Futures day trading after 6pm - which market?

[Trembling Hand]

FTSE contract is £10 but even if they have a new contract coming why would you trade them? You are adding another middle man with extra cost, lots of them and extra latency.

Why don't people just trade futures??

 

[skc]

Just to be clear, I have not signed up for their futures. Only trading their DMA shares at the moment, as the pricing is identical to the real market, and the commissions are significantly less then trading actual shares.

They called it DMA because you get a direct data feed from the exchange, rather than some made up price.

But you are still trading with them as your principal, and not actually holding a futures contract or anything like that.

Also, you always have to cross the spread when you trade these index products.

 

[tech/a]

FTSE contract is £10 but even if they have a new contract coming why would you trade them? You are adding another middle man with extra cost, lots of them and extra latency.

Why don't people just trade futures??

+1.

 

[Joules MM1]

Joules do you only have CFD data?

during trade time
my screens consist of basic data, a cfd platform over two screens, charts only
on a laptop (using global mouse) forex news release times, twitter, generic cash chart, finviz

----------------------------

i agree from an execution pov about the futures v cfd conversation.....of course, just makes sense......the only advantage for a new player is the size factor, engaging on small size for many a single es is just too big, they shouldnt be trading if the size if too big, but that's their area not mine, they can't get cheap enough fees even tho, yeah, the con for difference is actually more expensive as a ratio of a single cfd transaction and of course the feed is distorted and lags altho, again, given their starting point, those issues dont become real issues till their profficiencies lift, as soon as they get close to fast execution they encounter the challenges that some systems wont be efficient with cfd's......

the pay-off for poor execution and coloured pricing is the size factor alone, that's all.......cfd's carry huge disadvantages over exchange feeds and most players are not aware of how the mm can simply drive straight thru a cash pricing on a news release and claim liquidity or supply/demand as a reason for bloating the price which is obviously in the providers favour.......these things can be dealt with with experience and screen time and eventually taken as an advantage

 

[Trembling Hand]

cfd's carry huge disadvantages over exchange feeds and most players are not aware of how the mm can simply drive straight thru a cash pricing on a news release and claim liquidity or supply/demand as a reason for bloating the price which is obviously in the providers favour.

Really? Joules thats mostly just not true. If you had Live futs data, which I cannot believe people trade indexes without it, you'd see that its the futs that are moving beyond cash prices. Imagine the arb opportunities if there was two trade-able instruments that diverged!!

its the futs man, the futs.

 

[>Apocalypto<]

Hello All,

I've been trading shares on the ASX (several weeks/months holding time) and I'm looking at getting into futures day trading. As I have a lot to learn before I can be consistently profitable I'm not quite ready to leave the day job just yet, which means I'm only available until after 6pm weekdays and all day/night weekends.

Does anyone have suggestions as to an ideal market to begin trading in? I will miss the SPI and HSI sessions so I could potentially hit up the US sessions after midnight (although that would wreck havoc on my full time job, I don't think i'd be able to do it).

I could try and catch SPI night sessions or something similar but I've been recommended to stick to the opening sessions due to better liquidity and price action. That pretty much only leaves Europe I guess? With London opening about 5:30pm I think? (AEST - Melbourne).

I'm not particularly fussed if it's IDX/Bonds/Comms/etc. But just bearing in mind that I'll be new to this so if there's a particular class you think would be best suited for learning I'd appreciate any advice.

Thank you for your time

KJM

AUDJPY and CL (oil) for me start audjpy at 4:30 OIL mainly after 6

 

[CanOz]

AUDJPY and CL (oil) for me start audjpy at 4:30 OIL mainly after 6

Heya mate, longtime no see!

CanOz

 

[>Apocalypto<]

Heya mate, longtime no see!

