Flood of migrants overwhelm Australia's borders
- Thread starter Garpal Gumnut
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Uh 'Guru', You there? The graph has a heading. It states All Crimes presumably in Australia because I don't know why helicart would post stats from another country . What more do you want the graph to say, name every crime in the Crimes Act!!
Would be nice to see something a little more current but these stats are not always easy to find. I'm tipping the representation would be very similar today with the middle eastern cultures still right up the top especially organised crime involving drugs, rebirthing of cars, credit card/identity fraud etc.
I would like to know the source of the statistics, or do you just believe any graph that is posted on the internet? For all I know someone could have made it up. I could make a similar graph in Photoshop in about 10 minutes.
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The reason more recent data is not found is because it does not exist!
Only Victoria publishes country of birth data for offenders. WA uses a "looks like" identification process and classifies offenders on appearance into 10 groups.
Australian born rank very high in the crime statistics - 10th out of the 26 countries listed.
That aside, here are the "facts" in relation to migrants:
1. The crime rate of foreign-born population is lower than that of the native-born
2. The arrest rate of immigrant groups varies widely and also differs from arrest rate in their country of origin
3. The crime rate of second generation of migrants is higher than that of their
parents’ generation and this rate approximates the crime rates of the native-born population
4. Members of the foreign-born population are victims of crime more often than members of the native-born population, and
5. Some foreign-born groups are involved in organised crime.
You actually asked what the statistics were based on not for the source but you'll find it below anyway.
I haven't checked if Helicart owns the web page below Stockguru but I'm tipping he wouldn't bother going to the trouble you suggest.
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=991&page=0
Like ColB says, the govt and all its agencies have a policy of suppressing ethnicity in crime reporting stats....they obviously think the general public "can't handle the truth" and that public servants are right to treat the public like an innocent young flight stewardess on an Air Force plane.
It is difficult to get up to date figures.....and I am still waiting to see the figures propping up Chairman Red pomposity...
Unfortunately, concealing the truth ALWAYS makes things worse....the public can't be snowed forever.....and this same elitist BS is now being played by Rudd et al in relation to boat people.
And almost every week he has to do a policy backflip......reconciliation, computer for every child, scrap work choices, ETS, pension cuts, economic stimulus vs infrastructure spending, border security cuts, military spending cuts....it just goes on and on like a slow motion train wreck.....one thing after another introduced, then backpeddled....
The charts' sources are in their properties....I have no reason to conceal anything.....unlike Chairman Red who still hasn't managed to find the data he bases his righteous indignation and slandering of other forumites on....
It is difficult to get up to date figures.....and I am still waiting to see the figures propping up Chairman Red pomposity...
Unfortunately, concealing the truth ALWAYS makes things worse....the public can't be snowed forever.....and this same elitist BS is now being played by Rudd et al in relation to boat people.
And almost every week he has to do a policy backflip......reconciliation, computer for every child, scrap work choices, ETS, pension cuts, economic stimulus vs infrastructure spending, border security cuts, military spending cuts....it just goes on and on like a slow motion train wreck.....one thing after another introduced, then backpeddled....
The charts' sources are in their properties....I have no reason to conceal anything.....unlike Chairman Red who still hasn't managed to find the data he bases his righteous indignation and slandering of other forumites on....
Red, I don't doubt the authenticity of your post above but we all need to provide a source URL when we post data that is not merely our opinion.
I can tell you having spent several years in an intelligence environment the incidence of middle eastern persons (Lebanese in particular) involved in organised crime such as vehicle re-birthing, drug crimes, and identity fraud to name a few far outweighed the incidence of Australian involvement in similar crimes.
Sorry if the research of someone whose claim to fame is that he is a frequent "Letters to the Editor" contributor does not impress me.
He basically says that he invented his own indicator based on criteria of his own choosing. What are this guys qualifications again?
Additionally, there is no explanation of what the figures on the y axis mean.
This is not scientific research.
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I provide links from time to time. Your challenge is to falsify my claims, which should be rather easy given your cockiness.
I admit to having difficulty charting criminality by ethnicity in Australia when the data are buried in protected archival records for most States and Territories.
Still can't leave it alone Hey :whip like playing the inquisitor do you
Back to the topic , how many boats loads of illegal immigrants would you say enough is enough e.g. 50 , 100 , 1000 ?
You can call them refugees if you like ..
Julia
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I chose not to respond to this because I was unwilling to become engaged in yet another silly exchange.
Endorse Rederob's info as above.
Anyone genuinely wanting to know this can find all the information on the Centrelink website.
Julia
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I can't speak for other cities, but many Brisbane residents would say we have reached this stage already. Water infrastructure is questionable, restrictions seemingly permanent, health system is choked to disaster point, traffic congestion is unbearable and unemployment is rising.
Quite apart from the question of the social assimilation, the simple physical difficulties above need to be considered.
