Global Warming - How Valid and Serious?

[wayneL]

Yes, robust debate is one thing, even criticizing a behaviour can be tolerated, but direct ad hominem insult in quite another.

 

[2020hindsight]

well wayne
here are some quotes/ references to Suzuki on this thread.
Perhaps you can see why I'm confused at least.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=237706&highlight=suzuki#post237706

I'll tell you one educator who has my utmost respect - David Suzuki. That man walks the walk and has done for as long as I can remember. Where's his peace prize?

Then numbercruncher posted this link :-
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=257397&highlight=suzuki#post257397

http://www.nationalpost.com/most_popular/story.html?id=290513

Jail politicians who ignore climate science: Suzuki

David Suzuki has called for political leaders to be thrown in jail for ignoring the science behind climate change.

you respond with …

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=257461&highlight=suzuki#post257461

I'll forgive Suzuki's muppetry on AGW because as a zoologist, he knows SFA about climate; and he does other great environmental work.

Are you saying you know more than him about GW?
or that you now prefer some other scientific opinion?

 

[2020hindsight]

It also reveals your tender age.... most people learn this very early on.

sorry daddy
PS thanks for the compliment lol

 

[2020hindsight]

PS I agree with him !

http://www.nationalpost.com/most_popular/story.html?id=290513

 

[wayneL]

well wayne
here are some quotes/ references to Suzuki on this thread.
Perhaps you can see why I'm confused at least.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=237706&highlight=suzuki#post237706



Then numbercruncher posted this link :-
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=257397&highlight=suzuki#post257397

http://www.nationalpost.com/most_popular/story.html?id=290513



you respond with …

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=257461&highlight=suzuki#post257461



Are you saying you know more than him about GW?
or that you now prefer some other scientific opinion?

Not at all (thanks for destroying your own straw man argument BTW).

I do say however that there are climatologists who know more about climatology than a zoologist. At this point there are many dissenting voices in the field of climatology. There are many insurmountable hurdles... and downright contradictions in the AGW story to take it on board as a fact.

Meanwhile, while everyone is focusing on CO2, humans continue to pollute, rape and pillage the earth in a variety of other ways, which is being virtually ignored.

There are more pressing potential environmental catastrophes all around us. e Yet these receive virtually zero funding and attention, in comparison to AGW.

This is very very bad science IMO.

 

[2020hindsight]

ferret
here's one for youngsters to charge their mobile phones ..
(all as per link I posted back there)

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/02/080207-power-walking.html

Inspector Gadget, take note: Researchers have created a knee brace that converts the energy from a walker's stride into electricity.

Results from the device show that if the clumsy cartoon character wore a brace on each leg as he stumbled after his nemesis Dr. Claw, he'd easily generate five watts of electricity.

That's enough juice to power ten cell phones at once””or in the inspector's case, perhaps enough to keep his telescoping appendages functioning for an entire TV episode.

 

[2020hindsight]

There are many insurmountable hurdles...

wayne, The only hurdle I see is the apathy in some cases, the totally empty rhetoric that the non-green lobby come up with, and the stubborn refusal of many to act.

Are these insurmountable? Fortunately, mankind is slowly pulling his head out of the sand and becoming a bit more aware on green issues. (IMO). Fortunately in Aus at least, the people (and hence the politicians) are becoming greener with every election/ parliament.

ferret . It has got to the point where only 7% of Aussies think we shouldn't have signed Kyoto. So arguably what you think is not all that relevant I guess. Even this poll has about 83% in favour of action (by the worst reading of thoses stats). - and this poll goes back way before Bali.

Who knows, maybe even USA will sign Kyoto one day.
As they say, the are going metric as well .... "inch by inch"

PS I'd prefer to be shot as the messenger than like this bloke.

Seems to me you blokes want to argue whether or not the gun is loaded.
I argue that the wise thing to do is "extract one's head from the barrel"

(PS I also believe , along with IPCC, that the gun is loaded btw - but sometimes you have to resort to EVEN IF.... THEN... argument)

 

[wayneL]

The only hurdle I see is the apathy in some cases, the totally empty rhetoric that the non-green lobby come up with, and the stubborn refusal of many to act.

So you're talking about Al bore and his cronies here, yes? Lots of rhetoric and SFA on the action.

Only one way to get the respect of the plebeians and henceforth, action... lead by example. a woeful failure there.

Are these insurmountable? Fortunately, mankind is slowly pulling his head out of the sand and becoming a bit more aware on green issues. (IMO)

Awareness does not equate to action. For instance, you yourself are vociferously aware, yet do very little, by your own admission.

Who knows, maybe even USA will sign Kyoto one day.
As they say, the are going metric as well .... "inch by inch"

Kyoto? IF AGW is real.... pffft.... Too little, too late.

Give me some real action on pollution and environmental degradation, not this politically expedient, possibly fictional scare mongering.

 

[2020hindsight]

Awareness does not equate to action. For instance, you yourself are vociferously aware, yet do very little, by your own admission.

evidence?
whence this admission?
other than I wish I could do more.

At least I support the cause on chatrooms.

 

[Smurf1976]

Fortunately, mankind is slowly pulling his head out of the sand and becoming a bit more aware on green issues. (IMO). Fortunately in Aus at least, the people (and hence the politicians) are becoming greener with every election/ parliament.

I'd personally prefer sustainability over "green" any day. The latter is simply a brand of politics along with Liberal, Labor, Democrat etc. Green doesn't necessarily mean sustainable.

 

[2020hindsight]

George Carlin on Global Warning

lol, man's a genius

the first 3.5 mins he hams it up - but finally gets to the point ...

