FFR - Firefly Resources

krisbarry · 7 March 2008

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

Here is a great example of options being called shares. The correct name is share options.

So I am clearly not misleading anyone by calling options, shares, they are shares in the simpliest form. They still represent a part share in a company.

Source:

http://www.ausindustry.gov.au/library/PooledDevFundInfopaper420031015102849.pdf

krisbarry · 7 March 2008

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

Here is yet another example of options being called shares. Its a "Employee share option plan"

Source:

http://www.findlaw.com.au/articles/default.asp?task=read&id=5304&site=GN

Joe Blow · 7 March 2008

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

Stop_the_clock said:
Here is a great example of options being called shares. The correct name is share options.

So I am clearly not misleading anyone by calling options, shares, they are shares in the simpliest form. They still represent a part share in a company.

Source:

http://www.ausindustry.gov.au/library/PooledDevFundInfopaper420031015102849.pdf

You are wrong Kris.

I think it's time you reviewed some stock market basics from the ASX.

http://www.asx.com.au/investor/shares/getting_started/sharemarket_basics.htm

http://www.asx.com.au/investor/options/index.htm

Options are not shares. In the context of this BMY entitlement offer, the options give you the right to buy FPO shares at 15c. Also, I would like to note that the word 'options' did not even appear once in your initial post. Just 'free shares'.

Here is the relevant part of the announcement:

The Entitlements Issue will be offered to existing shareholders on the basis of one (1) new share for every two (2) shares held at the record date at an issue price of $0.14 per share (Share) to raise approximately $2.57m (before costs). For every Share issued there will be granted for no additional consideration one (1) quoted option, exercisable at $0.15 each, with an expiry date of 31 January 2010 (Options). Based on the Company’s current issued capital the Entitlements Issue will result in 18,348,958 Shares and Options being issued.

...and then here is your post:

Stop_the_clock said:
Whoever said there is no such thing as a free lunch, well there is. We have free shares on offer and not a buyer in sight. What is wrong?

Well I am going to buy some more shares today, topping up on my holding to get more free shares

Misrepresentation. Don't do it again.

krisbarry · 7 March 2008

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

Here is another example of options being called shares.

Just google "share options" and hundreds of pages of proof come up!

Have I proven my point yet, that options are also called shares. Options are a share in a company.

When a company shares itself between investors they buy shares. Shares are fully paid, or options.

source:

http://www2.agsm.edu.au/agsm/web.nsf/Content/AGSMMagazine-Shareoptions

krisbarry · 7 March 2008

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

Well I am sorry, we will have to agree to disagree on this one I will no longer argue this point

doctorj · 8 March 2008

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

Stop_the_clock said:
Well I am sorry, we will have to agree to disagree on this one I will no longer argue this point

And in doing cease looking like an ass monkey.

Either deliberately misleading or you need to go back to Finance 101.

wayneL · 8 March 2008

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

Stop_the_clock said:
When a company goes into trading halt both shares halt, the heads (fully paid shares, and the options). They are both closely related.

Can anybody else define what an option is?

Am I correct in saying that an option is a part share in a company, whithout the voting rights.

Sorry Kris, but you are way off here.

Options, and in this case call options are: The right, but not the obligation, to buy shares in a particular company, at a particular price, at a particular point of time in the future.

In other words, you do NOT have ownership in any shares unless you exercise your right to buy them, but you still have to buy them at the exercise price.

If you do not exercise your right at the expiry (or before) of the options, you will not end up with anything.

They are a contract, not an equity.

***Options do not convey any ownership in the company***

P.S.

Apologies for the excessive colours, bold, and underlining, but I fear some folk(s) may miss the point without them.

krisbarry · 8 March 2008

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

Why do we call it a share market then?

why does a company share itself to the public to raise money?
(Options are used to raise money, then they are considered to be shares)

Why is the ASX called "the Australian stock/share market?

Why do I call myself a share trader then?

When the media refers to the sharemarket they are reffering to the whole market in a broader sense.

Shares in all forms, all come under the same banner, they are listed on the ASX, under seats and can be traded.

I will continue to call "options", "shares", as that is the banner they fall into.

I have traded options for a few years, and have never thought of them as options and options only. To me they are considered shares, I trade them in exactly the same way as fully paid shares, and I still call myself a share trader, trading shares on the australian share market!

Have I shared my thoughts:

krisbarry · 8 March 2008

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

If options are not shares, then why are they listed under the Australian share market?

Why not set up an options only market, called the Australian Options market, or for short the AOX

That way you would call yourself an options trader, trading options on the options market.

The confusion comes from the lumping of shares and options under the banner of the Australian Share market.

wayneL · 8 March 2008

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

Stop_the_clock said:
Why do we call it a share market then?

why does a company share itself to the public to raise money?
(Options are used to raise money, then they are considered to be shares)

Why is the ASX called "the Australian stock/share market?

Why do I call myself a share trader then?

When the media refers to the sharemarket they are reffering to the whole market in a broader sense.

Shares in all forms, all come under the same banner, they are listed on the ASX, under seats and can be traded.

I will continue to call "options", "shares", as that is the banner they fall into.

