Esuperfund SMSF brokers

[Mr Z]

Re: Esuperfunds SMSF brokers

He didn't set it up, it already existed. eSuper where charging me more than the 650 std fee (550?!) at the time because I would not go to Mac Bank but I was with their original suggested accounts, they changed the rules a few times early in the piece. The fund is extremely well organized and not a massive amount of work so that counts I suppose. The fee when they sold my account was 900, is now 500 odd +GST (can get a little higher) and I get to talk to the guy, ask questions etc. At that time the standard eSuper fee was 650, surprised it has gone down, I think it was was 550 when I first went to them, stretching the memory! I think that many rip off SMSFs, have seen silly some quotes for the work involved JMO.

Anyway... it can't hurt to ask your local guy. I am sure many will not be reasonable but some will.



Edit: I don't know where you got 550 from? I was surprised it was that low! I see $699 on their site FWIW, is that wrong?

 

[Mr Z]

Re: Esuperfunds SMSF brokers

Hmmm sorry meant 560 not 550... mental block

 

[awg]

Re: Esuperfunds SMSF brokers

One area which is grey,( to me anyway) is exactly what the auditor is required to do.

My personal accountant is adamant that every transaction, all dividends, SPP, rights issues, etc be individually accounted by him, and that would cost $.

So I went with Esuper.

1st year, all easy, electronic everything.

2nd and subsequent years, I must submit physical copies of all the above, and reconcile them individually off my bank statement, which, while instilling neccesary record-keeping practices, does seem to somewhat defeat the purpose of electronic audit, as well as being a pita

 

[Mr Z]

Re: Esuperfunds SMSF brokers

2nd and subsequent years, I must submit physical copies of all the above, and reconcile them individually off my bank statement, which, while instilling neccesary record-keeping practices, does seem to somewhat defeat the purpose of electronic audit, as well as being a pita

That has not changed by the sounds of it and I do the same setup work for my accountant... annotated statements and the like. I figure it reduces costs and it makes me keep it all nice and organized as I go.

I was with them when it was Needham & Assoc.

 

[awg]

Re: Esuperfunds SMSF brokers

That has not changed by the sounds of it and I do the same setup work for my accountant... annotated statements and the like. I figure it reduces costs and it makes me keep it all nice and organized as I go.

I was with them when it was Needham & Assoc.

Perhaps my memory is letting me down

For the absolute control freak, this site may be of interest.

Shows how one can do own setup and tax return.

He states it is more simple than doing a personal tax return.

That means one would theoretically only need to find an auditor to sign off the accounts, which if records are perfectly presented, should be a tick-and-flick.

http://www.fusioninvesting.com/2009/08/preparing-your-own-self-managed-super-fund-smsf-tax-return/

quite informative, but probably not worth it to try and save the difference between $699 and the auditors fee.

addendum: I was having a closer look at this site, and realised the guy is an ASF poster!

 

[Mr Z]

Re: Esuperfunds SMSF brokers

I find it interesting that your accountant can audit the books. I mean if fraud is taking place is it not likely that the accountant is a part of it or aware of it? Surely and audit demands a third party to 1. check the accountant and 2. the fund management? It seems such a basic thing to me that these functions should be separated!

Yes the tax return should be simple enough contributions, dividends, interest & cap gains... but yeah you would prolly get stung for the audit so why bother. Paying for their insurance I suppose? Actually that begs the question how responsible is the auditor if there is an issue. I know an accountant can say well you signed it, not my problem!

Thanks for the link.

 

[awg]

Re: Esuperfunds SMSF brokers

I believe I may have seen a publication or document that outlines the responsibility of the auditor, trustee and accountant/account preparer, an ATO publication maybe.

There has to be a seperation between the auditor and other parties.

As you can prepare your own accounts and lodge tax return, that means technically, only an independant auditor is needed (I think)

Presumably, auditors are qualified accountants. To my knowledge they are obliged to report any non-compilance with SIS regulation.

I guess their is plenty of potential for fraud, and that has been demonstrated by various early-release scams, especially in the migrant population

 

[Julia]

Re: Esuperfunds SMSF brokers

So your accountant setup your fund and does the tax audit for less then $560/annum? If so that a bloody good deal.

That's extremely cheap. Do you have many transactions? If not, then your accountant has to do minimal reconciliations and would just feed some basic material into his software. But if you've done hundreds of trades I don't see how any accountant could reasonably do it for that amount.

One area which is grey,( to me anyway) is exactly what the auditor is required to do.

My personal accountant is adamant that every transaction, all dividends, SPP, rights issues, etc be individually accounted by him, and that would cost $.

There shouldn't be any grey area about the roles of the accountant and the auditor. Unless there has been a rule change they have to be entirely separate. The whole purpose of having the audit is to protect you, the client, from possible errors or shonkiness by the accountant.

Perhaps my memory is letting me down

For the absolute control freak, this site may be of interest.

Shows how one can do own setup and tax return.

I wouldn't dream of trying to do it myself, considering the heavy penalties by the ATO if the fund is not compliant for any reason. The cost of having it done properly is just a very small % of the fund value.

I find it interesting that your accountant can audit the books. I mean if fraud is taking place is it not likely that the accountant is a part of it or aware of it? Surely and audit demands a third party to 1. check the accountant and 2. the fund management? It seems such a basic thing to me that these functions should be separated!

By law, they must be separate.
My accountant of a few years ago had a great scam going on this, though it all looked quite OK.
She had a cosy arrangement going with her ex-employer who was located in another town, where she assured me she sent off all the records and her completed tax return for the audit. However, one year - despite having all my paperwork etc in plenty of time - she didn't have the return completed prior to the lodgement date, and it still had to be audited. It is (or certainly was then, illegal to lodge a non-audited SF return). I raised hell and she said "oh we can lodge it on the due date anyway because all the auditor actually does is just sign the form I've sent him saying all is OK."!

