Gay Marriage

[ICdeadppl]

One good thing to come from Gay Marriage will be Gay Divorce Court, which will be an awesome reality TV show

 

[pixel]

This isn't an equality issue. If its about our rights and we should have the right to love as we want then why not permit many wives or husbands? If everyone is consenting then who is the government to tell us how to live and love? Then children will have multiple mother and father influences.......
Can you see where this is going?

Yes, I can see where this is going: Multiple Serial Communal Families, a glimpse of which we've seen in the floral 1960's and 70's.
Read Heinlein "Time Enough to Love" and "The Number of the Beast".

(showing my age, ain't I )

 

[Gringotts Bank]

So you think you could learn to be gay?

Not now, not for me. But I think a child could. I'm no expert on this but I have noticed a few things:

1. gay men/women I have known seem to often have poor relationships with the same sex parent. Not always, but often. Even if it's just a parent who is aloof or absent a lot.
2. There was a doco on TV that showed that young gay men who reconnect with their fathers have a high chance of changing their sexual orientation (it was an episode of the Young Americans).
3. We only desire things we don't have. If we haven't had the love/connection of the same sex parent early in life, we could easily create the image of the perfect lover as being someone who has that missing quality, ie. maleness/femaleness.

It can't be easy being gay. It's probably a lot easier than it was in the past, which is a good thing.

 

[MrBurns]

Not now, not for me. But I think a child could. I'm no expert on this but I have noticed a few things:

1. gay men/women I have known seem to often have poor relationships with the same sex parent. Not always, but often. Even if it's just a parent who is aloof or absent a lot.
2. There was a doco on TV that showed that young gay men who reconnect with their fathers have a high chance of changing their sexual orientation (it was an episode of the Young Americans).
3. We only desire things we don't have. If we haven't had the love/connection of the same sex parent early in life, we could easily create the image of the perfect lover as being someone who has that missing quality, ie. maleness/femaleness.

It can't be easy being gay. It's probably a lot easier than it was in the past, which is a good thing.

I think it's more basic than that, it's SEX

I might love my mates but there's no way on earth I'd want to be naked with them and the thought of having sex with a man ?
Would take more than a bad relationship with good old Dad to bring that on

 

[Ves]

Not now, not for me. But I think a child could. I'm no expert on this but I have noticed a few things:

1. gay men/women I have known seem to often have poor relationships with the same sex parent. Not always, but often. Even if it's just a parent who is aloof or absent a lot.
2. There was a doco on TV that showed that young gay men who reconnect with their fathers have a high chance of changing their sexual orientation (it was an episode of the Young Americans).
3. We only desire things we don't have. If we haven't had the love/connection of the same sex parent early in life, we could easily create the image of the perfect lover as being someone who has that missing quality, ie. maleness/femaleness.

It can't be easy being gay. It's probably a lot easier than it was in the past, which is a good thing.

Have you ever thought that homosexual children have poor relationships with their "Same sex parent" because of the fact that they had homosexual traits growing up? The causation could easily be argued to be the reverse of your argument.

for the record, I've never ever met anyone who has been involved in a "three way" love pact. I've never really heard it reported any where either. I'm not sure how people are saying it is "common" or "prevalent" and the "next big step." Sounds like hyperbole from my, admittedly, shorter experience of the world.

 

[McLovin]

Have you ever thought that homosexual children have poor relationships with their "Same sex parent" because of the fact that they had homosexual traits growing up? The causation could easily be argued to be the reverse of your argument.

for the record, I've never ever met anyone who has been involved in a "three way" love pact. I've never really heard it reported any where either. I'm not sure how people are saying it is "common" or "prevalent" and the "next big step." Sounds like hyperbole from my, admittedly, shorter experience of the world.

I agree.

This debate is filled with hyperbole. It's commonly accepted by everyone except some of the more fanatical Bible bashers that homosexuality is something you're born with. As Burnsie pointed out, it takes more than a bad relationship with your dad to want to hop in the sack with your best mate.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Have you ever thought that homosexual children have poor relationships with their "Same sex parent" because of the fact that they had homosexual traits growing up? The causation could easily be argued to be the reverse of your argument.

for the record, I've never ever met anyone who has been involved in a "three way" love pact. I've never really heard it reported any where either. I'm not sure how people are saying it is "common" or "prevalent" and the "next big step." Sounds like hyperbole from my, admittedly, shorter experience of the world.

No I hadn't actually, that's a good point.

 

[moXJO]

Ahh NZ.
One step closer to marrying sheep

 

[tinhat]

Ahh NZ.
One step closer to marrying sheep

The Honourable Corey Bernardi is in the chamber.

 

[pavilion103]

I agree.

This debate is filled with hyperbole. It's commonly accepted by everyone except some of the more fanatical Bible bashers that homosexuality is something you're born with. As Burnsie pointed out, it takes more than a bad relationship with your dad to want to hop in the sack with your best mate.

What is it commonly accepted based on? What is the evidence that 'you are born with it'

How is the argument more convincing than the opposite?