3m45s
the planet isn't going anywhere folk - we are...
planet will still be here - we'll be long gone - just another failed mutation-
just another closed end biological mistake...
the planet will shake us off like a bad case of fleas - a surface nuisance...

the planet will be here for a long long time after we are gone
it will heal itself, it will cleanse itself, ...
the air and the water will recover..
and in the end there's just Earth and ..plastic.

could be the reason the Earth allowed us to be spawned from it in the first place
it wanted plastic for itself
didn't klnow how to make it. - needed us.
5m 50s could be the answer to our age old question "Why are we here?"
"PLASTIC Assholes"

6m 00s To be fair the planet probably sees us as a mild threat, something to be dealt with. I'm sure the planet will defend itself in the manner of a large organism like a beehive or an ant colony.

 

[explod]

I'd personally prefer sustainability over "green" any day. The latter is simply a brand of politics along with Liberal, Labor, Democrat etc. Green doesn't necessarily mean sustainable.

I think that is a good observation and has me thinking about identifying what is not sustainable:

Current population growth,

Use of the current type of transport,

Current energy generation, coal,

They all have to be curbed and in some cases stopped.

The next question is HOW?

 

[2020hindsight]

I'd personally prefer sustainability over "green" any day. The latter is simply a brand of politics along with Liberal, Labor, Democrat etc. Green doesn't necessarily mean sustainable.

ok smurf - I hear you - and knowing where you come from on this.

gotta feelin I used the same term about 10 posts back ...
describing Bali as "a worldwide movement to recognise that man is exploiting this planet in an unsustainable manner ..?"

you agree with that description?

 

[wayneL]

I think that is a good observation and has me thinking about identifying what is not sustainable:

Current population growth,

Use of the current type of transport,

Current energy generation, coal,

They all have to be curbed and in some cases stopped.

The next question is HOW?

The first step is to convince people to change their lifestyle.

Unfortunately, that's the last thing gu'mint and the bankers want. Our whole monetary system relies on perpetual growth to survive... That means encouraging people to spend in ever increasing multiples; on anything, cars, plasma TVs, cheap plastic crap toys, disposable nappies, preposterously packages trivialities... anything.

While that prevails there is Buckley's chance, unless by some miracle another power source other than fossil fuels becomes viable... in time.

 

[treefrog]

The first step is to convince people to change their lifestyle.

Unfortunately, that's the last thing gu'mint and the bankers want. Our whole monetary system relies on perpetual growth to survive... That means encouraging people to spend in ever increasing multiples; on anything, cars, plasma TVs, cheap plastic crap toys, disposable nappies, preposterously packages trivialities... anything.

While that prevails there is Buckley's chance, unless by some miracle another power source other than fossil fuels becomes viable... in time.

used to work in gu'mint - get paid more the more inefficient u are at your job:
start with self + 4 subs and do a,b,and c.
"Boss how about a pay rise, we are doing all this abc quite well and have let one fellow go so now self +3?"
"sorry mate pay depends on how many you have working for you"
so we spend 50% of our time writing subs why we need more staff and in 3 years have self +7 and a pay rise
and the rules of gu'mint never alter - don't change the system or we get less

like someone posted on another thread today - ignore the elephant in the room - for GW the elephant is population growth - the other issues energy, environment, cars etc very difficult issues but can be addressed, but please tell me how we sort the overpopulation thing

 

[explod]

Population is big on all fronts.

First one is religion, Catholic Church mantra from above apparently, "suffer the litle children and bring them unto me"

Instinctive right/urge, men and women to procreate.

Gummints need cannon fodder for war and drones to carry out the work for the rich.


Being gay is neaurological so perhaps ways to increase this gene may help.

The real change of attitude required will be enormous. Education (complete) is the only solution and that is why I admire people Like Gates/Buffet and many other very wealthy for puting most of thier fortunes into education.

The numbers of people on the web now, (China has just surpassed the US) could hold a key.

I admit that my own learning has gone through the roof since I got connected. (Not that I know much) but you know.

 

[2020hindsight]

If you want to cut world population, you need to do what the Chinese have done I guess - with the "one child policy" ...

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=74443&highlight=chinese#post74443

... the Chinese have "opted" not to have the odd 300million people - "about the size of the U.S. population" - since introducing this policy.

Then again - anything we achieve here is trivial compared to what China has achieved (and more yet to be achieved?)
India too.
Africa likewise has crazy population growth.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=74755&highlight=chinese#post74755

"1.48 billion people in the year 2038. "
When you write this you are tempted to round it off to 1.5 billion.
Then you realise that that is 20 million more than 1.48bill.
i.e. Australia's entire population is just an inconsequential rounding error to the Chinese. Still let's see how many gold medals we get in Beijing.

 

[Julia]

Can you give the evidence for saying "being gay is neurological " (presumably that's what you meant?) and explain in more detail what such a neurological diagnosis actually means?

 

[explod]

Can you give the evidence for saying "being gay is neurological " (presumably that's what you meant?) and explain in more detail what such a neurological diagnosis actually means?

It is called gender inversion where it turns out for example that gay men have female brain structures. A long time ago now, but did a unit at Uni called "Sex, gender and society" where we went into the various facits of it. I am no expert in biology but feel sure if you Google the subject you could get more depth.

Of course there is a lot of opposition to the findings and a very controversial subject at that.

Probably a poor choice of option in my post, a bit like Hitler working towards a Master Race. But always good to throw in all shaped pebbles to bring things out.

we desperately need to strip the bones bare to indentify some/any worthwhile direction on what we are to do about climate change IMHO

Cheers explod

 

[2020hindsight]

The other way to help reduce the population - particularly in Africa, - would be (dah) to educate the womem (and the Pope?) about contraception (amongst other things). I believe they run at 3% increase per annum. - interspersed with horrific "corrections" It's just not the way a sensible God would carry on. (imo)