Equititrust?

[No Trust]

Director's Personal Assets

Does anyone know if Equititrust Directors are selling personal assets as a result of Equititrust's financial problems?? Surely buy now the contagion must have spread to personal assets and outstanding loans to banks as Equititrust’s future does not look too certain…

In any event the sale proceeds should be sequestered in favour of the Equititrust investors who have lost tens of millions of dollars due to Equititrust negligence and gamble on “King Con”…

 

[No Trust]

Whats going on at Insight Equity

It seems that Wayne McIvor, Mark McIvor’s brother has disappeared from the Insight Equity Website as a director...

What’s going on with the McIvor boys... Has this got anything to do with ASIC or any future class action against the present and former directors of Equititrust...

The contagion may be spreading far and wide...

 

[kostag]

Re: Director's Personal Assets

one would expect that the as the true status of the company has been known for 2 or more years by Directors, that arranagments would have been underway well before any admissions.

I beleive that in correspondence with Borrowers etc, there is ample evidence which will emerge that will show authorities that Equititrust knew of their valuation crisis well before they withdrew any PDS statements.

Does anyone know if Equititrust Directors are selling personal assets as a result of Equititrust's financial problems?? Surely buy now the contagion must have spread to personal assets and outstanding loans to banks as Equititrust’s future does not look too certain…

In any event the sale proceeds should be sequestered in favour of the Equititrust investors who have lost tens of millions of dollars due to Equititrust negligence and gamble on “King Con”…

 

[No Trust]

ASIC

ASIC have not been investigating Equititrust for nothing... More will be revealed soon...

 

[kostag]

Re: Equititrust: valuations etc and knowledge of Directors

I have seen one letter from an Equititrust lawyer made avaialable to me by a Borrower which sets out chapter and verse that Equititrust were enforcing a mortgage knwoing that they would not recover there then 1stM loan principal, however some 18months latter, in PDS material they continue to disclose an ever increasing debt, with an allegded valutaion, way in excess of that alleged debt level.

Makes a mockery of the published PDS material.

 

[No Trust]

Corporate Goverance and Conflict of Interest ??? Whats that???

There seems to have been a serious lapse in corporate governance at Equititrust and a lot of smoke and mirrors in an attempt to mislead investors as to whom loans were made and the timing and extent of losses..

No one is stupid, ASIC is being forced to investigate them at every turn and the Australian Public have the Sydney Morning Herald, Colin Kruger and Scott Rochfort to thank for exposing Equititrust and its directors…

Equititrust and Landsolve or whatever McIvor concocts in the near future to try and save his own ass will fail due to the negligence in handling innocent retiree investor’s money. Tens of millions of dollars lost on "King Con" is a national disgrace.

How can these guys live with themselves…

For a reminder of what they have done a quick click on the link below says it all..


Investors lose in encounter with King Con



Colin Kruger
Sydney Morning Herald
June 13, 2011

http://www.smh.com.au/business/investors-lose-in-encounter-with-king-con-20110612-1fz9d.html

 

[No Trust]

Valuations

Where are the valuations recently undertaken. Why are they being withheld from investors...

 

[kostag]

Re: Equititrust: Valuations: the real issue

The real issue which Piper Aldermann will get to the bottom of is 'at what point did Equititrust management know that the valuaions that they had were 'on the nose' "

I beleive it will be shown that this was well known to them (EIF) well before they stopped money raising and PDS issuing etc.

Now, this meant that once they had good cause to believe that the fund equity was in deficit, they could no longer draw management fees or sub-ordinated fund returns etc - so as they wanted to keep drawing down obscene amounts of investor money for their own use, they masked the true status of the loan valuations and would have us all believe that it was only in March of 2011 that they suddenly realised that the valuations that they were only months earlier so confidently spruiking, were "on the nose".

Bear in mind for a year or so prior to this, those geniuses from Equititrust associate, Landsolve, were supposeldy overseeing the major and key property assets - so under their watch (and note the CEO was also Mark McIvor) while they were doing all their 'superlative' property work, they never bothered to enquire or ascertain what the properties under their control, were worth.

It does beggar belief, doesn't it?

Come on ASIC - get with the program!

 

[klua]

Re: Valuations

Where are the valuations recently undertaken. Why are they being withheld from investors...

The valuations are probably not being published to keep the sales prices of the properties high. If the valuations are published then those valuations would set the highest amount any bidder would pay and most bidders would try and pay a lot lesss.

If I was a bidder then i certainly would want to pay a lot less than a published valuation.

