Futures brokers?

dreads said:

Yeah, that's my reason for signing up. AMP Futures have a cost calculator if anyone is interested: http://www.ampfutures.com/Cost_Calc.html

I'll be interested to see how the CQG data compares to IB's also.

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CQG should be more accurate because its unfiltered. But if your using time based charts it shouldn't matter anyway.

RADO said:

CQG should be more accurate because its unfiltered. But if your using time based charts it shouldn't matter anyway.

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+1

CQG data is great for level II data, its fast and never splits.

cbc said:

Lemme know how u go with this mob. I'm about to sign up with these guys. There fee's on the local SPI are very cheap. 1/3 the price of IB.

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How did you go funding your AMP account guys? My wired funds seemed to come through to UK in about 2 days without issues. I still haven't figured out how to initialize my account and set up NT for non-demo use yet.

Newt said:

How did you go funding your AMP account guys? My wired funds seemed to come through to UK in about 2 days without issues. I still haven't figured out how to initialize my account and set up NT for non-demo use yet.

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I funded mine in USD using Ozforex. Ozforex received my BPay yesterday and AMP had the payment last night (I woke up to an email saying I was ready to set up my trading platform).

I just set up my account with CQG. I already had NinjaTrader with multibroker so I selected 'Free NinjaTrader'. The set-up was a breeze, the whole process is easier than Interactive Brokers except there is no Australian bank account or BPay option unfortunately. AMP seem to use a 'segregated client account' for funds, the same as IB.

CQG have a Sydney data centre which is nice. There is no app open with CQG like Interactive Brokers needs with NT (TWS).

I've been doing a tape-reading course so I'm hoping the CQG data will improve the reconstructed tape. Apparently IB bundle the trades every 250ms which usually doesn't matter but does for the reconstructed tape.

David

I forgot to mention, the CQG data is working, no problem at all. I'm flat out with work at the moment but later today or tonight I'm going to try a jigsaw recon tape and DOM using CQG next to the same thing using IB to see if the 250ms IB delay is true. If the data is the same after all I suppose I have cheaper commissions for some futures (eg the SPI).

I used Interactive Brokers to trade FX then CL for age's. Found them faultless. Used Book Trader for CL with Ninja Trader found it to be a perfect set up. Hopefully one day i will have the Capital again to go back to IB and CL.

Newt said:

How did you go funding your AMP account guys? My wired funds seemed to come through to UK in about 2 days without issues. I still haven't figured out how to initialize my account and set up NT for non-demo use yet.

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Just make sure you get the account details right. If you use Westpac I can email you a jpeg or PNG of a screenshot with how i filled it in....

Otherwise it was easy, i funded it by sending through a USD amount to the account, two or three days, sometimes overnight it was funded.

My only suggestion is to only fund your account when you have a tested and proven trade plan, whether that be back tested or sim traded. Still, nothing will prepare you for how your emotions will play tricks on your analytical abilities once real money is on the line.

Thanks Canoz, I funded through Westpac too and found the screens a bit of a challenge to figure out. I only sent through a minimal amount, more to prove I had the setting right than anything. Lots of homework to do before I put a decent amount of capital in there.

Actually, the demo NT and AMP options are so good I've probably set up the real a/c too early, but its all a learning curve.

CanOz said:

Can't go past AMP Clearing with CQG data at this stage. I've yet to come across another way to get as much intraday data with excellent level II. Put up the minimum account and sim away until your hearts content.

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Hey CanOz,

Do you know if you can access other exchanges that CGQ offer via AMP? In Asia looks like they only have SFE and SGX. Can you go through AMP to get access to the Kospi for example?
I've asked AMP direct, but I'm not sure if the guy I was speaking to knew what I meant, I'm opening an account anyway to test, but thought I'd check with other users too.

Cheers,
Ross.

rossw said:

Hey CanOz,

Do you know if you can access other exchanges that CGQ offer via AMP? In Asia looks like they only have SFE and SGX. Can you go through AMP to get access to the Kospi for example?
I've asked AMP direct, but I'm not sure if the guy I was speaking to knew what I meant, I'm opening an account anyway to test, but thought I'd check with other users too.

Cheers,
Ross.

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No, unfortunately you cannot access the Kospi or the Hang Seng through AMP's CQG data. You can with Phillips futures but i believe only through their CQG platform, they don't offer Ninja yet. There was a cost, like $4k to setup and they weren't quite ready to do it. I just use IB for the Kospi, HSI and HHI. Its not ideal but seems to work ok.

Ok thanks CanOz. I can't even get the demo AMP account working tonight in MultiCharts after waiting for ages for some help via their live chat. They're not off to a great start.

I think I may end up sticking with my original idea of esignal data and IB execution

Hi guys, just found this thread as I have been looking around for a futures broker to try out some auto strategies with NT7 after initially thinking of trading the ES & NQ minis on IG Markets but wasn't happy with the platform, minimum 10 point stops, spreads, differences in what prices their charts are displaying vs the data I was getting from eSignal, etc. Also hearing all the terrible stuff about stops on IG mysteriously being hit when the market never goes near them, etc.

