Equititrust?

[No Trust]

Wait There Is More To Come

Nothing has really changed, and have fees still have to be paid. Until they are paid there are plenty of options in regard to challenging them which I am sure David Whyte has made contingencies for...

What is interesting though is what's planned for McIvor from a legal point of view over the coming weeks... Life is not going to be easy for him or his stooges like mummy dearest who fronted for him with properties held in trust...

As bad as it is for investors it's going to get a whole lot worse for McIvor...

 

[Brethren]

Re: MAD MAX FUHRERBUNKER: DTZ for sale signs have gone up - MORTGAGEE SALE!

Well, administrators still in, money on its way! Reduced to $400000!!

Mr Whyte still there. McIvor no show! Deloitte suggested -voted down!



Biggest schemozzle. Couldn't organise a chook raffle!!!! More to follow - Bring on the media but don't think that is going to help. Obviously some people still love McIvor!!!!!!!!!!

The above is a start on reporting the events of the meeting, but somewhat cryptic. What, for example, does 'money on it's way' mean? Who was Chairing the meeting and on what grounds did they refuse the proxies Piper Alderman carried. Investors - whether pro or anti McIvor/Equititrust - need to know this info.

In amongst all the emotion and noise that will doubtless follow from todays' meeting, could I ask, on behalf of investors ( I am not one, merely an interested observer ) , that someone who was present please summarise what actions were resolved or voted down?

After the facts of the day have been posted then everyone can go to town venting as they see fit or feel the need. But let's at least START with a emotionless summary of the days' events so the readers of this blog who could not attend might know what occurred.

Anyone able to assist with this?

Thanks.

 

[No Trust]

Gutless

McIvor being a gutless bastard hid and was afraid to face the retribution of the investors he defrauded... Pariah of the Gold Coast...

Losers don't get any biggest than this...

 

[No Trust]

Re: COMMERCIAL DENIAL

With the current interference investors will be lucky to see 10 to 15 cents in the dollar if that... The assets are toxic and from the emerging financial information and investigations by ASIC and the Federal Police it will be shown than McIvor defrauded the funds to the tune of tens of millions of dollars by taking management fees when the he clearly new the losses were already in the hundreds of millions... Remember our fight with them last year to have update valuations... They were not updated to hide the losses which they clearly new about... This was an organisation determined to deceive the weak and elderly...

it is a well known fact - that some people when confronted with a situation where the logical consequences are simply too horrible to contemplate - they simply go into denial.

If you are an EQUITITRUST investor with $1 in the POT and McIvor and other liars suggest to you that there is some way, any way out - you grab at it..... because the alternative which David WHYTE and other honest advisers are telling is that it will probably pan out at 20cents in the $1......

faced with almost cetrian financial wipe-out for some poor investors - anything looks good!

This will drag on over years - investors die, move on, lose heart, lose the will to fight, hearts broken, throw it in....like a death in the family - you get used to it - . a small group (minority) will fight the good fight.... without support Banton will throw it in..... McIvor will slide through the net..... seen it too many times - he just has to drag this out for as long as he can ..........

I can tell you now - there wont be 20cents in the dollar left.....

 

[Mozzi]

Re: MAD MAX FUHRERBUNKER: DTZ for sale signs have gone up - MORTGAGEE SALE!

The above is a start on reporting the events of the meeting, but somewhat cryptic. What, for example, does 'money on it's way' mean? Who was Chairing the meeting and on what grounds did they refuse the proxies Piper Alderman carried. Investors - whether pro or anti McIvor/Equititrust - need to know this info.

In amongst all the emotion and noise that will doubtless follow from todays' meeting, could I ask, on behalf of investors ( I am not one, merely an interested observer ) , that someone who was present please summarise what actions were resolved or voted down?

After the facts of the day have been posted then everyone can go to town venting as they see fit or feel the need. But let's at least START with a emotionless summary of the days' events so the readers of this blog who could not attend might know what occurred.

Anyone able to assist with this?

Thanks.

Hall Chadwick chaired the meeting. About 100 there. ASIC observing. Proxies rejected from Piper Alderman as not signed by unitholders. Technicality!!!!!

Voted counted in backroom. Admin voted in as liquid
ator - out as administrator. Deloitte lost the vote! Hall Chadwick reduced their fee from $650,000 to $400,000. Undertook not to take it from Funds? Hopes to recoup from Equititrust but we will see.

Was trying to post
quick facts as was pressed for time. Not emotional - too late for that. Is this helpful.?

As things come back to mind. Will post again....................to be contd.
>

 

[word75]

IN LIQUIDATION

Well then, really the only result that could happen, Equititrust is to be liquidated and not a moment to soon. David Whyte reigns over these thieves not withstanding the controversial move by Hall Charwick in maintaining their position and fees. Disallowing Piper Aldermans vote and proxies will prove unwise as they are soon to find themselves in court defending their actions. As for Deloittes they will replace IHall Chadwick very soon.

As for the much mooted VAX bid for the RE... well it's still born and is about to be biopsied. Just another cankerous growth that has been effectively treated and ruled benign.

Now the truth is, we needed a liquidator to go after these Conivors so to bring them to book, pay back the money and hopefully Mcivor and his co conspirators will go to jail and do the time they deserve. The only problem is the liquidator is a Mcivor Plant so the likelihood of them REALLY GOING AFTER MCIVOR AND OR'S is slim unless People Power forces them to. A group of investors acting together instructing a lawyer to keep the receiver honest would be a cheap way of making these mongrel's pay. Some suitable names come to mind however with more support Amanda can do the job. Lets support her in removing Hall Chadwick for what will soon to be shown as their in appropriate behaviour and install Deliottes or in he alternative lets grab Hall Chadwick by the ankles and bash the bejesus out of Mcivor, Equititrust and their band of thieves using them. Now that would be poetic.

 

[No Trust]

Public Examination - Modern Day Public Stocks

McIvor will now be Publicially Examined on the allegations outlined in the previous report... They have no choice but to put him in the witness box and then refer him to ASIC and Prosecution...

 

[No Trust]

My dislike of the Administraitor's actions to date is clearly outlined, however since their role has now become Liquidator, they have serious obligations to meet. The fact that ASIC was observing the meeting has made that abundantly clear.

McIvor will now mean nothing to them and they MUST go after him on any financial irregularity and it seems from their report that there are many...

IN LIQUIDATION

Well then, really the only result that could happen, Equititrust is to be liquidated and not a moment to soon. David Whyte reigns over these thieves not withstanding the controversial move by Hall Charwick in maintaining their position and fees. Disallowing Piper Aldermans vote and proxies will prove unwise as they are soon to find themselves in court defending their actions. As for Deloittes they will replace IHall Chadwick very soon.

As for the much mooted VAX bid for the RE... well it's still born and is about to be biopsied. Just another cankerous growth that has been effectively treated and ruled benign.

Now the truth is, we needed a liquidator to go after these Conivors so to bring them to book, pay back the money and hopefully Mcivor and his co conspirators will go to jail and do the time they deserve. The only problem is the liquidator is a Mcivor Plant so the likelihood of them REALLY GOING AFTER MCIVOR AND OR'S is slim unless People Power forces them to. A group of investors acting together instructing a lawyer to keep the receiver honest would be a cheap way of making these mongrel's pay. Some suitable names come to mind however with more support Amanda can do the job. Lets support her in removing Hall Chadwick for what will soon to be shown as their in appropriate behaviour and install Deliottes or in he alternative lets grab Hall Chadwick by the ankles and bash the bejesus out of Mcivor, Equititrust and their band of thieves using them. Now that would be poetic.

 

[ASICK]

Good morning "No Trurst" - I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one too, but the failure of members to sign proxies is hardly a mere technicality.

