Global Warming - How Valid and Serious?

[The Ferret]

I just wake up to 4 inches of snow cover here in Cheltenham. The neighbors are throwing snowballs at each other. lol

6th April, Mid Spring nearly.

Wait for it! I can hear the pro-GW crowd now...

Oh, it's another example of weather unpredictablity caused by GW. Yet another clear example of GW..lol

 

[2020hindsight]

no
ferret you're wrong
you see, it isn't a mono-step rise, whereby one summer it's 14.62degC, and the next it's 14.63 or 14.64 or whatever.
It doesn't work like that.

Furthermore what happens in UK is not representative of Australia, (or the world), is it.
That's not a question, btw, it's a statement.

So why not spend a bit of time observing all the climatic trends happening here in Aus yes?
Now that is a question.

btw, maybe spend a moment contemplating that a lot of forest has been cleared this year ( this clock suggests 3.4 thousand hectares)

and a lot of species have been lost (7000 this year ) .

I 'd take those numbers with a couple of kilos of salt -
but rest assured there is a trend to lesser forest, and fewer species yes?

PS that's another question - not that I expect you to care .

 

[The Ferret]

no
ferret you're wrong
you see, it isn't a mono-step rise, whereby one summer it's 14.62degC, and the next it's 14.63 or 14.64 or whatever.
It doesn't work like that.

Furthermore what happens in UK is not representative of Australia, (or the world), is it.
That's not a question, btw, it's a statement.

So why not spend a bit of time observing all the climatic trends happening here in Aus yes?
Now that is a question.

LOL! Ha ha.... thank you 2020.. thankyou.

It's like shooting fish in a barrel....... classic....

 

[2020hindsight]

Here's the "snapshot" at 11 Jan this year for comparison

http://www.poodwaddle.com/worldclock.swf

PS 86 days ago, or 12.3 weeks if you prefer)

 

[2020hindsight]

LOL! Ha ha.... thank you 2020.. thankyou.

It's like shooting fish in a barrel....... classic....

hey ferret
don't take on those fish in a mind duel whatever you do !!
you might end up going "glub glub"

 

[Pronto]

This was quoted in Tim Blair's blog today. It's by Nigel Lawson in the UK Daily Mail on 5/4/08...

Those who wish to order us how to run our lives, faced with the uncomfortable evidence that economic prosperity is more likely to be achieved by less government intervention rather than more, naturally welcome the emergence of a new licence to intrude, to interfere, to tax and to regulate: all in the great cause of saving the planet from the alleged horrors of global warming ...

People still feel the need for the comfort and higher values that religion can provide; and it is the quasi-religion of green alarmism, of which the global warming issue is the most striking example, which has filled the vacuum, with reasoned questioning of its mantras regarded as little short of sacrilege.

Just about sums it up for me.

 

[--B--]

This was quoted in Tim Blair's blog today. It's by Nigel Lawson in the UK Daily Mail on 5/4/08...

Those who wish to order us how to run our lives, faced with the uncomfortable evidence that economic prosperity is more likely to be achieved by less government intervention rather than more, naturally welcome the emergence of a new licence to intrude, to interfere, to tax and to regulate: all in the great cause of saving the planet from the alleged horrors of global warming ...

People still feel the need for the comfort and higher values that religion can provide; and it is the quasi-religion of green alarmism, of which the global warming issue is the most striking example, which has filled the vacuum, with reasoned questioning of its mantras regarded as little short of sacrilege.

Just about sums it up for me.

absolutely.

 

[metric]

This was quoted in Tim Blair's blog today. It's by Nigel Lawson in the UK Daily Mail on 5/4/08...

Those who wish to order us how to run our lives, faced with the uncomfortable evidence that economic prosperity is more likely to be achieved by less government intervention rather than more, naturally welcome the emergence of a new licence to intrude, to interfere, to tax and to regulate: all in the great cause of saving the planet from the alleged horrors of global warming ...

People still feel the need for the comfort and higher values that religion can provide; and it is the quasi-religion of green alarmism, of which the global warming issue is the most striking example, which has filled the vacuum, with reasoned questioning of its mantras regarded as little short of sacrilege.

Just about sums it up for me.

me too.

 

[--B--]

no
ferret you're wrong
you see, it isn't a mono-step rise, whereby one summer it's 14.62degC, and the next it's 14.63 or 14.64 or whatever.
It doesn't work like that.

what are you talking about here 2020?

you seem confused.

ferret rightly pointed out the ridiculous claims by those pushing the AGW barrow that anything happening in the weather is caused by catastrophic climate change. whether it gets hotter or colder.. its the perfect win win.

no mention of the fact that the whole theory is based on co2 trapping heat in the atmosphere.

