Fluoride

Sorry, have reposted, with the appropriate quote breaks.

Julia said:

Sorry I don't believe that. If that were the case, then why would my local Council have been handing out tablets to anyone who wanted them for many years. The Council felt that was the most reasonable way to allow those who wanted to consume fluoride to do so, without affecting those who don't.

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That's because it's the next best option to fluoridated water. It has nowhere near the efficacy. It is also dangerous because if children are going to be exposed to potentially harmful doses of Fluoride, it's going to be because they are incorrectly dosed by their parents , not the water supply.

Julia said:

They have now, of course, been overridden by the State government.

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That's because it is for the greater good of the majority

Julia said:

Well, then, that's their bloody choice! I don't see why the whole population should be considered in the light of the irresponsibility of some minority.
We live in such a nanny state that soon most people will have lost the capacity to make decisions for themselves!

By using such expressions as this, you are showing no respect for those who have opinions different from your own. I have not - and I don't think any of the other posters who are anti fluoride - been rude in presenting our arguments. I notice in all of your lengthy post you have chosen to make no comment on my original concern - that of disfiguring fluorosis.

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I have chosen not to address your previous claims about Fluorosis of your own teeth because it seems to me that your claims about the staining of your own teeth are misguided and in no way related to fluoride.
Fluorosis is a mottling or discolouration of the enamel of the teeth that occurs due to high systemic Fluoride levels AT THE TIME THE CROWNS OF THE PERMANENT TEETH ARE DEVELOPING. IE From 32 weeks in utero to about 2 years of age for most teeth. It an intrinsic diclouration of the enamel, not a surface stain as your posts seem to suggest.

Unless you were exposed to high fluoride levels during that period of your life, your stains are not Fluorotic. When reading your previous posts (correct me if I'm wrong), you state you were in a Fluoridated area for one month (as an adult?).
Fluoride in the water supply does not cause extrinsic staining to the teeth either. Other minerals might.

Julia said:

In my own instance, it's not a case of belief. It's a case of the evidence of my own experience.

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Your beliefs may be misguided by incorrect "information" given to you by your dentist at the time.

Fluorosis is a common finding these days, but for the most part it is a minor cosmetic issue. Tooth decay is a health issue. Moreover, Fluorosis is not caused by drinking fluoridated tap water. It is usually, from children/ingesting ingesting too much fluoride toothpaste in there early developmental years, being overdosed on fluoride tablets, drinking bore water when is naturally very high in fluoride and other minerals, or drinking infant formula that has been made up with tap water, thereby doubling the fluoride concentration.

Julia said:

Why do you suggest so many countries who have fluoridated their water supply in the past have subsequently chosen to withdraw it?

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The previous poster has selectively quoted stuff from rampant Anti-Fluoridation websites to back his argument. That is his prerogative - I myself would rather listen to the public health experts. Just because certain EU countries have decided against it DOESNT make it the right thing.

In France, I can smoke in a restaurant - is that the right thing to do?

You do have a choice , get a water filter or move to Europe.
It is not a government conspiracy theory, they (and dentists) are actually trying to look after people here.

I've read that countries in the EU put fluoride in their salt instead of their water, so if anyone wants to bang on about Europe not putting fluoride in their water you better check other potential sources for adding fluoride before you compare them.

Yezzy said:

I've read that countries in the EU put fluoride in their salt instead of their water, so if anyone wants to bang on about Europe not putting fluoride in their water you better check other potential sources for adding fluoride before you compare them.

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Yes, we also have added Iodine in our table salt to so we don't develop thyroid hormone deficiencies.
If not, Cretinism would be a real problem as it is in many third world countries.

Again, another example of good public health policy.
Again, you have a choice, if you don't like public health policy, by Uniodised salt.

Want nice teeth?

Look at nutrition.

Flouride? Dr Price is probably rolling over in his grave!



Dr. Weston A. Price (1870-1948), a Cleveland dentist, has been called the "Charles Darwin of Nutrition." In his search for the causes of dental decay and physical degeneration that he observed in his dental practice, he turned from test tubes and microscopes to unstudied evidence among human beings. Dr. Price sought the factors responsible for fine teeth among the people who had them- the isolated "primitives." The world became his laboratory. As he traveled, his findings led him to the belief that dental caries and deformed dental arches resulting in crowded, crooked teeth and unattractive appearance were merely a sign of physical degeneration, resulting from what he had suspected-nutritional deficiencies.

