Formal trading education - opinions please

[TheAnalyst]

Noosa is a long way from Geraldton my friend. We would have to meet somewhere around Alice Springs if that were so.

Sorry Wayne i thought Geraldton was a suburb next to Noosa not a suburb next to Alice Springs........must be tech/A that drinks at the same bar.

Anyway i meant that he should do a much better deal for paid members of the chartist such as myself.

 

[wayneL]

Sorry Wayne i thought Geraldton was a suburb next to Noosa not a suburb next to Alice Springs........must be tech/A that drinks at the same bar.

ROFL

Geraldton is an exciting and world famous city on the west coast of Western Australia, 425 kms nth of Perth.

You would be struggling to find two places futher apart in OZ... Auckland is prolly closer.

Alice would be roughly in the middle. But I have a feeling you knew all that

 

[Porper]

Just to clarify, the CD comes with 3-months tutoring via email. The course was written in 1998 and still sells well today. More importantly what is in the course still works, bull or bear!

I wasn't putting a downer on your course Nick and didn't intend to insinuate all you got was one CD.But having spent only a few dollars on books, the next step seems a large price to pay.

I do respect Waynel and Techs comments on this and have taken their enthusiasm on board.

 

[MichaelD]

Yer i thought it was a bit too much as well porper.....I thought between $250 and $300 would have been a lot better and probably would have quad tripled sales.

The problem with pricing things in this game is that value is not necessarily related to price. There are lots of very expensive black boxes out there that are worthless. There are lots of expensive seminars out there that are worthless. On the other hand, there are lots of very expensive mentoring programmes out there that are fantastic value for money given you are given the knowledge to become profitable in the markets on a long term basis.

Unfortunately, the price is not a valid way to judge the value of stock trading information.

Also unfortunately, when approaching this from the point of view of a newer trader, it is very very hard to determine what is and what isn't good value for money.

I'd suggest that a very good principle when deciding when something is valuable or not in this game is whether it covers these two areas of trading;
1. Risk Management
2. Money Management

i.e. The book/CD/course/whatever explains to you how to work out how much of something to buy and when to sell it.

If the material only covers entry signals it is worthless.

Michael D

 

[stink]

The problem with pricing things in this game is that value is not necessarily related to price. There are lots of very expensive black boxes out there that are worthless. There are lots of expensive seminars out there that are worthless. On the other hand, there are lots of very expensive mentoring programmes out there that are fantastic value for money given you are given the knowledge to become profitable in the markets on a long term basis.

Unfortunately, the price is not a valid way to judge the value of stock trading information.

Also unfortunately, when approaching this from the point of view of a newer trader, it is very very hard to determine what is and what isn't good value for money.

I'd suggest that a very good principle when deciding when something is valuable or not in this game is whether it covers these two areas of trading;
1. Risk Management
2. Money Management

i.e. The book/CD/course/whatever explains to you how to work out how much of something to buy and when to sell it.

If the material only covers entry signals it is worthless.

Michael D

THanks Michael,

I agree, i have found alot of courses out there basically just show you how to work the software and dont cover investing fundamentals etc.

The course i am going to do is for 12 months training covering a wide range of topics such as Risk management and Money management. There is also a module about creating your trading strategy in which they help you develop your trading method.

Cost also covers the software that they use Trader Pro 2000 i think and any future software upgrades and full tech support for life.

They have a mentor programe where you are able to contact one of the full time traders anytime if you need to.

The course is teaching that until you are getting 7 from 10 trades correct paper trading, they advise you dont put any money into the market.

I have also been given contacts of existing members that live here in Townsville, which i think is great they are obviously not worried being bagged etc.

So all in all it seems to be a pretty well rounded course and support system, comparing to others that i have looked into. Time will tell!

Cheers Stink

 

[tech/a]

The course is teaching that until you are getting 7 from 10 trades correct paper trading, they advise you dont put any money into the market.

Alarm bell.1

Wonder what Money management ,risk management will cover then?

Alarm Bell 2

7/10 trades---over what period--week a month a year.
Over how many trades
10,1000,10000?