Apparently the auditor didn't actually even sight the work but received part of what I paid the accountant in reward for putting his signature to the page that says the audit has been properly completed.

Yes the tax return should be simple enough contributions, dividends, interest & cap gains...

It's more complicated than that, especially if you have e.g. stapled securities where the two different components receive different tax treatment. It would certainly not be something I'd feel confident to deal with.

 

[derty]

Re: Esuperfunds SMSF brokers

Edit: I don't know where you got 550 from? I was surprised it was that low! I see $699 on their site FWIW, is that wrong?

You said your accountant did it for 20% less than ESuper, $560 is $20% less than $699

I thought ESuper was $600/year last year, I was surprised to see it has gone up to $699 this year.

 

[Mr Z]

Re: Esuperfunds SMSF brokers

LOL... the 20% was a wet finger in the air estimation! But as it turns out was close....

Hey I am not knocking these guys... my main beef was pre GFC, I saw Mac Bank as a big potential problem and it told them so. They probably thought I was nuts but I reckon if there was no deposit guarantee they'd have been history.

They where muttering about using Commsec accounts back then which I moved to but they never got there so I was all too hard for them. No idea what they use now but you do have to do it their way, it is a sausage factory!

That is another benefit if your accountant is reasonable, you can do what ever you want with accounts etc. As you funds grows that becomes more attractive.

 

[myname]

Re: Esuperfunds SMSF brokers

One area which is grey,( to me anyway) is exactly what the auditor is required to do.

My personal accountant is adamant that every transaction, all dividends, SPP, rights issues, etc be individually accounted by him, and that would cost $.

So I went with Esuper.

1st year, all easy, electronic everything.

2nd and subsequent years, I must submit physical copies of all the above, and reconcile them individually off my bank statement, which, while instilling neccesary record-keeping practices, does seem to somewhat defeat the purpose of electronic audit, as well as being a pita

I thought Esuperfund would pass on all the details to the editor,now you have me more worried.

 

[Mr Z]

Re: Esuperfunds SMSF brokers

They are the auditor no? Should be automatic yes? What ever the setup is now I don't think you need to worry about them doing the job correctly, one thing am I sure of is that they are competent.

 

[awg]

Re: Esuperfunds SMSF brokers

I thought Esuperfund would pass on all the details to the editor,now you have me more worried.

Dont be alarmed.

Perhaps a clarification is in order.

Esuperfund auto reconciles your trades via commsec and anz v2, and has the audit completed on your (the trustees) behalf.

I am not certain the exact mechanism, but made sufficient enquiries to satisfy myself that they are in compliance with regulations

You have to provide dividend statements and a few other things.

Apparently this has always been the case, my mistake.

In the instance of an SMSF, with accounts prepared by your local accountant, my understanding is that all your trades need to be reconciled by them "manually", as opposed to electronically, which is why they charge more.

On a slightly different note,

below are two websites that have some information on the auditing process, which might make things slightly clearer.

I havent read the ATO one, it is a pdf of auditors report

http://www.ato.gov.au/superfunds/content.asp?doc=/content/46218.htm


However the other link, is to an independant auditing outfit.

http://www.manageyoursuper.com.au/

If you follow their internal menu, you will see they charge $330, and the document list displays exactly what you need to provide for an audit, which is quite similar, but has more requirements, than what I submit.

As one of the blogger respondents said, SMSF are all covered by SIS regulations, and work by the same rules.

DYOR..I am not qualified to give advice, nor am I affiliated with anyone, but am a satisfied esuper client.

The main reason I am satisfied is that I have dropped my management fees from over 1% to less than 0.1%

I always suggest that one should clarify all outstanding questions by calling or emailing the outfit concerned

 

[Mr Z]

Re: Esuperfunds SMSF brokers

In the instance of an SMSF, with accounts prepared by your local accountant, my understanding is that all your trades need to be reconciled by them "manually", as opposed to electronically, which is why they charge more.

Yes that is logical but not my experience so far, he is cheaper so I'm not going to press the issue! Having said that my fund does not trade that much so that is probably the main reason.

 

[myname]

Re: Esuperfunds SMSF brokers

Yes that is logical but not my experience so far, he is cheaper so I'm not going to press the issue! Having said that my fund does not trade that much so that is probably the main reason.

I dont get it. If u are not with Esuperfund ,why are you reading this forum . Not that I mind because its good to read the reviews from all. I found it because I am interested in perhaps using them.

 

[Julia]

Re: Esuperfunds SMSF brokers

I dont get it. If u are not with Esuperfund ,why are you reading this forum .

That's a bit silly. Most people who are interested in Super will read this thread.
The recent discussion has been to do with using an online organisation such as Esuperfund as distinct from using an accountant. Without comments from those of us who use accountants, it wouldn't be much of a discussion.

 

[Mr Z]

Re: Esuperfunds SMSF brokers

I dont get it. If u are not with Esuperfund ,why are you reading this forum . Not that I mind because its good to read the reviews from all. I found it because I am interested in perhaps using them.

Ex customer, I started with a reference and it went on from there.

 

[myname]

Re: Esuperfunds SMSF brokers

Ex customer, I started with a reference and it went on from there.

Thanks .I was just interested .This is all new to me.

 

[myname]

Re: Esuperfunds SMSF brokers

Thanks .I was just interested .This is all new to me.

Any new customers with Esuperfund .I am wondering how many have signed up this year and how are they finding it.

 

[So_Cynical]

Re: Esuperfunds SMSF brokers

I have a question for SMSF'ers

The fees paid to accountants/Esuperfund etc...how is that handled tax wise, is it deductible next year like the fee a tax agent charges for a personal return.?