Guru, Dr Dick Crane's 'claim to fame' merely a frequent "Letters to the Editor" contributor doesn't impress you. You've already highlighted he's a General Surgeon, Endoscopist and Medico-Legal Consultant hardly the sort of qualifications any of these boat people are bringing to Australia. You've already decided on goodness knows what basis that his article is flawed because "there is no explanation of what the figures on the y axis mean."
Did you read that his statistical analysis was based on figures provided by Australian Institute of Criminology (AIC) and the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) for the years 1991-1998. His views are obviously too right wing for you.
Have a read of the whole article [http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=991&page=0] and see if you can find some reputable data that contradicts Dr Crane's findings and then perhaps you might go some small way to proving your own research capability. Granted, that there will always be some articles that are biased (Pro-Immigration/Anti-Immigration) and we need to be aware of that but on the basis of my experience I have little reason to doubt Crane's findings.
I am not anti immigration. Like helicart and Dissaray point out there are genuine reasons why we need to be very careful as to who we let in and how many.
Regards CB
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ColB
AIC publications are typically my source as they integrate State-by-State data.
helicart's posted charts have dubious integrity in that only one State publishes criminality by country of birth. Aside from that, the statistical error in extracting criminality/ethnicity from other available data series is so high as to render any conclusions meaningless.
By the way, most crimes are not reported, and of those that are, an overwhelming majority do not lead to a conviction (because nobody was charged in the first place).
AIC publications are typically my source as they integrate State-by-State data.
helicart's posted charts have dubious integrity in that only one State publishes criminality by country of birth. Aside from that, the statistical error in extracting criminality/ethnicity from other available data series is so high as to render any conclusions meaningless.
By the way, most crimes are not reported, and of those that are, an overwhelming majority do not lead to a conviction (because nobody was charged in the first place).
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actually you have rarely, if ever, provided any sort of links or supporting evidence for your frequently innacurate claims. you spout your opinion as if it were fact then have the gall to demand everyone provide evidence for their own points of view. what is even more remarkable is when you are confronted with facts and statistics that disagree with your opinion you immediately challenge the data and discredit it based on whatever basis you can dream up.
it is very difficult to take you seriously, not only because of your hypocrisy and your bigotry but because of your self-supposed moral and intellectual superiority which is thoroughly undeserved. i am afraid you are the one failing to see the big picture and given your refugee background it is obvious you are extremely biased on this issue and are unwilling to consider any opinion other than your own, wrong as it is. you just keep toeing the party line, keep your hands over your ears, shout lalalala and everything will be ok.
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knock yourself out
Chairman Red, how about a link for points 1-5.
as well as the centerlink website, you better include the tax revenue that is required for
- fighting crime by 1st and 2nd generation migrants above the level of crime committed by non migrants.
- border security
- running burns units in multiple hospitals.....the cost of this would blow some of you away...
- running detention centres and repairing damage done by the detained.
- medical treatment for self inflicted wounds by detainees.
- govt funded ethnic media
- govt funded ethnic integration programs
- centrelink overhead for non english speaking people and distressed migrants.
- govt housing for migrants
- cost of providing separate muslim prayer rooms in hospitals
- time and revenue cost of govt liaizing with neighbour countries to stop flow of boaties and other illegals into Australia
- aid given to Indonesia and Malaysia to stem flow of illegals to Australia.
Gees, far cry from what Anglos got when they came out here in the 1800s.
as well as the centerlink website, you better include the tax revenue that is required for
- fighting crime by 1st and 2nd generation migrants above the level of crime committed by non migrants.
- border security
- running burns units in multiple hospitals.....the cost of this would blow some of you away...
- running detention centres and repairing damage done by the detained.
- medical treatment for self inflicted wounds by detainees.
- govt funded ethnic media
- govt funded ethnic integration programs
- centrelink overhead for non english speaking people and distressed migrants.
- govt housing for migrants
- cost of providing separate muslim prayer rooms in hospitals
- time and revenue cost of govt liaizing with neighbour countries to stop flow of boaties and other illegals into Australia
- aid given to Indonesia and Malaysia to stem flow of illegals to Australia.
Gees, far cry from what Anglos got when they came out here in the 1800s.
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some vaild points there chairman tall poppy
So true....and inter-ethnic crime in particular goes unreported because the innocents are too scared of the stand over tactics used (Telopea St Boys).....and don't have faith in the police who have a reputation for not taking ethnic crime victims seriously (assaults against Indian taxi drivers in Melbourne) nor ethnic criminals due to loonie leftie legalese like Racial Vilification Act which makes it harder to prosecute....
And why don't your points above about statistical variance equally apply to your views Chairman Red?
And Chairman Red, seeing you think migrants and asylum seekers carte blanche are kosher, your views must apply equally to England, Netherlands, France, and Germany......now let's see you argue they don't have crime issues with migrants....