CanOz

Hi can Oz,
Yeh sure has, I stopped all posting on trading forums... found it helped ...... nah I bought a business start of last year and used my trading acc to part fund it... so haven’t really been trading till this year had no time last year... Back on GoMarkets for crude and pepperstone for FX still don’t have the spare cash to get back into IB properly properly. Trading doing ok i am still using the floor trader method on crude with some tweaks, using price and round numbers on AUDJPY.

How’s life in china? I was there last year and was shocked at the inflation... the old 100RMB doesn’t last as long as it did a few years ago.

How are the markets treating you?

cheers,

Joseph

 

[CanOz]

Hi can Oz,
Yeh sure has, I stopped all posting on trading forums... found it helped ...... nah I bought a business start of last year and used my trading acc to part fund it... so haven’t really been trading till this year had no time last year... Back on GoMarkets for crude and pepperstone for FX still don’t have the spare cash to get back into IB properly properly. Trading doing ok i am still using the floor trader method on crude with some tweaks, using price and round numbers on AUDJPY.

How’s life in china? I was there last year and was shocked at the inflation... the old 100RMB doesn’t last as long as it did a few years ago.

How are the markets treating you?

cheers,

Joseph

Life in china is a little tougher right now....we've moved temporarily to taiyuan. I've taken a position here to try and help out a friend with his business. Other than that it been great.

I've taken a break from trading, after giving myself a years to become profitable at day trading index futs. Oddly enough my last week was profitable trading the hang seng mini and the FESX, but net net it was back to work for me. I've not given up though, just a break.

I felt I accomplished allot during that time, the primary thing being to settle on a descretionary method and stick to it.

Personally i prefer futures to anything else. The FESX is only 10 EUR per point, and margin is only a couple thou. I can take 8 to 10 contracts on a twenty k account.

We'll have to chat more in PM mate!

Cheers,

CanOz

 

[pavilion103]

Life in china is a little tougher right now....we've moved temporarily to taiyuan. I've taken a position here to try and help out a friend with his business. Other than that it been great.

I've taken a break from trading, after giving myself a years to become profitable at day trading index futs. Oddly enough my last week was profitable trading the hang seng mini and the FESX, but net net it was back to work for me. I've not given up though, just a break.

I felt I accomplished allot during that time, the primary thing being to settle on a descretionary method and stick to it.

Personally i prefer futures to anything else. The FESX is only 10 EUR per point, and margin is only a couple thou. I can take 8 to 10 contracts on a twenty k account.

We'll have to chat more in PM mate!

Cheers,

CanOz

Is 10 contracts on a 20K account fairly aggressive?

Do you get a few good trades an evening? What sort of potential is there in terms of profit using 20K?

I just started out on the FTSE futures last evening.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Do you get a few good trades an evening? What sort of potential is there in terms of profit using 20K?

That is actually a silly question. You have the data, watch and learn, find patterns, trade - repeat. ONLY then will your question be anywhere near answered.

If I told you that there is 15 good trades a night what would you do with that info?

 

[skc]

Is 10 contracts on a 20K account fairly aggressive?
I just started out on the FTSE futures last evening.

Sounds waaaaaaaaay too aggressive for anyone, let alone a beginner.

That's 100 GBP per point on a $20k (assuming $Aussie) account.... a 3 tick loss = 2%. You got to be pretty precise with your entry to achieve this. I think most futures day trader would have a daily loss limit well below 2%, and hence a per trade loss limit substantially below that again.

 

[pavilion103]

That is actually a silly question. You have the data, watch and learn, find patterns, trade - repeat. ONLY then will your question be anywhere near answered.

If I told you that there is 15 good trades a night what would you do with that info?

That is what I have begun to do. As someone who has spent almost 2 years developing a strategy before even commencing in the market I am not someone looking for shortcuts.

I am just curious as to how profitable people on here are trading the FTSE and if they usually sit there all night or take a few trades in a couple of hours and then go do something else.

I will no doubt continue the hard work.