I'm only guessing, but I think Piper Alderman simply doesn't have much standing with respect to the goings-on in yoru fund - and, as far as I understand it, it doesn't look good that the law firm (or its' associate) attempts to attend with unsigned proxies.

A couple of days ago, I posted that I had a gut-feeling that your fund was worth $0.15 - I'd guess that many readers thought that was nonsense - but now, both you and "Kostag" seem to be of the impression there's no much left in your fund, and figures around $0.15 are now being mooted by both of you.

Costs will kill your fund - same as the PFMF - PFMF unit price is now $0.28 ($0.22 plus $0.06 repaid) - The PFMF's already lost 42% ($177m) since Trilogy/Balmain Trilogy took over the fund. Receivers / contractors / real estate agents / lawyers / auditors / CBA / valuers / managers etc are all making money, but we're losing hand over fist.

Trilogy took the fund at $0.48, and now with $0.22 remaining, I see no hope of that $0.22 actually coming on punters' hands.

I don't know if you realise it, but you're all becoming spectators cheering and jeering events which are, in fact, costing you all a heap of what's left of your investment.

No one is in this game at no cost - every event costs - the mails outs, the appointment of the receiver.

I've formed the view that a badly damaged fund is no more lucky than a defenceless badly wounded animal in the wild - both will be all or partly eaten up by opportunists.

I've also formed the view that ASIC is not concerned about fairness, but rather about process. Members should remember that they can vote for very unfair arrangments: ASIC regards such decisions as members' respective 'prudential choices".

We'll also agree to disagree, but the only ones out there who really concern themselves about investors is investors themselves - and if they, in the collective, do nothing, then they will surely lose.

 

[No Trust]

Public Examination - Modern Day Public Stocks

Once thing that both McIvor and Tucker cannot now avoid is PUBLIC EXAMINATION by the "Administraitor" now "Liquidator"...

Refer to Page 38 Para 12 of the Report below which outlines who will now be appearing in the Witness Box...

In seems that the liquidator (as outlined in the report) will have no choice but to refer the breaches of the Corporations Law to ASIC.

Now this will be poetic justice as McIvor never expected this. He was deluded enough to believe the change in the RE would occur and that he would be off the hook. He clearly does not understand the commercial realities or is just plain dumb. This was exemplified by David Whyte when McIvor appointed an Adminsitraitor to Wirrina Cove. David Whyte outlines McIvor's lack of understanding of the securities and corporate structure of the resort, which effectively made the appointment irrelevant and David Whyte took full control again...

I do not think McIvor is as smart as "he thinks he is" as this disaster shows he really is one dumb bastard...

http://www.equititrust.com.au/Pdfs/...eports - 20120412 - Circular to Creditors.pdf

 

[No Trust]

ASICK please read the thread properly, I did not say that... Post 2304 regarding the Technicality was not posted by me

Good morning "No Trurst" - I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one too, but the failure of members to sign proxies is hardly a mere technicality.

I'm only guessing, but I think Piper Alderman simply doesn't have much standing with respect to the goings-on in yoru fund - and, as far as I understand it, it doesn't look good that the law firm (or its' associate) attempts to attend with unsigned proxies.

A couple of days ago, I posted that I had a gut-feeling that your fund was worth $0.15 - I'd guess that many readers thought that was nonsense - but now, both you and "Kostag" seem to be of the impression there's no much left in your fund, and figures around $0.15 are now being mooted by both of you.

Costs will kill your fund - same as the PFMF - PFMF unit price is now $0.28 ($0.22 plus $0.06 repaid) - The PFMF's already lost 42% ($177m) since Trilogy/Balmain Trilogy took over the fund. Receivers / contractors / real estate agents / lawyers / auditors / CBA / valuers / managers etc are all making money, but we're losing hand over fist.

Trilogy took the fund at $0.48, and now with $0.22 remaining, I see no hope of that $0.22 actually coming on punters' hands.

I don't know if you realise it, but you're all becoming spectators cheering and jeering events which are, in fact, costing you all a heap of what's left of your investment.