Furthermore what happens in UK is not representative of Australia, (or the world), is it.
That's not a question, btw, it's a statement.

well youre right there

So why not spend a bit of time observing all the climatic trends happening here in Aus yes?
Now that is a question.

its called "global" warming

btw, maybe spend a moment contemplating that a lot of forest has been cleared this year ( this clock suggests 3.4 thousand hectares)

lol. is that a valid source? please.

i dont dispute your claim however fail to see how its relevant to this argument other than the simplistic "trees eat co2" doozy.

and a lot of species have been lost (7000 this year ) .

can you please provide any credible evidence to back this up?

I 'd take those numbers with a couple of kilos of salt -
but rest assured there is a trend to lesser forest, and fewer species yes?

i think you might be getting a little sidetracked 2020.

we all know forests are getting chopped down. they are also being replanted. as for species becoming extinct, please show me some credible evidence.

regardless of these two quite odd tnagents youve gone on, the fact remains that the AGW theory is entirely up for debate and ferret is 100% correct in his statement above.

 

[2020hindsight]

i think you might be getting a little sidetracked 2020.

we all know forests are getting chopped down. they are also being replanted. as for species becoming extinct, please show me some credible evidence.

article in the 22Mar08 copy of NewScientist - a real win-win.
titled "Saved? It sounds like a great idea: pay people to stop destroying the rainforest and you'll stave off cliamte change too. "

It goes on to say ..
"reducing deforestation is the cheapest way of cutting global emissions. At about $10 per tonne of CO2 it works out at around half the cost of replacing coal with renewable energy" . etc

buy yourself a copy.

 

[--B--]

article in the 22Mar08 copy of NewScientist - a real win-win.
titled "Saved? It sounds like a great idea: pay people to stop destroying the rainforest and you'll stave off cliamte change too. "

It goes on to say ..
"reducing deforestation is the cheapest way of cutting global emissions. At about $10 per tonne of CO2 it works out at around half the cost of replacing coal with renewable energy" . etc

buy yourself a copy.

so youve got nothing?

thought so.

 

[2020hindsight]

so youve got nothing?

thought so.

-B-
(see below)
you're asking me to justify the numbers on that website? (the clock?)
why don't you write to them?
let us know which "stats" they are referring to.

I said take the detailed numbers with a kilo of salt, yes.
you know what that means?
means I don't think they're necessarily very accurate. (maybe?)

and they only get 0.01 deg per year at that rate, which is a damned site more optimistic that the most optimistic scenario by IPCC. (at least the ones being seriously considered).
So sure - I also reckon that site is "dreaming".

PS - ahh found this. .. temp "somewhere between 1.1deg and 6.4 degC" - so they pick 1.1deg.

 

[2020hindsight]

-B-
are you also in denial that the forests of the world are being cut down (or that species are being lost) at an alarming rate?

are you asking me to prove that as well?

 

[Wysiwyg]

2020 my friend, don`t you get what the ferret is trying to say?The majority don`t give two hoots.Human way is much talk and little action.Too little too late.It is sad but true and we can only remind people and do conscientious work.

There is the circle of life which we are part of and swept along with little regard for much more than getting money and sex.

 

[wayneL]

2020 my friend, don`t you get what the ferret is trying to say?The majority don`t give two hoots.Human way is much talk and little action.Too little too late.It is sad but true and we can only remind people and do conscientious work.

There is the circle of life which we are part of and swept along with little regard for much more than getting money and sex.

I reckon quite a few more would give a hoot if:

• It was a real issue instead of the now transparent fraud it now is.
• If those who mouthed off the most didn't hypocritically have enourmous carbon footprints. (like Al Boring)
• If they targeted the real polluters instead of putting the onus on Joe Sixpack, who is a minor player and can't make much difference.
• If the official GW protagonists, didn't so obviously have their snouts in the public money trough.
• If rational objections weren't demonized as heretics by so called scientists.
• If data wasn't so subject to selection bias.
• If the like of China and other major polluters were subject to the same controls.

... to name a few.

People are smart enough to realize either:

• It's BS with an alternative agenda
• If it's real, we can't stop it... eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die.

Meanwhile, me and missus are playing in April snow.

TIP: Wear very thick and warm gloves when riding your pushbike in snowy weather.

 

[2020hindsight]

2020 my friend, don`t you get what the ferret is trying to say?The majority don`t give two hoots.Human way is much talk and little action.Too little too late.It is sad but true and we can only remind people and do conscientious work.

There is the circle of life which we are part of and swept along with little regard for much more than getting money and sex.

wys
had a good week last week. met a few of the US scientists on the radio telescope project.
btw, they say that , US being the "Conspiracy Centre of the world", that sure enough, someone has come up with a theory that GW is a conspiracy developed by the weather channel .

wayne,
I was hoping you'd back me on the loss of forest etc at least. You sure you're a card carrying greenie?