I have traded options for a few years, and have never thought of them as options and options only. To me they are considered shares, I trade them in exactly the same way as fully paid shares, and I still call myself a share trader, trading shares on the australian share market!

Have I shared my thoughts:

You have also shared faulty logic, fuzzy thinking and further evidence of unintelligent stubbornness.

You can choose to be wrong, that's your prerogative (and not in the least surprising). But it's important that readers of this forum know the difference between a share and an option on a share; most of whom need no education in this regard.

Unbelievable!

happytown · 8 March 2008

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

Stop_the_clock said:
...

Have I shared my thoughts:

indeed you have shared your thoughts on the topic, stop the clock, such that now you are left with very few options

cheers

krisbarry · 8 March 2008

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

We are both right, we have all found proof to support our cases, there is no wrong or right answer here. Just a good case for more healthy discussion.

Technically speaking Joe, yourself, Kennas and doctorj are correct, options are not shares, but in the broader sense of they market, they are and I have found much proof that opitions are called shares also.

Share options do exsist!

Just like the housing market, the bears will find proof that its collapsing, and the bulls will find proof its rising.

I consider myself to be intelligent, and have put a strong case forward, with proof.

wayneL · 8 March 2008

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

Stop_the_clock said:
We are both right, we have all found proof to support our cases, there is no wrong or right answer here. Just a good case for more healthy discussion.

Technically speaking Joe, yourself, Kennas and doctorj are correct, options are not shares, but in the broader sense of they market, they are and I have found much proof that opitions are called shares also.

Share options do exsist!

Just like the housing market, the bears will find proof that its collapsing, and the bulls will find proof its rising.

I consider myself to be intelligent, and have put a strong case forward, with proof.

No you haven't.

A share option is not a share, it's an option on a share.

If it is a share, why then do you need to exercise your right to buy a share if you already have a share? That concept is completely asinine.

I repeat - Unbelievable!

krisbarry · 8 March 2008

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

Here is a simple example:

You enter a petrol station to buy some petrol. The choice is leaded or unleaded. You buy unleaded.

Now technically speaking you are buying petrol, but their are two different petrols to choose from.

Same example you buy shares listed on the Australian Share market. The choice is either fully paid shares or option shares. you buy option shares.

Now technically speaking you have bought shares, not the fully paid kind.

Same example, same choice, same outcome!

krisbarry · 8 March 2008

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

They are called option shares, for a reason.

(1) You have the option to trade them on market for profit/loss, before expiration date.

(2) Or the option to exercise them into fully paid shares.

Again both examples are called shares.

krisbarry · 8 March 2008

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

Option shares are shares in their own right, and stand alone from the fully paid variety. Trading under the code o, oa, ob, oc etc etc.

They can be bought/sold/or exercised on a market called the what...the Australian share market.

Just like the petrol station that sells a variety of petrols some leaded, some undleaded. Its all petrol.

krisbarry · 8 March 2008

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

So again I stand by my statement that BMY is offering free shares.

Buying the fully paid shares (BMY), gives investors the right to have some free option shares given to them (BMYO).

The choice is up them if they decided to trade their option shares (BMYO) for a profit or loss, before the expiry date.

OR

Convert (exercise) these option shares (BMYO) into fully paid ordinary shares (BMY) at a cost of 15 cents per share.

prawn_86 · 8 March 2008

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

Once again STC, options are not shares.

How many times does this have to be said. Your petrol example is just ridiculous and has nothing to do with financial markets.

An options is a right, but not an obligation, to purchase a company share at some point in the future, at a designated price.

They are not included in general market cap calculaations, unless you take into account the money that will be recieved from those options (income).

They have an expiry dates, shares do not.

They have no voting rights, shares do.

Saying that BMY is giving away free shares is totally misleading. They are giving free options, in order to possibly have a cash inflow at a given expiry date (or before that date). Many companies do this, and no one else states they are giving away free shares.

Either go do some proper reading and learning or accept the fact that you are wrong.

If you have a problem with moderation please contact us directly, rather than derailing this thread.

krisbarry · 8 March 2008

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

I accept defeat, the general view from all mods is that I am incorrect and have mislead, thats kewl, I can accept this.

Can a mod explain what share options are then?

Just google "share options". Why is there such a term if they don't exist?

prawn_86 · 8 March 2008

Re: BMY - Brumby Resources

As had been said before...

They are options to buy a share. Not an actual share themselves.

Just as the name 'share option' suggests.

FFR - Firefly Resources

krisbarry

krisbarry

Joe Blow

Administrator

krisbarry

krisbarry

doctorj

Hatchet Moderator

wayneL

VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!

krisbarry

krisbarry

wayneL

VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!

happytown

krisbarry

wayneL

VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!

krisbarry

krisbarry

krisbarry

krisbarry

prawn_86

Mod: Call me Dendrobranchiata

krisbarry

prawn_86

Mod: Call me Dendrobranchiata

Similar threads

FFR - Firefly Resources

Administrator

Hatchet Moderator

VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!

VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!

VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!

Mod: Call me Dendrobranchiata

Mod: Call me Dendrobranchiata

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency