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Flood of migrants overwhelm Australia's borders

actually you have rarely, if ever, provided any sort of links or supporting evidence for your frequently innacurate claims.
If you are going to claim something I have posted is incorrect, as you did earlier, you have the equal opportunity to do so.
You could have cited from here:
http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/DetailsPage/3415.02008?OpenDocument
But these data substantiate my points, so perhaps you ran into trouble!

helicart, I suggest you read Dr Mukherjee definive works in these areas. I summarised the odd 100 pages of his seminal work on this topic to make it easy for you and a few other to understand.
 
actually the data doesn't substantiate your points. according to the data, of the 932,000 odd born overseas in a non english speaking country, around 176,000 claim government benefits as their primary source of income. thats 18% or so of migrants welfare dependent at a time when everyone was going on about a labour shortage.

compare to 430,000 migrants from english speaking nations only around 40,000 claim government benefits as primary income source. around 9%. so according to the ABS figures you pointed me to, migrants from non english speaking countries are twice as likely to rely on welfare as a primary source of income. it would be interesting to break it down further by race and / or area to see if we can pinpoint any specific racial groupings such as vietnamese, lebanese and so on, then further tailor our immigration policies to take this into account.

oh wait, it's already been done. i know you aren't big on reading the links people give you rob, especially when they disagree with your worldview so i'll just summarise the opening line for you -


that ABS site is a good source by the way rob, you should read it sometime.
 
helicart, I suggest you read Dr Mukherjee definive works in these areas. I summarised the odd 100 pages of his seminal work on this topic to make it easy for you and a few other to understand.


well it is all retrospective isn't it. you are arguing that from now, we adopt higher levels of migration and a softer approach....(because you argue migrants have a net beneficial effect.)

The European countries I mentioned above are ahead of us on that.
I suggest you familiarize yourself with the issues they face now.
You might want to throw Denmark into the equation as well.

Last year, England's Labor was looking at adopting John Howard's approach.

And Chairman, if you can pull your head out of all that socialist undergraduate fluff for long enough, have a crack at these


1.
NSW and Victoria are the primary destinations for migrants. If migrants were tax revenue postive and a social and economic asset in every way, why is the NSW govt the biggest economic basket case of all the states, and why is Melbourne infrastructure strained to breaking point?


2.
Higher immigration not an economic magic bullet
My comments about this paper several years ago:

Ross makes 2 interesting points in these articles:

"The first negative (of migration) comes because, although the immigrants have higher personal productivity than the average existing worker, adding the immigrants would cause the overall productivity of labour to fall.

Why? Because workers' productivity comes mainly from the machines (the capital) they're given to work with, and the capital equipment would now be spread more thinly between more workers. This "capital dilution" effect subtracts 0.5 percentage points (or $238 a year) from real GDP per person.

The second negative comes from an increase in the current account deficit. Immigration adds more to imports than exports, ..........The higher current account deficit requires us to borrow more from foreigners, which adds to our interest payments to them. These balance of payments effects subtract 0.7 percentage points (or $339 a year) from real GDP per person."


So, immigration is not improving Australian productivity or GDP per capita, ergo neither tax revenue per capita.

Hence, recent immigration has not generated enough wealth to upgrade infrastructure in alignment with its demand for such......


3.
Paid Work: Migrants in the labour force
(if you have an update on employment rates of humanitarian migrants, I am all ears)

"Results from a new longitudinal survey of migrants arriving in Australia
3 shows that immigrants who arrived between September 1993 and August 1995 had an unemployment rate of 38% and an overall labour force participation rate of 57%about five months after arriving. The survey followed the family member who was assessed for migration eligibility. About 18 months after arrival, these same migrants had an unemployment rate of 21% and a participation rate of 63%.4

The success with which new migrants find jobs does vary with migration category. This is a predictable outcome given that migration categories select on skills for the skilled and family concessional migrants, whereas family preferential and humanitarian migrants are not tested on skills. Consequently, new humanitarian migrants had the highest unemployment rate (81%) among migrants who had been resident in Australia for about five months. However, this had reduced to 50% about 18 months after arrival. Among family migrants and skilled independent migrants the unemployment rates generally had halved over the period between the two interviews. For employer-nominated migrants and business-skills migrants the unemployment rate increased fractionally, though the rate in both cases was the lowest overall (3% to 4%).4
Among new migrants who were not currently employed, nearly half stated that their main problem in finding work was difficulty with the English language. A much smaller proportion (12%) considered that there were not enough jobs available. Among new migrants who had found work, 12% stated that English language difficulty had been a problem, while a quarter stated that they had no particular problem finding work."
 