To be honest, that's what Johnny Howard wanted to do - just happens to be in that magazine I mentioned (NewScientist). Don't tell the blokes round here though that it was Johnny's idea .

 

[wayneL]

Taking some forest can be justified in certain instances.

Where I have the challenge is:

When virgin forest is is taken to make consumables or cheap tat (e.g. woodchipping for paper or SE Asian rainforest to make utterly crap furniture that will end up on the tip in 5 years)
When it is taken to fill the guts of the adipose US hamburger consumer (eg The Amazon rainforest to graze Burger King cattle)
When it is taken and the resultant environment is unsustainable and never was going to be sustainable. (eg the Burger King cattle ranches that subsequently cannot sustain the cattle because of soil quality)
When it threatens the survival of species. (eg Orangutans )

I could rant on forever, but it gets me seriously depressed.

Like I keep saying, CO2 is the wroooooong focus.

 

[Smurf1976]

The following appears on Page 16 of the current edition of Warm magazine "Green Issue".

Warm is an electricity industry publication delivered free to everyone in Tas, not available elsewhere but www.warm.com.au is the website - this article doesn't seem to be there however.

The Australian Conservation Foundation was involved with this so it's not a one sided power industry view. And of course the ACF and the Tas electricity industry are opponents from way back.

Construction and renovations 13.1%
Electricity 0.1%
Gas and firewood 1.9%
Other household operations 2.7%
Transport 12.6%
Food 30.6%
Clothing and fabrics 4.1%
Furniture and appliances 4.4%
Books and magazines 2.9%
All other goods and services 27.1%
(Figures do not add to 100% due to rounding)

It's based on consumption, not local production, so reflects the consumption of goods and isn't biased by the types of industries operating in Tas (other than that power generation is very low emission).

Bottom line - changing a few light bulbs won't help much. If you're really worried then don't have children (since they'll need food) and don't renovate anything unless it really needs replacing (that is, don't change just because of some fashion trend).

 

[wayneL]

FYI

Climate change confirmed but global warming is cancelled
Owen McShane

Unlike so many of the hapless victims on TVOne's daily Crimewatch (also known as One Network News) I have recently been lucky enough to be in two right places at the right time.

In December last year, at the UN conference in Bali, I heard Viscount Monckton present a paper prepared by himself, the Australian Dr David Evans and our own Dr Vincent Gray (who were at Bali, too) that showed while the IPCC models predict that greenhouse gases would produce an extensive "hot spot" in the upper troposphere over the tropics, the satellite measurements show no such hotspots have appeared.

Monckton and Evans found a large part of this discrepancy is the result of some basic errors in the IPCC's assessment of the Stefan-Boltzmann equation. When they applied their revised factor to the effect of greenhouse gases, the temperature rise was about a third of that predicted by the IPCC.

So by late last year we not only knew IPCC forecasts of atmospheric global warming were wrong.......... FULL ARTICLE

 

[2020hindsight]

Well we are at last starting to generate some serious (semi-serious) solar powered electricity.
Wouldn't it be appropriate if the airconditioners (at least) were run by solar - the hotter it gets, the more power available

Australia's biggest planned for Coober Pedy (SA)

http://news.theage.com.au/coober-pedy-to-get-solar-power-station/20080219-1syj.html

Coober Pedy to get solar power station
February 19, 2008 - 12:42PM
Australia's largest solar power station is to be built at Coober Pedy, in South Australia's mid-north, to provide more than 10 per cent of the city's electricity needs.

Federal Environment Minister Peter Garrett said the $7.1 million project would feature 26 solar dishes, each one 14 metres high, to produce 1,860 megawatt hours of power each year.

Coober Pedy was chosen because it is not connected to the electricity grid and gets all its power from diesel generators.

The solar power station will cut diesel use in the town by 520,000 litres, saving 1,500 tonnes of greenhouse gases.

Mr Garrett described the project as groundbreaking and an example of the federal government's commitment to a clean energy future.

The federal government will provide $3.55 million for the station with other funding coming from the state government and private industry.

South Australian Premier Mike Rann said the project would consolidate the state's reputation as a leader in renewable energy initiatives.

Meanwhile, Qld, NT, ACT etc ....

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national...the-solar-block/2007/11/04/1194117879767.html

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=solar+power+hermannsburg&btnG=Search&meta=

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/18/2192956.htm

PS wow - 1,860 megawatt hours of power each year. = enough to run 600 plasma screens (at 350 watts) 24 / 7 - or maybe that should read 1800 plasma screens for about 8 sunny hours per day (?). Maybe people should get more social ? - and maybe share plasma screens (?) - and airconditioners etc.
otherwise $7 million doesn't go very far.

E&OE