Gay Marriage

[krisbarry]

I love women and their body parts. I also love their ways. Why? Because I am a man. It is natural for me to think that way.

Marriage is for a man and a woman. The sooner we realise this we will be a better nation.

Two women having sex is good for visual stimulation, but should not be confused with unions or marriage. Two men having sex is pure disgusting and self degrading. Once men cross this line they have no soul left.

I have gay friends and show them consideration as a human, but thats where it stops. Beyond that they make me vomit with their cheek pecking and filth talk and straight bashing.

Snake

Ohhhh your outlook on life so 1984

 

[Prospector]

How about posters state their sexual preference.

Got the Guts ! :sheep:

I'll start then, I'm heterosex'ual .

Bob.

Already done that Bobby - but only because it makes my argument more objective and not because it concerns me greatly.....

 

[Prospector]

Prospector,
why is he fighting through the courts if it was left to him in Don`s will.And if the will can be argued over,what kind of legal advice did he get?Should`nt his lawyer have forseen these difficulties and advised accordingly.

P.S googled him and it says that he was married twice but only mentions a male friend in relation to a restaurant,is he the one?

Yep, he's the one visual! Superannuation funds (and I believe this was his Government funded one) have these rules that you must be a dependant (ie non adult child) or spouse before you can claim them. The will is irrelevant if the person's name hasnt been included in the super trust deed, and also, even if you are named in the trust deed then unless you are either a dependent or spouse, you also have to pay 15% tax on the lump sum when the person receives it.

Don also had adult children so this is where it gets complicated, but I believe they accepted their father's relationship.

The legal people should have seen that he was named on the super fund, but the 15% is a Tax and because he was never able to be called a 'spouse' then he will always have to pay the 15% tax bill.

 

[Prospector]

I have had two experiences of children growing in a gay household.

In both relationships, the two women started off their married life in a heterosexual relationship and there were children born. Those heterosexual marriages ended, and in both cases a female homsexual relationship began.

In the first relationship there were 2 female children growing up, in the second relationship there was a single male child. In both cases, the children are now aged around 16 - 20 years of age, and they were around 6 years of age when the homsexual relationships started.

The kids are doing just fine - doing well at school/Uni. Have a normal group of friends. Not getting into trouble.

We all know children who come from 'normal' relationships that sour and the kids go off the rails. Kids go off the rails in completely happy families too.

There is no rule for raising happy healthy kids other than love and lots of luck.

 

[Knobby22]

I think however that it is important that there is a male influence somewhere, whether it be a grandparent, the father or a family friend, especially for a boy particuarly if they are single children. The situation for single mums is often worse than a lesbian couple.

 

[Prospector]

Knobby - couldn't agree with you more - the lack of male role models will have a dreadful effect on children raised in single female households - and I believe is a fundamental issue in why we have so many disenfranchised male youths at the moment. Total generalisation but I believe that lesbian marriages understand this better than many single mothers, and try to involve male influences in their kids lives.


Also, correcting myself here - Don's partner didnt have Superannuation issues (he died before Super was such a big deal) it was his Parliamentary Pension (and he was Premier so no doubt it is very generous!). Because he was never regarded as a spouse he cant get access to the Pension that spouses are entitled to.

OK, work to do I am outta here....

 

[bullmarket]

Hi kennas

I'll put my thoughts in red fwiw

Now, just to change tac a little and open another can of worms not specifically related to Al Qaeda - gay marrage.

Bob Brown was in parliament today arguing that gay marriage should be accepted because it is natural and just and should be a legitimate way for two loving, caring people to express their desire to live together for the rest of their lives, under the full legal auspices of the Australian constitution.

Now, the religious and not so religious out there will have vastly different opinions on this and it will be interesting to see how each camp plants their feet. I have the feeling that those out there following the Good Book will say, Holy Sheet, that is just not playing darts! While the athiests and agnostics will be mixed.

Assuming your Good Book = the Bible then the 4 gospels and "The Acts of the Apostles" in the New Testament clearly say that sexual activity between same sex couples is a huge no-no.......so I suppose it just boils down to whether we individually accept or reject what is taught in the Bible when we form opinions on this issue.

Me, I used to be homophobic because it is part of my cultural background but now I am more open minded. I am now leaning towards ANY relationship that is a permanement recognition of someones union with another to be judged as a 'marriage'. After all, marriage was not an invention of the church but it was an invention of the culture of the day. It was just a way of regulating society and making sure everything was ordered in some way. (Actaully, I am more cynical about marriage - I think men have used this as a way of 'capturing' virgin women). Somewhere along the way though, the church highjacked it and made it religiously ritualistic.