No one is in this game at no cost - every event costs - the mails outs, the appointment of the receiver.

I've formed the view that a badly damaged fund is no more lucky than a defenceless badly wounded animal in the wild - both will be all or partly eaten up by opportunists.

 

[ASICK]

ASICK please read the thread properly, I did not say that... Post 2304 regarding the Technicality was not posted by me

Yes, you didn't say that ... sorry, I guess I forgot there were others on the forum. The reference to the technicality should be directed to Mozzi's posting.

 

[Brethren]

I'll second many of ASICK's observations:

- un-signed proxies? That's a bad and basic slip-up; a literal case of not dotting the "i's" and not crossing the "t's".
- the predators will consume the carcass. Take a look at the long list ASICK put together a few post above of those who now get to feed off the remains of any Fund that hits the ropes ( whether it be Balmain Trilogy or the Equititrust Fund ). His 'wounded animal in the jungle' analogy is spot-on. It's basically now a matter of which predators will feed from the carcass. To move the analogy to African savannah - a cheetah may run down a gazelle and kill it, only to be chased off by hyenas or baboons who, in turn are chased off by lions [ and a predatory replacement Responsible Entity could be seen as a leopard who, if they get hold of the carcass, will stash it up a tree to eat at their leisure ].

The predators will now feed; the Investors are very much relegated to passive observers as their remaining capital is consumed. The only way to have avoided this was to have a large group of investors organised early to go hard with the legals. But this is almost impossible to achieve and almost never happens in commercial situations. Fear, hope that all will somehow come good, ignorance of the twists and turns of corporate law - all these factors get in the way for ordinary mums and dads.

- ASICK is also correct in their view of ASIC. Their legal mandate is not to ensure people do not lose investment money. It is to ensure that it's not lost by illegal means. ASIC cannot act just because something is immoral, only when they can argue to a Court that it is illegal. Hence the need for dotting all 'i's' and crossing all 't's' - sloppiness in any form is something you investors cannot afford.

Investors may get some say over who consumes their remaining capital [ ie: some of you may wish to do what you can to ensure that those you hold directly responsible do not benefit, which will simply mean that many lawyers, administrators, liquidators etc will make good money burying what should have been a healthy pool of investor capital ]. But don't expect much more.

Sorry to sound melodramatic but check back in 12 months and see if I am wrong. I hope to be. I do not expect to be.

I do expect that Hall Chadwick as Liquidators may be constrained to go after the Equititrust Directors, based on what I have read in their earlier Administrators report. If even the most colourful of of the accusations in these threads of a cozy relationship between Hall Chadwick and Equititrust were true it may well be a case of 'their neck on the chopping block or ours' because a lot of what is in their report is, in legal terms, at least as 'colourful' as anything I've seen posted on this forum. And that is saying something !

 

[Olman]

Piper Alderman Proxies.

Hall Chadwick chaired the meeting. About 100 there. ASIC observing. Proxies rejected from Piper Alderman as not signed by unitholders. Technicality!!!!!
>

Piper Alderman sent out proxy forms by email last Tuesday for completion and return. Maybe the proxies were disallowed on a technicality, rather than not being signed?

 

[word75]

I'm sure ASIC is all over this. The criminality and evidence of same will have been collected during the raid on Equititrust now it's complicity and duplicity they will be researching and we will all be there with our congratulatory hats on when these thieves are bought to justice.

Hall Chadwick will be under the gun here to, if simple people like us can join the dots then make no mistake, the smartest team of investigators in their field at ASIC will well and truly on their scent. There is no way a bunch of shysters who have stolen nearly $100mil for personal gain and cost hard working ordinary everyday people almost $250mil of their wealth, capital and security will get away with it.
Remember this, ASIC put the very capable receivers .... David Whyte into the funds and they did that at the first sign of trouble. If that hadn't then just imagine the s..t storm this would be. The funds only have the remaining pool of funds it has now because protective measures were initiated. This fund would be in a far worse predicament if not for BDO and David Whyte. Just imagine Evil Conivor and his mercinaries still managing these funds.