Price travelled the world over in order to study isolated human groups, including sequestered villages in Switzerland, Gaelic communities in the Outer Hebrides, Eskimos and Indians of North America, Melanesian and Polynesian South Sea Islanders, African tribes, Australian Aborigines, New Zealand Maori and the Indians of South America. Wherever he went, Dr. Price found that beautiful straight teeth, freedom from decay, stalwart bodies, resistance to disease and fine characters were typical of primitives on their traditional diets, rich in essential food factors.

When Dr. Price analyzed the foods used by isolated primitive peoples he found that they provided at least four times the calcium and other minerals, and at least TEN times the fat-soluble vitamins from animal foods such as butter, fish eggs, shellfish and organ meats.

The importance of good nutrition for mothers during pregnancy has long been recognized, but Dr. Price's investigation showed that primitives understood and practiced preconception nutritional programs for both parents. Many tribes required a period of premarital nutrition, and children were spaced to permit the mother to maintain her full health and strength, thus assuring subsequent offspring of physical excellence. Special foods were often given to pregnant and lactating women, as well as to the maturing boys and girls in preparation for future parenthood. Dr. Price found these foods to be very rich in fat soluble vitamins A and D nutrients found only in animal fats.

These primitives with their fine bodies, homogeneous reproduction, emotional stability and freedom from degenerative ills stand forth in sharp contrast to those subsisting on the impoverished foods of civilization-sugar, white flour, pasteurized milk and convenience foods filled with extenders and additives.

The photographs of Dr. Weston Price illustrate the difference in facial structure between those on native diets and those whose parents had adopted the "civilized" diets of devitalized processed foods.


http://www.westonaprice.org/nutritiongreats/price.html

See the photographs at the above site.

moneymajix said:

Want nice teeth?

Look at nutrition.

Flouride? Dr Price is probably rolling over in his grave!



Dr. Weston A. Price (1870-1948), a Cleveland dentist, has been called the "Charles Darwin of Nutrition." In his search for the causes of dental decay and physical degeneration that he observed in his dental practice, he turned from test tubes and microscopes to unstudied evidence among human beings. Dr. Price sought the factors responsible for fine teeth among the people who had them- the isolated "primitives." The world became his laboratory. As he traveled, his findings led him to the belief that dental caries and deformed dental arches resulting in crowded, crooked teeth and unattractive appearance were merely a sign of physical degeneration, resulting from what he had suspected-nutritional deficiencies.

Price travelled the world over in order to study isolated human groups, including sequestered villages in Switzerland, Gaelic communities in the Outer Hebrides, Eskimos and Indians of North America, Melanesian and Polynesian South Sea Islanders, African tribes, Australian Aborigines, New Zealand Maori and the Indians of South America. Wherever he went, Dr. Price found that beautiful straight teeth, freedom from decay, stalwart bodies, resistance to disease and fine characters were typical of primitives on their traditional diets, rich in essential food factors.

When Dr. Price analyzed the foods used by isolated primitive peoples he found that they provided at least four times the calcium and other minerals, and at least TEN times the fat-soluble vitamins from animal foods such as butter, fish eggs, shellfish and organ meats.

The importance of good nutrition for mothers during pregnancy has long been recognized, but Dr. Price's investigation showed that primitives understood and practiced preconception nutritional programs for both parents. Many tribes required a period of premarital nutrition, and children were spaced to permit the mother to maintain her full health and strength, thus assuring subsequent offspring of physical excellence. Special foods were often given to pregnant and lactating women, as well as to the maturing boys and girls in preparation for future parenthood. Dr. Price found these foods to be very rich in fat soluble vitamins A and D nutrients found only in animal fats.

These primitives with their fine bodies, homogeneous reproduction, emotional stability and freedom from degenerative ills stand forth in sharp contrast to those subsisting on the impoverished foods of civilization-sugar, white flour, pasteurized milk and convenience foods filled with extenders and additives.