I agree marriage wasn't invented by the Church as it was spoken about by Jesus Christ in the Gospels. Basically He said that marriage is a life time union/commitment between a man and woman

Like you say kennas, people will generally fall into either the religious or non-religious camp on this issue and maybe some will try to straddle both by having a foot in both camps I fall into the religious camp on this issue.

cheers

bullmarket


I'm sure this is linked to Al Qaeda somehow.....

Admin note: This thread was split off from 'Al Qaeda': https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2913

 

[mit]

I think however that it is important that there is a male influence somewhere, whether it be a grandparent, the father or a family friend, especially for a boy particuarly if they are single children. The situation for single mums is often worse than a lesbian couple.

I agree. I think the problem can exist in male-female marriages as well and don't discount the issues with girls either.

I think for girls a father can give them a greater sense of self-worth than their mothers can.

For Boys I think that it is such things as "Joys of working the Shed". Why would you need to destroy public property if you can have fun making things. Also it is pushing the risk boundaries a little more than mothers would like (How many dads out there have ended a sentence with ".. but dont tell your mother". I think that a few scrapped knees and close calls can do a lot to push the message about risk limits than somebody saying don't do this or don't do that.

MIT

ps. Before I get in trouble please feel free to put quotes around Mother, Father, Son's and Daughters. I know that real people don't always match the traditional roles.

 

[Sean K]

Morning Bull,

Hey Prospector and Knobby, I agree with the male influence, but can't kids get that off Humphry B Bear and the Wiggles? he he

There are many ways to get the female and male influences in society, it doesn't have to be just in the household. Actually, think back to traditional single income families where the husband went out and slaved all day while the wife made house. Sometimes during the week, the kids would see Dad come in the door at night just in time to say goodbye. Some 'influence'. Although, I suppose he saw them on the weekends. And when the kids go to school, what's the % of made Primary teachers out there? Pretty darn low. Children in the past, and even the present, have less contact with men, even in hetrosexual relationships.

 

[Sean K]

Um, I did mean male primary school teachers!

 

[Knobby22]

Morning Bull,

Hey Prospector and Knobby, I agree with the male influence, but can't kids get that off Humphry B Bear and the Wiggles? he he

There are many ways to get the female and male influences in society, it doesn't have to be just in the household. Actually, think back to traditional single income families where the husband went out and slaved all day while the wife made house. Sometimes during the week, the kids would see Dad come in the door at night just in time to say goodbye. Some 'influence'. Although, I suppose he saw them on the weekends. And when the kids go to school, what's the % of made Primary teachers out there? Pretty darn low. Children in the past, and even the present, have less contact with men, even in hetrosexual relationships.

True, plenty of secondary male teachers though and as we can see in literature, plenty of influence.

Humphrey Bear is a typical male. Acts like a child half the time and can't put two words together :

 

[The Mint Man]

I dont care about what people do in regards to same sex relationships, its become more accepted these days as there are so many out there. Forinstance a couple of ladys that lived accross the road from me, they were in their 50's very successful, owned a restaurant that celebs used to go to etc.... the two blokes that run the canteen at my work... the list goes on.
Point is you dont have to look far these days to find em. I think the people that have the hardest time coming to terms with it are those that are either ignorant (couldnt even tell if their next door neighbour was gay) or those that live in places where it is unusual to see a gay couple.

marriage, hmm I dunno. Have to hav a think about that.
however if my above comment is anything to go off

its become more accepted these days as there are so many out there

then we will probably see it in my lifetime and it will probably be accepted.

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Ohhhh your outlook on life so 1984

Not really, just natural.

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Well Snake as I can't claim that why not tell me your experience ?


Bob.

Bob,

One has to run around the front to kiss it.

...and no it is not my experience.

 

[stockGURU]

I realize this is an old thread but I saw this on another forum and, even though its author is American and it refers to the gay marriage debate in America, thought it was worth repeating here:

We Are Your Neighbors.

I was sitting here watching the news tonight as I always do, when I saw that it was starting to happen again. Commentators preaching about the need to "save marriage" and to "protect children", and condemning "activist judges". The replaying of campaign ads by some Republican Candidates, proclaiming that the Constitution of the United States needs amended to "defend traditional families", foreshadows what's in store between now and the next election.

Every time the issue of gay marriage comes up, I start hearing people talk about the need to defend "family values". I used to think I knew what that phrase meant. I used to think it was something that I lived my life by. But politicians and television commentators say the way I live my life is anything but "family" and is void of any of the "values" they recognize as being important.

When I first started hearing these things during the last election, they made me angry. To be honest, they made me very angry. This time though, I just sat there in front of my television for a few minutes, and found myself getting emotional.

Don't people understand, that we are your neighbors?

I was born and raised in this town. I graduated from the local high school, and soon after I started up a business on main street. I was raised to be community oriented, and have always done my best to give back however I can. Whether it was volunteering at the Geriatric Center during my high school years, or making donations to local charities as a business owner, I've always been mindful of lessons taught to me by my mother growing up. She taught me that while you might not be able to change the world, you most certainly can make a huge difference in your own little corner of the universe.

It wasn't but a year after I graduated from High School that I met the person that would become my life partner. He's always been community oriented as well, and has worked as a Police Officer since before I even knew him. I had just turned 20 when we met, and he was 21. It's been 9 years now since the day that we first moved in together as a loving couple.

We support each other just like any "normal" couple that you might know. I balance the checkbook because he hates dealing with paperwork, and he cooks dinner because I burn things. I usually clean the bathroom because it's the thing he despises doing the most, and he folds the laundry because I can never seem to get the jeans to crease as well as he can. We care for each other if one should get a cold, we comfort each other through rough times, and we celebrate personal achievements and triumphs. We tell each other to make a wish on our birthdays before blowing out the candles, and buy that special little something we know the other would really like. Everyone's aware that life has its ups and downs, and my partner and I are there for each other through them all.

Our story is not a unique one. There are countless gay couples like us, living in towns like this one, all across the country. We want to love and care for each other, and we want to make a difference in the communities that we call home.

We of course can't be married, and it's something that I think about often. Not because either of us has any desire to don a white dress and prance down an aisle tossing rose peddles, but because we, well: Let me stop here and tell you about one of the things I fear most in life.

As I've mentioned, my partner is a Police Officer. If someone were to break into your home in the middle of the night, and you made a frantic call for help, it might very well be he that would be the one rushing to your house as fast as he could. He would be there to protect you, and to defend you and your family from someone that would seek do harm.

Now let's say the unthinkable were to happen, and while trying to protect you, while trying to protect your family, he got shot. It's a scene that replays itself across this country all the time, and while I try to keep it distant in my mind, I know that danger exists. It's why every day as he leaves for work I give him a big hug, feeling to make sure his bulletproof vest is on right. It's why I never let him leave home without first telling him that I love him, and to be safe. Anyone reading this who has a loved one that’s a Police Officer, or a Fireman, or is a member of our Armed Services, knows the feeling well.

If that unthinkable were to ever happen, and I got “the call”, I would want to do what any loving partner would do. I would want to run to the hospital to be with him, to hold his hand and tell him that I love him and that everything's going to be OK. If he weren't able to talk, I would want to be able to give the doctors permission to perform whatever tests, or treatments, or surgery they felt he needed . I would want to be there looking over him every minute to see he was getting the best of care, and to comfort him. His job may be to protect all of you, but in his time of need, my job is to protect him.

Unfortunately, in this country today, those are rights that I do not have as his partner.

If the very worst were to occur, and he should die from those injuries, I would want to care for my partner in death. I would want to see that he was treated with dignity and respect, is remembered as the incredible person he is, and that he is given a proper burial next to a place reserved for me when my time comes.

Those too are rights that I do not have as his partner.

I would want to stay in our dream home, to be surrounded by my memories of the times we shared together. If we were married, I would inherit "his half" of the house tax free. But we are not married, and many loving gay couples lose their homes every year because they can’t afford to pay the death taxes due after their partner dies. In the eyes of the law, my partner and I are strangers.

If the worst doesn’t happen, and my partner and I live our dreams of retiring and growing old together, there are a whole host of other challenges we will need to overcome. From our inability to get a family medical insurance plan to our lack of survivor benefits, the list of difficulties aging gay couples face is enormous.

In fact, there are over 1,000 federal laws and benefits that exist to help married couples care for and protect one another. None of those protections are available to gay couples. We are forced instead to spend thousands upon thousands of dollars having legal documents drawn up, to try and provide some meager protections for our relationships. "Powers of Attorney", "Trusts", "Living Wills", "Health Care Surrogate Contracts", the list goes on and on. None of these are legal documents that were originally designed for couples. They are often easily challenged in court by third parties, and provide none of the local, state, or federal protections that any “normal” couple is granted by taking thirty minutes and spending $50 for a marriage license down at their local courthouse.

To make things even more challenging for us, many of the laws and amendments that politicians and commentators are currently touting would deny us even those very few slapstick protections that we are able to achieve through various contracts today. While no one can ever legislate away the love that I have for my partner, they are working to make it virtually impossible for my partner and I to legally provide for our relationship.