Do you so think pedophiles are born with sexual feelings towards kids?

99 out of 100 people can agree that 1+1=3 but unless there is evidence for it, it's acceptance is based in ignorance.

 

[moXJO]

The Honourable Corey Bernardi is in the chamber.

wasn't he fired over a similar quote?

 

[McLovin]

What is it commonly accepted based on? What is the evidence that 'you are born with it'

Countless studies by the medical profession. It may take an environmental factor that causes someone to "come out", but it's extremely unlikely that an otherwise straight man or woman becomes gay overnight after watching Will and Grace. Sexuality is a continum not a binary outcome. If you are right at the gay end of the sexuality spectrum then you're going to be gay. Most people sit somewhere along the spectrum rather than at either end.

 

[moXJO]

I wonder what the legal ramifications to persons or institutions that do not recognize gay marriage due to beliefs will be. You would expect laws will have to be changed.

 

[Julia]

I would argue the hurdles of going through the adoption process for any couple (which can take years) should show how determined they are to do a good job parenting.

Point worth considering.

I fail to see how a child would be worse off than some single parent children, or children from less than ideal circumstances. Eg alcohol/drug taking parents, parents who can't afford to look after them, parents who don't know how to look after a child, abusive families..

Agree with the principle you're talking about, but perhaps consider that a homosexual orientation will not preclude people from alcohol/drug abuse, penury, or abuse.

 

[pavilion103]

What about my pedophile question which is also in relation to sexual preference? Is this something people are born with too?

And specifically what genetic information has been found in an individual that makes them have a homosexual preference? Not generic studies but concrete evidence? I can't let a claim like yours, that being born with it is absolutely commonly accepted, go uncontested without some very specific and substantial evidence to back it up.

 

[McLovin]

What about my pedophile question which is also in relation to sexual preference? Is this something people are born with too?

Last time I checked, paedophilia was not a sexual preference any more than liking MILFs is.

And specifically what genetic information has been found in an individual that makes them have a homosexual preference? Not generic studies but concrete evidence?

Google away. There's no concrete evidence of what gene causes it but there is a plethora of evidence that it is biological.

 

[pavilion103]

It is intellectually dishonest (or ignorant) to state that people are born with homosexuality as a fact. Objectively, that just cannot be done.

"Medical studies" is a throw away line on a forum like this rather than presenting evidences A,B,C.


Unfortunately the uneducated public just accept this as a tolerance issue because it is what they have naively been fed. Most do not have the foresight to see the implications of these decisions (as I've mentioned above). I'm used to it. Like other things people will look at the few who recognized this and say "wow, how did you see that coming. It was only one small tolerance issue at the time."

The amount of propaganda in here is laughable.

 

[moXJO]

It is intellectually dishonest (or ignorant) to state that people are born with homosexuality as a fact. Objectively, that just cannot be done.

"Medical studies" is a throw away line on a forum like this rather than presenting evidences A,B,C.


Unfortunately the uneducated public just accept this as a tolerance issue because it is what they have naively been fed. Most do not have the foresight to see the implications of these decisions (as I've mentioned above). I'm used to it. Like other things people will look at the few who recognized this and say "wow, how did you see that coming. It was only one small tolerance issue at the time."

The amount of propaganda in here is laughable.

Do you have a problem with them getting married or just the choice vs genetics?

 

[McLovin]

It is intellectually dishonest (or ignorant) to state that people are born with homosexuality as a fact. Objectively, that just cannot be done.

I believe I said it was "commonly accepted", there's a difference between that and a proven fact. It's commonly accepted that life on Earth started in a primordial soup, although there is no way of proving it as fact. It's far more intellectually dishonest to try and paint paedophilia as a sexual orientation on par with homosexuality.

Royal College of Psychiatrists in the UK...

2. The origins of homosexuality
Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there
is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of
parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a
person’s fundamental heterosexual or homosexual orientation. It would appear
that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex
interplay of genetic factors and the
early uterine environment. Sexual
orientation is therefore not a choice, thou
gh sexual behaviour clearly is. Thus
LGB people have exactly the same rights and responsibilities concerning the
expression of their sexuality as heterosexual people. However, until the
beginning of more liberal social attitu
des to homosexuality in the past two
decades, prejudice and discrimination against homosexuality induced
considerable embarrassment and shame in
many LGB people and did little to
encourage them to lead sex lives that ar
e respectful of themselves and others.
We return to the stability of LGB partnerships below

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/pdf/Submission to the Church of England.pdf

But what would they know, ay.

The amount of propaganda in here is laughable.

Agree.

 

[pavilion103]

Complex interplay of genetic factors - this says nothing.

The article/study basically says they don't believe there is any evidence for homosexually being due to environment (a generic statement not supported by anything at all specific). It's really stated as a personal opinion.

So because one article states:
1) it isn't due to environment ( no evidence)
2) it is due to genetic factors (no evidence)

That is evidence enough? I don't mean to be harsh, I actually enjoy your posts in the trading forums but... Aren't you embarrassed to post that as evidence? You'd never post anything so flakey on the trading boards!!!!