So I hope that by not publising INDIVIDUAL property valuations the sales prices can be higher and this means more money for us.

Publishing of a total valuation would not affect individual prices.

 

[Tysonboss1]

Re: Valuations

The valuations are probably not being published to keep the sales prices of the properties high. If the valuations are published then those valuations would set the highest amount any bidder would pay and most bidders would try and pay a lot lesss.

If I was a bidder then i certainly would want to pay a lot less than a published valuation.

So I hope that by not publising INDIVIDUAL property valuations the sales prices can be higher and this means more money for us.

Publishing of a total valuation would not affect individual prices.

real estate valuations are taken from prior and comparable sales, They are not a true valuation of the intrinsic worth of a real estate asset.

 

[klua]

Re: Valuations

real estate valuations are taken from prior and comparable sales, They are not a true valuation of the intrinsic worth of a real estate asset.

Buyers always compare prior and comparable sales when assessing a property's value. Banks and financiers also use prior and comparable sales when assesing a property's value.

If prior and comparable sales are not a true indication of a property's sale value as you say then what is the true valuation?

 

[Tysonboss1]

Re: Valuations

If prior and comparable sales are not a true indication of a property's sale value as you say then what is the true valuation?

The true intrinsic value of an asset relates to the free cashflow it will generate over it's life, for example you for a piece of real estate you might take it's annual rent income minus and costs and times it by 20 because you are happy with a 4% inflation hedged return, you use this value to determine the price.

So the Value dertermines the price,
to use price to determine value is a bit backward.

For example,

Imagine a dodgy guys company builds a block of 50 apartments, Then his brother, sister, cousin and father in law all purchase an apartment for $500,000.

There is now prior and comparable sales, so the other 46 apartments can be valued at $500,000 by a valuer and we can market them to interstate investors at this over the top price.

An investor would asses the earning power of the asset over time and produce a valuation based on this, Any value that uses price as an imput is faulty from the start.

 

[Tysonboss1]

Re: Valuations

Buyers always compare prior and comparable sales when assessing a property's value. Banks and financiers also use prior and comparable sales when assesing a property's value.

If prior and comparable sales are not a true indication of a property's sale value as you say then what is the true valuation?

It a bit like using the recent sale price of a share to try and determine it value,

 

[No Trust]

There is a reason the Valuations need to be disclosed

The reason that valuations need to be disclosed is that Landsolve and McIvor were attempting to raise 200M from innocent investors to pump back into Equititrust. So if robbing Peter to pay Paul is the name of the game innocent new investors in Landsolve need to know how big the hole is going to be... It's an exercise in transparency and corporate governance. This is one of the key reasons why ASIC had to take action in January this year when the doomed 50M capital raising was mooted. At that time the catastrophic losses were being withheld as well as the disaster loans to the notorious 'King Con".

You can’t have it both ways, if the fund was being wound down in an orderly manner then I would agree that valuations would need to be kept confidential however, McIvor wants it both ways and that just does not work.
Using the pretext of Landsolve to try and save your own ass is something the Australian media and ASIC have seen through.

The damage has been done and investors both old and new have lost faith in both Equititrust and McIvor. That cannot ever be undone; delusional exercises in denying reality and making idiotic marketing videos about Landsolve etc will not repay investors the tens of millions of dollars lost on "King Con"...


Equititrust needs to be removed, an independent manager appointed and legal proceedings commenced against Equititrust and McIvor forcing the repayment of Management Fees paid to Equititrust when it was not entitled to receive them.

 

[klua]

Re: Valuations

The true intrinsic value of an asset relates to the free cashflow it will generate over it's life, for example you for a piece of real estate you might take it's annual rent income minus and costs and times it by 20 because you are happy with a 4% inflation hedged return, you use this value to determine the price.

So if the gross rental if 5000 less 1000 costs giving 4000 net and you multiply this by 20 to get a purchase price of 80000 then you consider this is a 4% return.
You may want to relook at your maths before buying anything.

As for your other points it is important to remember that real estate prices are NOT just based on an investing decision as you seem to believe. There is "head' and "heart" in a real estate purchase. Thats why a house at Double Bay will sell for 50X the price of a house at Woop Woop, its the heart factor in those prices.
Try justifing a house at Doulbe Bay or Palm Beach on your intrinsic value figures. The same heart factor applies to cars and boats. Is a Rolls worth a dozen falcons?

The example you gave about the the inflated prices works only if you only use a small sample. A prudent purchaser taking a larger sample than 3 sales would soon reveal something was awry.