 

[MichaelD]

7/10 trades

Perhaps they are referring to 7/10 trades executed according to plan and not 7/10 profitable trades (it depends on what they mean by the word "correct")

Michael D

 

[stink]

HI All,

Just wanted to let you know that i went ahead with the course and couldnt be happier. I have learnt a great deal from active traders during ther course both instructional and fellow members.

Although no amount of education can remove the risk from trading, i am very confident that once my trading plan is in place i will be successful. I will keep you posted on that

The course did cover both risk and Money management and went through practical examples of how the principles are applied.

Furthermore i am able to go to as much training as i want over the next twelve months which is great.

Anyway for me its definately been the right decision as i would not have gone into the market by doing solo research etc.

Cheers All

 

[wayneL]

...as i would not have gone into the market by doing solo research etc.

Cheers All

My views on most courses are well known. I don't know which course stink did, but if it's the one I think it is, it's not bad, but most certainly not worth 10k.

Probably the only value these courses have is the motivation, because of the atmosphere generated by crowds of people... as mentioned by Stink.

That could be a good thing, it good be a bad thing.

History proves that for most, it's not good.

Cheers

PS 10k eh? B4gger me! Anyone want to start a seminar company with me? :

But good luck stink, hope all goes well for you

 

[stink]

HI Wayne,

I see your point and it is alot of money but when i can attend training as much as i like over a 12month period i can see the value in it. Plus talking to real people who are members not seminar attendee's they all have made there money back plus some within a 12 months. The only ones that havent have not actually entered the market as yet. Of course there are failures but its funny because the people who have lost or failed have not stuck to there trading plan etc or they overlooked something that would have kept them out of a trade in the first place.

Of course its a personal choice and i have my reasons for going down this path, i dont expect everyone to agree with them. I figure if i can cover my expenses within 12 months then what have i lost? If i dont i have still got an education and a skill that i otherwise would not have had. What does it cost to go to uni for twelve months?

What gives me confidence is that its not a seminar, its a nationally accredited training program, its tax deductable and i now have made aquaintances that are also members that are actively trading and making money as a direct result of this program. I mean we went through many examples of trades both good and bad that some of the members had made over recent periods etc. Its just real not something i am sent over the net or a book i read and am left all alone.

I can contact other members or the trainers themselves and discuss a potential trade, i get an excellent software program with all updates for life.

I dont care who thinks its good or crap i am just stating that it is right for me and i am sure there are others out there who would be in the same boat as me and need this type of influence to get them going?

Again i stated earlier in the post that i would let you all know what i decided so thats the only reason for this post. I tell you what " Give me six months and i will report back and let you know how i am going, if i am going downhill or out of the market then you can say "told you so"

Regards
Stink

 

[ben007]

Some really good advice is in this thread, so well done guys.

Let me explain there is two types of education in the sharemarket ones provided by marketeers and good education provided by real traders.

This thread started up asking for accredited education. The question that remains is 'what is accredted' There are some companies out there that are an RTO (Registered Training Organisations) which is a government license to teach accredited courses. There are only two share trading educators that actually teach an accredited course, the rest pretend that they do and when you talk to them they loosely imply there education is approved by the government, the one mentioned at the start of this thread is one of them. It is exceptionally hard to get a course accredited as you have to go through audits and the like to get approval.


If you want to to find someone to learn to trade from you need to have a list of criteria to compare. If you want accreditation you only have two choices and both are very good. Here are some pointers. The best marketers often provide the worst courses (they have to market harder as they get few referals) Make sure the company you chose actually can prove what they do. It is easy to say you are the best educator, but proving it is much harder. Do they actively trade? Do they put out recomendations in a public forum such as a newsletter? (here you can gauge there results). Are they happy to give you clients to speak too? Do they sell on a guarantee? If they do then often this is a give away that thier course is not as good (the guarantees I have seen sound good but in the majority of cases are written so you will never be able to cliam on it, and as a novice you would never know this). Look to see if they are ASIC licensed preferably thier own license and not a representative of someone elses. Look to see if they are quoted in the media for expert comments as this tells you that the media have checked them out and beleive they are ok.