The photographs of Dr. Weston Price illustrate the difference in facial structure between those on native diets and those whose parents had adopted the "civilized" diets of devitalized processed foods.


http://www.westonaprice.org/nutritiongreats/price.html

See the photographs at the above site.

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Nutrition is everything. Raw Organic Foods are the key to Great Health.

I know one guy who switched to a 100% raw organic food diet and has had his wisdom teeth that have been pulled out start regrowing after 6 months, but I'm a kook so don't bother listening to me.

Dr Christophers biggest complaint from people that started getting proper nutrition and using his herbal tooth powder was that people fillings were falling out because the Teeth had started to repair themselves.

Opinions are like a**h**es -
Everybody has one.........

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That's an interesting analogy BraceFace....

Yezzy said:

I've read that countries in the EU put fluoride in their salt instead of their water, so if anyone wants to bang on about Europe not putting fluoride in their water you better check other potential sources for adding fluoride before you compare them.

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You are right!! And milk with added fluoride is used in some other countries especially the third world. It is recommended by the World Heath Organisation.

http://www.fluorideinformation.com/topic.aspx?main=6&sub=603#1

That and Bravefaces comments have pushed me over the line to the pro side.
The AMA and dentists approve it small amounts are obviously necessary in our diet, as is also the case with Magnesium and Iodine. All will poison with large concentrations but are essential for human health.

Also there is a real danger with fluoride tablets for kids who take too many. I can see why the water supply method is much more preferable.

I prefer to have a choice.


"The last of the human freedoms - to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way."

Dr. Viktor E(mil) Frankl

Kimosabi said:

Nutrition is everything. Raw Organic Foods are the key to Great Health.

I know one guy who switched to a 100% raw organic food diet and has had his wisdom teeth that have been pulled out start regrowing after 6 months, but I'm a kook so don't bother listening to me.

Dr Christophers biggest complaint from people that started getting proper nutrition and using his herbal tooth powder was that people fillings were falling out because the Teeth had started to repair themselves.

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I agree with what you're saying Kimosabi, but would like to add that nutrition is only half of the picture, the other half is what we stay away from. Stay away from drugs (medical and "recreational"), and everything added to your food and drink that does not naturally belong there. That includes Fluoride. The answer is always simple- do what nature intended. One of the best guides to what to eat that I have ever come across is the Macrobiotic principle: "Only eat what is locally produced and in season".

Yeti said:

I agree with what you're saying Kimosabi, but would like to add that nutrition is only half of the picture, the other half is what we stay away from. Stay away from drugs (medical and "recreational"), and everything added to your food and drink that does not naturally belong there. That includes Fluoride. The answer is always simple- do what nature intended. One of the best guides to what to eat that I have ever come across is the Macrobiotic principle: "Only eat what is locally produced and in season".

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Water naturally contains fluoride.

Yeti said:

I agree with what you're saying Kimosabi, but would like to add that nutrition is only half of the picture, the other half is what we stay away from. Stay away from drugs (medical and "recreational"), and everything added to your food and drink that does not naturally belong there. That includes Fluoride. The answer is always simple- do what nature intended. One of the best guides to what to eat that I have ever come across is the Macrobiotic principle: "Only eat what is locally produced and in season".

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Interestingly, since I've started with locally grown Raw Organic foods following what Dr Schulze recommends, I'm off all pharmaceutical drugs including asthma and acid reflux medications, lost weight and feel 5 years younger. Since I've been doing hot/cold showers, much of my Back Pain has disappeared as well requiring less visits to the Chiropractor.

I've also got a Vitamin C shower filter that cuts out the chlorine in the shower water and have been switching to all natural soaps, shampoo's, conditioners, washing powders, cleaning products etc.

I have reverse osmosis for drinking water and I will be getting a whole house water filter to strip out chlorine and floride etc from the mains water supply for the whole house.

Another interesting side point, the government in America is now requiring that all foods including organic are to be irradiated and sprayed with flouride(I can't find the article at the moment but I will post it when I do).

Yezzy said:

Water naturally contains fluoride.

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Bull****

Rain water DOES NOT contain fluoride.

Ground water often, but not always contains fluoride. The levels vary from none to toxic, requiring treatment.

