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I'm seeing a very large increase in the number of people I meet who don't believe the whole thing. A year ago it was probably 99% acceptance, now I'd say that's down to maybe 50% and in freefall.
That clearly shows an increase in ice cover to my eyes...
Jeff,Hmmm. You sure you took off your rose tinted glasses first, Smurf? LOL
I class myself as a modest performer when it comes to completing the "Spot The Difference" photos in her mags...
So, here is a tagged copy of those same maps showing those areas that I can see have seen a significant REDUCTION in the concentration of sea ice since 1998 compared to the ONE area (denoted by green arrow at left) that appears to have gained.
There is also a massive decrease in the % concentration of an area near the pole itself - at about the 11 o'clock position - denoted by the change from purple/mauve (80-100%) to red (60-70%).
Sorry. But to MY eye these comparative pics show that the overall reduction in % of sea concentration since 1998 appears to be SIGNIFICANT - totally opposite to what you and Wayne are claiming! Oh, wait a minute... I just put on some rose tinted glasses. AMAZING - the whole map is now covered with sea ice!!!
PS: The green arrow pointing to the void near the centre of the pixc was supposed to be yellow! My bad...
AJ
"You don't have to become all emotional and speak about it because here is a photograph that very sensitively and articulately communicates it".
Andrew Chapman agrees it's a constantly evolving process and the final exhibition wont be ready until next year.
"I think it's the ebb and flow of what's happening out there right around the country. It's value as a collection of images will be there in 10 or 15 years when people look back on this period. Is it global warming? Is it a bad drought? I guess time will tell."
It's hoped Beyond Reasonable Drought will tour the country next year including Old Parliament House in Canberra, and organisers are still looking for contributors from drought affected parts of Western Australia and central western Queensland
Any photos from 1660?
gg
Killer cornflakes!
Damn headlines!
Just about put me off my favourite brekky...
until I read the whole story.
Speaking of jesting -Will 'killer cornflakes' be on our tables?
Rosemary Desmond | May 13, 2008 - 3:25PM
Climate change could lead to "killer cornflakes" with the cereal carrying the most potent liver toxin ever recorded, an environmental health conference has been told.
...
and you don't seem to realise that you yourselves are pawns of the oil industry (or if not - passing on their propaganda, Ball and co, scientific harlots)A couple of whom have proven track record - eg "smoking and lung cancer are unconnected" - yeah right - so, much were you paid for that "scientific opinion"?
Back to Singer and Ball - If you had a relative who died from smoking-related cancer AFTER Singer and Ball went in to bat so strongly (including financial gain) FOR the cigarette companies, would you say it's fair to call them scientific who-res? Or would you use a term like murderers?
Am I looking at it right? I mean, only the white area is actual ice I assume? Or is the purple, red etc also ice?Hmmm. You sure you took off your rose tinted glasses first, Smurf? LOL
I class myself as a modest performer when it comes to completing the "Spot The Difference" photos in her mags...
So, here is a tagged copy of those same maps showing those areas that I can see have seen a significant REDUCTION in the concentration of sea ice since 1998 compared to the ONE area (denoted by green arrow at left) that appears to have gained.
There is also a massive decrease in the % concentration of an area near the pole itself - at about the 11 o'clock position - denoted by the change from purple/mauve (80-100%) to red (60-70%).
Sorry. But to MY eye these comparative pics show that the overall reduction in % of sea concentration since 1998 appears to be SIGNIFICANT - totally opposite to what you and Wayne are claiming! Oh, wait a minute... I just put on some rose tinted glasses. AMAZING - the whole map is now covered with sea ice!!!
PS: The green arrow pointing to the void near the centre of the pixc was supposed to be yellow! My bad...
AJ
I have, both through work and as an individual, been involved on numerous occasions with emergencies of various kinds. Floods, fires, explosions, gas leaks, road accidents, workplace accidents, blackouts, structural collapse - I've been involved in the response to all of those....
no but here's the graphical projections that go back to 1660 (and some!) Incidentally 1660 was a cold period.