In good news I am 1 day into trying out a test account with AMP / CQG data and so far so good. The only problem I had was when signing up for the NinjaTrader/CQG demo account via their webpage I received an email with a License Key for Ninja, instructions on how to setup the CQG data feed in Ninja, and it said another email would be sent within 15 mins with my user ID & Password, however this email never arrived.

I tried twice and both times got the licence key & instructions email but no user ID & password email. Finally just went to their contact section (http://www.ampclearing.com/contact.html) and did a Live Chat with their rep Mel Mahinan and was sent an email with a username and password straight away.

Setup was easy and seems to be operating as it should. Amazing that I now have live data for all futures over various exchanges you can poke a stick at vs paying $180 a month for eSignal (that's with them giving me the $145 a month fee off for the first month) just to get live data for the ASX, Forex, ES & NQ.

I'd be interested in hearing from / talking to anyone else who is trading US futures from within Aus, specifically with anyone who can explain the margin requirements simply. Margin with IG CFD's is pretty straight forward and I've never had a problem understand how much I need in my account to take positions and account for losses, etc , but I'm getting a little confused with futures and the initial, maintenance, intraday margins, exactly what the broker requires if I only plan on day-trading and exactly what counts as an overnight hold seeing as the emini futures (ES, NQ & YM specifically) trade 23 hours a day from 5:00pm – 4:15pm the next day (excluding the 3:15pm – 3:30pm maintenance shutdown), five days a week.

From what I can gather overnight margins (eg. Initial & maintenance of say $4,500 per contract) only apply if you carry an open position through / during the daily shut down (3:15-3:30pm Central for the ES, NQ, YM, 5-7pm Central for the TF yeh?). So if you place a trade on the ES, NQ or YM after 5pm one day and close it before the daily shut down at 3:15pm the next day then the overnight margin would not apply? But if you place a trade and want to hold it during the daily shut down then the overnight margin would apply ....

Just makes a big difference as if I wanted to say trade 10 contacts on the ES, going off the Initial Margin amounts I'd likely want to transfer and maintain at least $60-70k with AMP, but going off the day trading margin amounts $20-30k would seem sufficient.

Sorry to digress, anyhow will come back with more feedback on AMP / CQG once I've had a few days to play with it. If anyone has any insight / info on the margin & daytrade vs overnight hold definition when it comes to trading e-minis I'd be most grateful

Initial margin is basically what it costs you to take a position during normal trading hours (RTH) with normal liquidity. The maintenance margin is the extra insurance they want from you if you carry over to ETH, or open a new position during Extended Trading Hours.

Thanks CanOz. Not meaning to doubt you as it sounds like you actually actively trade through AMP/CQG (vs me who is just looking into it heavily with a demo account currently), but are you 100% sure about that? I only ask as I found this page on the AMP site -

http://www.ampfutures.com/margins_req.html

"Margins Explanation: (Initial vs. DayTrade)

Initial Margin is set by the exchange. This is the amount required to carry a contract past the daily close. DayTrade Margin is set by AMP. This is the amount required to enter into a position per contract on an intraday basis. These margins are in effect anytime the market is open, except the last 5 minutes of each trading session. AMP request that you either flatten open positions or meet the exchange required initial margin during this time period."

On that basis if I only plan on day trading futures contracts on the ES, YM, TF & NQ during RTH (enter into a position per contract on an intraday basis and not carry a contract in the last 5 mins of each trading session or past the daily close) then I would assume it is only the DayTrade margin I need to worry about (plus obviously amount to cover drawdown / losses), so more sticking $20-30k with AMP based on the Intraday Margins rather than the $60-70k I would be thinking based on the Initial Margins? I'm only double / triple checking this as it makes a big difference to how many contracts I can trade at a time if the margin required for day trading as I intend to is actually only 1/6th - 1/10th of the regular Initial Margin amounts.

Hope that makes sense

Cheers!

Misquoted Fees

Have you ever been misquoted in regards to brokerage fees ?

Halifax Investment Services sent me a quotation of $3.50 to trade the SPI and upon starting to trade I realised my account was being charged $13.50 per side. No amount of e-mails or calls have resulted in any refund despite repeated e-mails and phone calls and sending them a copy of the quotation I received from them. They don't even have the courtesy to reply within their own designated time frame of 45 days to reply to a complaint.
*sigh*

I have also been misquoted by Bell Potter so I suspect this is not an isolated incident for this industry.

Any ex employees willing to shed some light on this practice.

Re: Misquoted Fees

rodwa said:

Have you ever been misquoted in regards to brokerage fees ?

Halifax Investment Services sent me a quotation of $3.50 to trade the SPI and upon starting to trade I realised my account was being charged $13.50 per side. No amount of e-mails or calls have resulted in any refund despite repeated e-mails and phone calls and sending them a copy of the quotation I received from them. They don't even have the courtesy to reply within their own designated time frame of 45 days to reply to a complaint.
*sigh*

I have also been misquoted by Bell Potter so I suspect this is not an isolated incident for this industry.