Comparable prices give the best starting point for a purchase, it shows what others have paid for the "head" and "heart". That starting point is then adjusted for all other facors.

In short for the best return on my impaired investment I would not like to see individual valuations release prior to any sales. I understand others would like the valuations released for some revenge or altuistic reasons but my prime aim is to maximise the return back to my pocket.

I will not reply to real estate posts or clutter up this thread with any more real estate posts as the main game is to get sales and our money returned.

BTW i received a letter this week from Landsolve which I found very vague.

 

[Tysonboss1]

Re: Valuations

So if the gross rental if 5000 less 1000 costs giving 4000 net and you multiply this by 20 to get a purchase price of 80000 then you consider this is a 4% return.
You may want to relook at your maths before buying anything.

LOL, yes sorry.

No, you multiple it by 25. In my sleepyness I confused it with the 20 i use for my calculations, I use 25 for fair market value, But I prefer to by closer to 20 as that gives me a larger margin of safty.

 

[Tysonboss1]

Re: Valuations

1, As for your other points it is important to remember that real estate prices are NOT just based on an investing decision as you seem to believe. There is "head' and "heart" in a real estate purchase.

2, Thats why a house at Double Bay will sell for 50X the price of a house at Woop Woop, its the heart factor in those prices.
Try justifing a house at Doulbe Bay or Palm Beach on your intrinsic value figures.

3, The example you gave about the the inflated prices works only if you only use a small sample. A prudent purchaser taking a larger sample than 3 sales would soon reveal something was awry.

4, Comparable prices give the best starting point for a purchase, it shows what others have paid for the "head" and "heart". That starting point is then adjusted for all other facors.

5, In short for the best return on my impaired investment I would not like to see individual valuations release prior to any sales. I understand others would like the valuations released for some revenge or altuistic reasons but my prime aim is to maximise the return back to my pocket.

1, Yes offcourse, but as investors we deal with facts not emotions, and people that put to much weight in the part of the valuation determined by heart, may find it disappears like mist when they reach for it.

2,It would probably generate 50x the rent too. But Ever notice that it is the top end of the property market that suffers the most in a down turn, it is not uncommon for top end properties to drop 40 or 50% in a correction. Offcourse certain features, add to the value, to a point, but even high end property still has comparisons made between how much it would cost to buy vs rent.

3, It may be that there is only a small sample available, I know of a development in my home town where townhouses are being over valued in such a way because the only comparible town house sales are in the same development and have been purchased by the developer.

4, I don't agree it is the best place to start, That assumes the market in general is never over valued, again I use the sharemarket as a reference, just because there was comparable sales of astroturf.com of $150 pershare in 2000 does not mean each share is worth $150. when it went bust any one who paid $150 pershare quickly found that out.

5, The fact that you have an investment in this company does not give me faith that your opinions on value have merit. Good luck with your investing, If you are half as smart as you think you are you will eventually come round and agree with me.

cheers

 

[klua]

Re: Valuations

If you are half as smart as you think you are you will eventually come round and agree with me.

cheers

I am disspointed with your cheap insult.
I could have rubbed your nose in your maths error but I chose to point it out politely.

Just because I pointed out your maths error to assist you and others doesnt mean i am claiming to be smarter than you and you dont need to try and regain your pride by dishing out cheap insults.

 

[Tysonboss1]

Re: Valuations

I am disspointed with your cheap insult.

It's not an insult. Just pointing out that eventually, given enough experiance (and financel scars on their back) even a person of moderate intelligence can work out that their is a difference between market price and underlying value, and that having an idea about the underlying value is more important than knowing the current market price.

The main thing you need to understand is that any calculation that uses market price as an imput to determine value is flawed.

But most people don't find this out until it's to late, Bull markets cover up all sorts of valuation mistakes, ( every turkey can fly in a tornado ), It's when the tide goes out and market prices collapse and you find out whether you valuation techniques have merit.

 

[No Trust]

NAB Loan - Bank of Scotland Loan

Will the NAB Loan be paid off in the next few weeks as promised or will there be another default... In terms of the Bank of Scotland Loan what is happening there?? As usual with these incompetents no information for the investors..


How long will the financials take this time??? Delayed as long as possible so as not to reveal the losses like last time. Normal operating procedure with EquitiRust...

Whilst Equititrust inches towards the financial graveyard investors are told nothing and the founder (who once preached he was the custodian of the public's money) goes about enjoying his luxurious lifestyle and pretending this disaster is not happening… Sickening behaviour