Firstly the "con" version put up in the show "the Great Global Warming Swindle" (it says - totally falsely - that "now" is less than the 1200's)
next with the graph where "now" REALLY means "now" !!
and projected into the (disturbingly near) future.
I can't understand why you blokes keep saying "check the money trail" to see if the talk of global warming ( by the likes of David Attenborough etc) is real or not ..
and you don't seem to realise that you yourselves are pawns of the oil industry (or if not - passing on their propaganda, Ball and co, scientific harlots)A couple of whom have proven track record - eg "smoking and lung cancer are unconnected" - yeah right - so, much were you paid for that "scientific opinion"? lol.
PS When you look at that graph - be aware that the IPCC plan is to TRY to limit the temp increase to only 2 deg rise -
and we do that by reducing the CO2e emissions by 1.9% per annum - PROVIDED we start NOW.
We wait 7 years - we have to reduce by about 2.5% per annum from memory.
[/U]
That being so, the calls to cut x% within 10 or 20 years are ridiculous - nobody is willing to support the measures needed to actually do it.
1. .... You pick the quickest option from the choices (if there are any) that are good enough to do the job.
2. Environmentalists are increasingly talking of a climate "emergency". Fair enough, that may well be the case. ..then it warrants urgent action
3. ...you'd have no choice but to build nuclear, hydro and wind to generate that power (nuclear being dominant).
4. I challenge anyone to come up with a plan that actually works (without collapsing the economy) that doesn't involve using more electricity and getting that electricity from nuclear, hydro and wind. You can do it in 50 years for sure, but if that's adequate then it's not a real emergency.
5. But environmentalists oppose all of these. .. Instead we hear calls to "go solar" ... too little, too late.
6. Hence I don't believe that the majority of environmentalists (or the general public) believes we have or are headed for an emergency with the climate. A long term problem requiring a long term solution maybe - that's what their actions are pushing for. But few if any are talking about action in the context of an emergency here and now.
7. That being so, the calls to cut x% within 10 or 20 years are ridiculous - nobody is willing to support the measures needed to actually do it.
Smurf, having no power invested in me to do so I hereby declare this as the best thread of the Month.
And there is no more that I can add.
Cheers explod
On the money - completely.And so that's my point. Either we need to take drastic action or we don't. And if we need to take drastic action then we're stuck with nuclear reactors, flooded valleys and not being able to get around without seeing wind turbines as the consequence. If we had 30 years to start then we can likely avoid doing those things, but we've got no choice if it's urgent.
No easy options unfortunately - that's the inherent problem of energy.
Q1. Is the problem real or not? Not the warming as such, but the consequences thereof.
Q2. Is it necessary to make a significant reduction in emissions compared to business as usual (that is, growth in emissions) within the next 30 years?
Q3. Is the scale of the necessary reduction such that emissions would, in 30 years time, need to be reduced below present levels? (As opposed to simply slowing the rate of growth).
Answer.
4. If the answer to the above 3 questions is all "yes" then from a practical perspective there's really only one course of action available. And that is ...no new fossil fuel power stations of any type to be built.
5. ...... This means building nuclear power stations in Australia. It means .. wind farms, .. And it means building more hydro-electric dams, ...
6. .. If we had 20 or 30 years before ending emissions growth then there's all sorts of things we could do without needing nuclear or wind power.
7. But if it's urgent then nuclear, hydro and wind it is. Sometime in the future, we can swap nuclear with geothermal and wind with solar thermal for new plant construction. ...
Technically it's very doable if properly planned and the economics would likely be tolerable if the rest of the world is likewise acting to reduce emissions.
..
And so that's my point. Either we need to take drastic action or we don't.
With present technology either we have significant hydro in the grid or we have significant fossil fuels. It doesn't work with reasonable efficiency to be 100% nuclear and intermittent sources (wind etc). Even 100% coal is problematic - it's always more efficient to add some hydro.5, 6, and 7. ..let's go nuclear - and forget the hydro - too much flaming methane
thanks smurf,We're not going to run the whole country on hydro that's for sure. But it's a vital component of any move to a non-fossil grid due to the flexibility and storage it can provide.
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