Saying it doesn't make it so. Check Immigration Dept website or Centrelink if you're not satisfied with the link I offered.
Regards
Julia
Perhaps I should have read Julia's link instead of asking an innocent question.
 
actually the data doesn't substantiate your points.
I never claimed migrants from non-English countries did better.
Nor did I claim that the unemployment experience of recently arrived migrants was better than than the average for all Australians.
I am grateful for the work you have done to elaborate these differences.
 
well it is all retrospective isn't it. you are arguing that from now, we adopt higher levels of migration and a softer ....
Detailed data are difficult to source. The most recent data are at the ABS link I posted earlier.
In relation to what I am "arguing", in this thread it will be mostly that common misconceptions lead to generalizations that ultimately are found to be without strong - or any - foundation.
Your 2nd point is a good demonstration of what I would challenge. It's so logically flawed it becomes laughable.
 

My 2nd point is validated by my first and third points, in addition to the experience of advanced European welfare economies that naively followed your bleeding heart line of taking in more migrants carte blanche....

According to your line, if a little of something (humanitarian migrant intake) is good, then we should have a lot more..... You and your equally ignorant ASF minions would be laughed out of Europe with that line of undergraduate twaddle.

You really have no idea why infrastructure isn't keeping up with population growth do you.....
 
Back to the topic , how many boats loads of illegal immigrants would you say enough is enough e.g. 50 , 100 , 1000 ?
You can call them refugees if you like ..

Looks like rederob missed the above , so lets try again .

Come on how many ?
 
Your second point should stand alone. The first sentence of that point is the key to its logical fallacy.

According to my line our humanitarian intake is meagre according to our nation's wealth. Poorer nations continue to support refugees better than Australia does.

Infrastructure is about commitment and cost, occasionally matched with need. Australia recently squandered the best years of its economic history, leaving infrastructure spend significantly to the private sector.
Sometimes a visionary government does a Snowy, or Ord, or Burdekin. But nowadays the bean counters intervene and put the kibosh on nation building infrastructure. Except for a national water grid, Australia has more than adequate infrastructure to accommodate a significantly larger population than it has. China is living proof of what can be done to put infrastructure in place, if need be.
 

Which proves you want Australia to downgrade its wages and std of living to that of the majority of mainland Chinese........

Your last 24 hours of posts have shown you are a shallow vessel with a one line mantra Chairman....you really don't have any depth or breadth to your beliefs at all. I thought you would make a worthy adversary....but I was wrong....You have convinced me to change none of my views.....you just repeat the same tired hypnogogic line....time after time after time...

well, that's my lunch break

but I presume yours goes a couple of hours longer Chairman, in that flexi public service job you've got...
 
rederob,
Your second point should stand alone. The first sentence of that point is the key to its logical fallacy.
A logical fallacy. Now that is words working.

Infrastructure is about commitment and cost, occasionally matched with need. Australia recently squandered the best years of its economic history, leaving infrastructure spend significantly to the private sector.
The beauty of capitalism is that private enterprise does what a Marxist society would do. Now, that is not to say governments should not do anything about infrastructure. I support any goverment funding for infrastructure and the like. Giving handouts just to secure votes is totally wrong and squanders wealth.

Our last great leader was Sir Robert menzies. Since then, downhill.

Australia does not have more than adequate infrastructure for a larger population. As has been noted before the majority of immigrants go to Melbourne or Sydney to live in their ghettos or slums if you like, further straining public transport, locking up roads with polluting worn out cars, and taking up that which the underfunded hospitals cannot support.

China can undertake infrastructure projects at a speedy rate with cheap labor. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6945972.stm
Due to globalisation, the wealth being ammassed by China is funding those projects - to the detriment of other nations that send their industries there.

The part above in red is typical propagandish spin, similar to what you would hear from a politician.
 
Refugees 'too poor' to pay smugglers


An economic asylum seeker is one who would prefer to get welfare in Australia to working at home. Unfortunately this applies to a few billion people.
 
Refugees 'too poor' to pay smugglers



An economic asylum seeker is one who would prefer to get welfare in Australia to working at home. Unfortunately this applies to a few billion people.

God.....after reading this, David Marr is going to have a heart attack, after his nervous breakdown.... hahahhahaha
 
methinks you are too generous Snake.

All fallacies are logical by nature. Chairman's redundant phraseology just reveal his compromised education in science, philosophy and logic.
Perhaps I should have used the sarcasm icon Helicart, but I can see how it will be misinterpreted.
Cheers..
 
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