Whiskers said:

Bull****

Rain water DOES NOT contain fluoride.

Ground water often, but not always contains fluoride. The levels vary from none to toxic, requiring treatment.

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Yeah, I could have qualified it a bit better. But the point still stands that water, in most cases, naturally contains fluoride.

BraceFace said:

you state you were in a Fluoridated area for one month (as an adult?).
Fluoride in the water supply does not cause extrinsic staining to the teeth either. Other minerals might.



Your beliefs may be misguided by incorrect "information" given to you by your dentist at the time.

Fluorosis is a common finding these days, but for the most part it is a minor cosmetic issue.

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So now you - an anonymous poster on a stock forum who gives no indication of his/her qualifications in the area (perhaps you are a dentist, perhaps a government employee?) knows more about what happened to my teeth than my dentist!!!

A minor cosmetic issue? OK, fine, if you think completely brown, rotten looking teeth are a minor issue.

Kimosabi said:

Interestingly, since I've started with locally grown Raw Organic foods following what Dr Schulze recommends, I'm off all pharmaceutical drugs including asthma and acid reflux medications, lost weight and feel 5 years younger. Since I've been doing hot/cold showers, much of my Back Pain has disappeared as well requiring less visits to the Chiropractor.

I've also got a Vitamin C shower filter that cuts out the chlorine in the shower water and have been switching to all natural soaps, shampoo's, conditioners, washing powders, cleaning products etc.

I have reverse osmosis for drinking water and I will be getting a whole house water filter to strip out chlorine and floride etc from the mains water supply for the whole house.

Another interesting side point, the government in America is now requiring that all foods including organic are to be irradiated and sprayed with flouride(I can't find the article at the moment but I will post it when I do).

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Kimosabi, where did you obtain the reverse osmosis filter for your drinking water? In the regional centre where I live no one seems to have heard of them.

Kimosabi

Congratulations on your good sense and good health.

Helping the planet too!

Well done!

Julia said:

So now you - an anonymous poster on a stock forum who gives no indication of his/her qualifications in the area (perhaps you are a dentist, perhaps a government employee?) knows more about what happened to my teeth than my dentist!!!

A minor cosmetic issue? OK, fine, if you think completely brown, rotten looking teeth are a minor issue.

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I do not feel that I need to state my qualifications , but my forum nickname might give you a clue.

Julia information on Fluorosis is not part of a secret dentist's club. Just do a google search or even Wikepedia search or go down to your local Medical/Dental library and have a read.
What you described on this forum as Fluorosis affecting your teeth (as best as I can tell), simply isn't. Unless of course your permanent teeth were brown and mottled when they first erupted around age 6-7 yrs.

You have taken me out of context.
Mild Fluorosis (as is commonly seen as small white blotches on incisor teeth) is a minor cosmetic issue, not a dental health issue. Even severe Fluorosis , which is exceedingly rare and is usually misdiagnosed from Amelogenesis Imperfecta or Enamel Hypoplasia (which have nothing to do with Fluoride) is cosmetic. These teeth are NOT rotten, they just dont look very nice, which by definition, is a cosmetic prblem.
Again, these disorder's manifest themselves in children, not adults.

I agree with other poster's comments about nutrition and good oral hygiene, these are very important when you look at dental health holistically. But unfortunately as a rule, most of the Australian populalation cannot or choose not to maintain good diets and not eat junk food, brush and floss twice a day and see their dentist twice a year for checks. That is an undeniable fact. Fluoridating the water means that the impact of our personal dental shortcomings is minimised and public (and private) dental health costs and waiting lists do not skyrocket.

Yeti said:

That's an interesting analogy BraceFace....

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Actually it's Dirty Harryism.

I too have an opinion, as I have a bum. And proud of it

On this particular topic, I have a stong scientific opinion and I can't let some of the flase and misleading claims go by without comment.

I feel so much better now that's off my chest(and teeth)

BraceTheFace

One A...H...'s opinion, as you say.

On this particular topic, I have a stong scientific opinion and I can't let some of the flase and misleading claims go by without comment.

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I feel so much better now that's off my chest(and teeth)

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Glad that s... is on your teeth and not mine.

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