Lastly do not believe the marketing documentation only beleive what you can veryify and prove. Good education cost less than ignorance

Hope all this helps

 

[ben007]

Sorry guys, forgotto put this link in my previous email. The link below is to the government website that lists all accredited training orgainsations and all accredited courses. If a company or course is not on there then they are not an RTO and the course it is not accredited by the government.

http://www.ntis.gov.au/

 

[R0n1n]

I wonder if Stink would let us know how he has been doing...

 

[CanOz]

I am a big fan of Nick Radge but his online course is $550 I think (by memory) which is a lot for a cd.Anybody had a go at his course ?

I've completed Nick's courses Porper, just recently, have you started them yet?

I thought the money was well spent. The lessons i've learned will be with me forever now.

Now i know where Tech/A was coming from being so re-iterative about entry's and thier non-priority.

Cheers,

 

[debaron]

guys...

I'm very intrigued by all the posts above. I a now considering to get into a more formal education myself. However just one question, how much time do you spend on the training/courses and actual trading itself? I dont want to be glued to the market 24/7 as i am a full time professional thus i cant afford to check the market every single hour of the day. Enlighten me?

 

[tech/a]

The answer is simply to trade profitably what do you NEED TO KNOW.

 

[jersey10]

is stink still around i would be interested in how he has gone with his trading since doing his course. also what course is he referring to in his post?

tech: you say you will make the money from Nick Radge's course back in a day if you have a decent capital base - what is a decent capital base? in other words using the knowledge i would gain if i did Nick Radge's course what sort of returns would i expect on average?

jersey10

 

[tech/a]

Lets say a course --any course is under $1000.

If you truely learn what makes you profitable its not unlikely that you could recoup that in one good trade.Which is only a 5% move on $20,000 worth of stock not impossible in a single day.

Today
27 stocks with a monthly average T/O of $1,000,000
rose 5% or more.
If we include all stocks traded on the ASX
309 rose 5% or more.

Now if we traded with $100,000
1731 from the full list rose 1%
and 151 from the high liquidity list.

Aint that hard!

 

[Porper]

is stink still around i would be interested in how he has gone with his trading since doing his course. also what course is he referring to in his post?

tech: you say you will make the money from Nick Radge's course back in a day if you have a decent capital base - what is a decent capital base? in other words using the knowledge i would gain if i did Nick Radge's course what sort of returns would i expect on average?

jersey10

You could PM stink to see how it has turned out, but i.m.o you don't need to spend $10,000 to learn how to be profitable.

This thread has been resurrected from the dead.Interesting going back a couple of years on here I was undecided on whether to do Nick Radges course because it was $550 odd dollars.!! (still the same price).

Well I did do it and it is the best $550 I have spent.Together with Adaptive Analysis there is just about everything you need to know to stop losing money.Whether you will become consistently profitable will be up to you.

Effort = Reward.

I also did Robert Miners course around the same time for considerably more cost.Although I got a couple of things from it (so to me it was worth it) there was nowhere near as much quality info in it, and most of it was in Building a profitable Trading Plan by Nick Radge anyway.

It is impossible to say how much you could make doing the course, it doesn't work like that jersey.The information is there, it's up to us to make of it what we will.

 

[jersey10]

You could PM stink to see how it has turned out, but i.m.o you don't need to spend $10,000 to learn how to be profitable.

This thread has been resurrected from the dead.Interesting going back a couple of years on here I was undecided on whether to do Nick Radges course because it was $550 odd dollars.!! (still the same price).

Well I did do it and it is the best $550 I have spent.Together with Adaptive Analysis there is just about everything you need to know to stop losing money.Whether you will become consistently profitable will be up to you.

Effort = Reward.

I also did Robert Miners course around the same time for considerably more cost.Although I got a couple of things from it (so to me it was worth it) there was nowhere near as much quality info in it, and most of it was in Building a profitable Trading Plan by Nick Radge anyway.

It is impossible to say how much you could make doing the course, it doesn't work like that jersey.The information is there, it's up to us to make of it what we will.

yes i know what you mean, you can lead a horse to water but....

anyway, thanks for the replies tech & porper.

porper what level of trading were you at when you did the course? is it suitable for a relative beginner who wants to become a full time trader?

jersey10