We are a team, my partner and I, and no matter what we will continue to do whatever it takes to care for one another. Overcoming social stigmas, stereotypes, discrimination, and an army of legal hurdles just adds to the stress of everyday life. While I try to always be steady in my resolve, sometimes I just wish others weren’t always working to make it so difficult for me to love someone.

I will never understand why so many people currently think that my partner and I are a "threat to marriage", or why they feel a constitutional amendment needs to be passed banning gay marriage to "protect children". I will never understand what these "traditional families" are that they believe I'm out to destroy, and I'm starting to believe that the "values" that they talk of will always remain a mystery to me as well.

All I know to do is be true to who I am, live a life that feels right to live, care for the person that I deeply love, and contribute to a community that has helped to raise me. As for ever being able to marry my partner, I am left with little choice but to keep being patient. I am waiting for the day that people in this country wake up one morning and realize I am not your enemy, and that I'm not out to destroy your lives or civilization as we know it. I'm here to lend a hand to you anyway that I can, because after all, that's what neighbors are supposed to do.

 

[Logique]

Back on the federal political agenda, thanks to the Greens. Looking forward to my local MP knocking on my door to ask my opinion, in line with Green MP Adam Bandt's legislated wishes.

I'm with Tony Windsor to this extent: as long as it's not compulsory.

One of those things that in a human sense, initially seems ok, but what does deeper consideration reveal? My fear that this, in the eyes of some, is yet another attempt to re-model our society, attacking our values in the process.

Our society is based on man+woman = marriage. It's served us pretty well hasn't it.

But baby bonuses have become paid maternity leave, and how long before IVF ends up being Medicare claimable? Reducing men to little more than sperm donors. With the perks of legalized marriage thrown in, father-less families will have it sown up.

There are feminazis out there who will rejoice in the further marginalizing of men in our society.

 

[sails]

...Our society is based on man+woman = marriage. It's served us pretty well hasn't it....

How people choose to live is entirely their own choice.

What concerns me is the fact that often same sex couples who seek marriage will then want to raise children with their new marriage status. This brings a whole new element, IMO, as the children they either adopt or have by some other means may not be thrilled at being a child with same sex parents. These children have no choice.

Two of my grandkids have had a difficult family life since their dads left. It doesn't matter how old they get, they yearn for their own Mum AND Dad in their life. I know because the oldest one (11) talks to me about all sorts of things. She gets on with life, but from time to time, she has her moments of sadness and just wishes with all her heart that things could be different in her family.

The little one is three and so many of her imaginery games are about families (mum and dad being the foundation). She becomes distraught for her Dad who doesn't seem interested at this point in time. He comes and goes in her life which makes it emotionally difficult for her.

It is amazing how, at such an early age, children seem to have a clear instinctive need for THEIR Mum and Dad. IMO, it raises concerns for children lumped into gay families. What happens to these natural instincts? What sort of teasing would they have to endure at school?

Just changing laws to suit the grown-ups doesn't necessarily mean that it is in the best interests of future children to gay couples.

 

[explod]

That last post of yours sails is spot on. I left my wife and three children when the youngest was 18 years and had a job. It has effected them and still does big time and with one I have no relationship though I work on it all the time. Its 17 years now since.

Although I still feel I had to go I do regret not trying harder to stay and work something out. Mid life crisis or wet behind the ears but huge damage that can never be made right.

Gay mariage not problems on its own, in fact post 18 years the laws ought to allow total freedom to all consenting adults in this and many other issues.

 

[drsmith]

Back on the federal political agenda, thanks to the Greens. Looking forward to my local MP knocking on my door to ask my opinion, in line with Green MP Adam Bandt's legislated wishes.

Should my local MP knocking on my door to ask my opinion, I might suggest he drop his strides and bend over.

Should he comply, it would be my right boot that would swing into action.

While people should have the right to live the lifestyle they choose, marriage is between a couple of opposite sex.

 

[explod]

Should my local MP knocking on my door to ask my opinion, I might suggest he drop his strides and bend over.

Should he comply, it would be my right boot that would swing into action.

While people should have the right to live the lifestyle they choose, marriage is between a couple of opposite sex.

Marriage is a promise backed up by a peice of paper. Unless the heart is there it is no more than rubbish. If people of the same sex want to have such a ceremony why not the right, they pay taxes and support the state the same as you do.

Dictating to others is totalitarianism.

Time to grow up and concentrate on things that really matter, education of women and controls on the worlds birthrate