 

[pavilion103]

Sounds waaaaaaaaay too aggressive for anyone, let alone a beginner.

That's 100 GBP per point on a $20k (assuming $Aussie) account.... a 3 tick loss = 2%. You got to be pretty precise with your entry to achieve this. I think most futures day trader would have a daily loss limit well below 2%, and hence a per trade loss limit substantially below that again.

Yeh it sounded very large to me on a 20K account. Even on the sim now I'm trading a single contract just to get used to it.

 

[CanOz]

Yeh it sounded very large to me on a 20K account. Even on the sim now I'm trading a single contract just to get used to it.

Yes, it could be too much if that was your only trading capital. I have 20k in that account. Full stop is 5 ticks x 8 contracts for 400 eur. My total trading capital is about 2.5 times that with IB at the moment. So I have another account that I had setup for my auto trading but is dormant now as I has sent a substantial portion of it overseas to a family member on loan. So using my total capital at hand, the 400 eur full stop is acceptable.

I take five contracts off at three ticks profit. Two more at the first target and the remaining one is the runner.

I go to BE after five ticks of profit, or sooner depending on the tape.

CanOz

 

[pavilion103]

Yes, it could be too much if that was your only trading capital. I have 20k in that account. Full stop is 5 ticks x 8 contracts for 400 eur. My total trading capital is about 2.5 times that with IB at the moment. So I have another account that I had setup for my auto trading but is dormant now as I has sent a substantial portion of it overseas to a family member on loan. So using my total capital at hand, the 400 eur full stop is acceptable.

I take five contracts off at three ticks profit. Two more at the first target and the remaining one is the runner.

I go to BE after five ticks of profit, or sooner depending on the tape.

CanOz

Interesting. It seems like a high risk/reward approach with this account.

Do you trade most evenings? Does the account grow fairly quickly?

 

[CanOz]

Interesting. It seems like a high risk/reward approach with this account.

Do you trade most evenings? Does the account grow fairly quickly?

I'm not trading now Pav. If you read my posts you'd see that I had become profitable in my last week of fulltime trading before taking on a new position in a Chinese company.

The key was however, that I had a decent win rate as I would get into the trade as the orders hit the book and most of the time I could get at least three ticks. This is a mean reversion strategy, using volume profile so you take trades back towards value. When it doesn't work well, are trend days. You need enough experience to recognize those days and either get in on the pullbacks, or scale back/step aside.

Anyway, you need to put in the screen time if you want trade descretionary.

CanOz

 

[>Apocalypto<]

Interesting. It seems like a high risk/reward approach with this account.

Do you trade most evenings? Does the account grow fairly quickly?

how you finding the FTSE on the short term Pav?

 

[Galham]

Your choices are quite varied in terms of thickness, average daily range, commissions, margin etc. You really should pop onto a SIM and trade a few. Are you day swing trading, Scalping in and out frequently?

For example, in Europe the FESX is a great instrument to trade if you're willing to hang on. Its 10 EUR a tick and moves slowly, is thick as f*** with a ton of liquidity. The DAX on the other hand is more like the Crude Oil, its fast and thin. At 12.5 EUR a tick it can clean you out in a hurry.

Then there are Bunds and Bobls, they're both thick markets.

Then you've got the US makrkets CL, Crude Oil which can be a good market to trade even before the US market opens at times, all be it a bit thin, so you wouldn't want to be trading too many contracts...

The ES, the S&P 500 mini is good to trade 24 hours a day. Its pretty cheap, liquid, and thick enough to learn to read.

CanOz

CanOz,

I’m a beginner and keen to look at futures and mini futures day trading. What I can find online is US locals starting at 0930 ET when NY wakes up. You mentioned that futures is good 24/7 ? I was under the impression it goes flat.
Also what platform do you use ? I’ve just downloaded Ninjatrader to train on demo platform. Any help would be very much appreciated ! So glad I found an Aussie chat Among the many US based once.
Cheers