Any ex employees willing to shed some light on this practice.

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Do you have the $3.50 quote in writing? If so you have a pretty strong case. Take it to the ombudsman if they won't respond.

I've been trading with AMP Futures for a week now, here is what I've found.

AMP commissions aren't great, here are a couple of instruments vs Interactive Brokers (total commission per side):


So the SPI is slightly cheaper when you add in the Exchange, NFA, Clearing & CQG TRF, but for the ES & CL there's no comparison. These are the 'wood duck' rates because I just signed up, I didn't try negotiating or anything.

The other problem with AMP Futures is specific to the SPI (at least out of the three instruments I traded this week). Stop loss orders get rejected by the SFE when hit, apparently they don't accept them. IB must handle them via TWS and submit them as a market order when hit or something (synthetic stop). It's not the end of the world when trading the SPI because it's slow, but it does make it hard to go get a coffee if you have a position on.

On the other hand, the data is great, there is no app like TWS running in the background and the margins are very low.

David

If anyone has a moment, could you confirm if my CQG data matches yours?

The attached image compares CQG demo feed (AMP Futures) with IB for the FTSE100 March contract on Friday.

If you go through the volume data bar by bar you can see quite a few differences, but the obvious problem is the 7500 contract volume spike.



This is from Wednesday night.



Again, significant differences and fake spikes. Is this just because I'm on demo? Or is this expected of CQG?

A few months further down the road I thought I'd leave a few notes for those that follow. I found the AMP A/C I opened invaluable for Market Replay and just getting some idea of how Index Futures markets behave. I probably could have done everything I wanted with a demo a/c in hindsight, but might still trade live through AMP at some point.

I opened an IB account early March for a few reasons:

• Realisation I would never want to be futures trading without a stop (after watching how the DAX can gyrate in a few seconds!!! )
• Not wanting to pay a monthly fee for the full version of Ninjatrader during my first year of learning the ropes on top of European exchange fees (full version seems pretty well essential for strategies and decent stop and profit target orders)
• Figuring I could use an IB account for trading my existing ASX stocks strategy at half CMC brokerage even if the futures thing didn't work out - that also made me feel easier about the large deposit sum required to open an IB account in the first place - I certainly wouldn't want to trade such a sum in future initially, but am comfortable using it against ASX shares
• Curiousity about the TWS platform and the remote possibility I might eventually program something using the IB API (C# doesn't set me on fire so programming Ninjatrader doesn't look like a lot of fun)

I may not understand, but it seems to me IB is pretty hopefully for any historical play trading (versus NT and CGQ data), so that alone will keep my playing in the NT sandpit for some time to come.

Unless I've also missed something with TWS the programming of orders seems tedious. BracketTrader seems to be a very useful front end to significantly improve the TWS environment.

As far as data goes, purists seem to worry IB's data feed is inferior. I suspect getting data indirectly 4 times a second will still be fine for any stratey I'm like to follow, but still very early days for me - training wheels still firmly attached.


It might be interesting to hear from anyone else who has recently started a Futures account and how they're going?

Futures Brokers for Aussies

Greetings. Long-time reader, first-time poster at the forums here.
I have paper-traded US commodity futures for some months now with success and feel I'm ready to enter the market - at a slow pace with small positions since I'm still a beginner. There is a huge knowledge gap for me in understanding margins and such as my research and time up to this point have been focussed on analysis and making good trades.

I've done much research on this site but thought I would post and hopefully get some answers specific to my needs.

Obviously IB is very popular here and seems like my best bet. As I'm under 25 they only require a minimum deposit from me of $3000 US which suits me fine (https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=4969).

I plan to fund my account with about $5000-$7000 US to start with.

I am swing trading and plan to hold positions over-night; place and monitor the filling of my orders during trading hours and then, once they are filled, get some shut-eye since the US exchanges I'm interested in (CME) operate at night here (I live in WA). I have a few questions.

1.) Are overnight margins at IB going to kill me?
2.) Are there other costs associated with holding futures contracts for so long (say, 2-5 days)?
3.) I've heard IB's charts and info leave much to be desired. Is this only for intra-day traders, or should I be concerned too?
4.) Would you recommend any other brokers/platforms? or, perhaps a better question would be,
What are your recommendations for a beginner looking for a broker and platform, given I'm trading US markets from Australia?

I plan to trade softs, meats and metals. My paper-trading platform so far has been Barchart Trader which soon will require a paid subscription even for delayed data. I am told IB's platform is difficult to get around for a beginner, and I do like to keep things simple, but I'm ready and willing to learn.

I appreciate your time and any information is helpful!

Hi smargin,
1.) IB overnight margin for SPI futures contracts can be in excess of $10000, so yes it would kill you.
2.) Yes. You pay overnight interest on margin
3.) IB minute charts for SPI does frequently contain errors. Their USA data is great but for some reason OZ data is not reliable.
4.) Having said all that I use IB for my swing trading on SPI and ES