It would appear that the remaining assets to be sold will be disposed of by years end. There is absolutely no evidence that BDO has fire saled anything, and from the advices they are providing it would also appear that the secured lenders are about to be discharged. That means unit holders are close to receiving distributions. The asset pool appears to be highly problematic, property that is poorly located, values grossly inflated and certainly not of the same AAA quality of the Premium Properties Mcivor chose to invest in for himself and interests. Which is just as well.

Certain information that is publicly available would indicate that once the funds assets are sold a distribution if approx 35-44 cents is achievable.
Keep in mind that the liquidators are encumbered to recover all monies from wherever they have been concealed or from whatever entity is liable.

Mcivors private stash of property worth up to $50mil is fair game after the secured lenders recover any loans. Then their is at least $36mil of directors insurance and the possible claim against KPMG though one wonders if an insolvency practioner will actually go after another one. For that I think a class action expert is the weapon of choice. Then there is the personal liability of the directors who will be sued in the personal capacity.

It's possible to recover the full $1.00 unit value for all investors and make those accountable pay for it.

First things first, the three dumb me are now directors of a company in liquidation they must provide their financials and they should be injuncted from dealing in their private capacity on all personal assets. Given the size of the theft the millions missing they should be compelled to submit their passports to the authorities. Let's face facts...
$100mil has got to be hiding somewhere

 

[Todays]

I attended yesterdays meeting.
Hall Chadwick’s presentation and control of the meeting was disappointing.

I was very disappointed that no attendees offered to join the Liquidation Committee which would have given this forum inside information. (I can’t)

I was very confused as Deloitte’s represented the Liquidation and receivers of MM Capital & M M Holdings Ex Mark McIvor companies “Related Entities” and ?NAB?

As per Hall Chadwicks report page 25 item 10.2.2 Equititrust owes these identities $10,766,519 & $205,033 Total 10,766,519 (Unsecured Creditors)

Also refer to page 29 section 10.4 Related Entities.

I am confident BDO David & Hall Chadwick will be reluctant to pay these amounts until the debt is proven.

Also considering page 33 where MM Holding loan were being paid 20% could these loans be subject to litigation?

My question is do Deloitte’s have a conflict of interest if appointed liquidator as the payment of this dept assists there client (??NAB??) and Mark McIvor’s debt?

Did Piper Alderman comment on Deloitte’s appointment and trying to recoup $10.97 Mil from the fund?

Would ASIC be happy with this?

Hall Chadwick have guaranteed not to charge the funds for Liquidation. (A Win)

I welcome you comments.

 

[word75]

I attended yesterdays meeting.
Hall Chadwick’s presentation and control of the meeting was disappointing.

I was very disappointed that no attendees offered to join the Liquidation Committee which would have given this forum inside information. (I can’t)

I was very confused as Deloitte’s represented the Liquidation and receivers of MM Capital & M M Holdings Ex Mark McIvor companies “Related Entities” and ?NAB?

As per Hall Chadwicks report page 25 item 10.2.2 Equititrust owes these identities $10,766,519 & $205,033 Total 10,766,519 (Unsecured Creditors)
I
Also refer to page 29 section 10.4 Related Entities.

I am confident BDO David & Hall Chadwick will be reluctant to pay these amounts until the debt is proven.

Also considering page 33 where MM Holding loan were being paid 20% could these loans be subject to litigation?

My question is do Deloitte’s have a conflict of interest if appointed liquidator as the payment of this dept assists there client (??NAB??) and Mark McIvor’s debt?

Did Piper Alderman comment on Deloitte’s appointment and trying to recoup $10.97 Mil from the fund?

Would ASIC be happy with this?

Hall Chadwick have guaranteed not to charge the funds for Liquidation. (A Win)

I welcome you comments.

My concern is that as liquidators Hall Chadwick can now change the RE AND MOVE US TO VAX whether we like it or not if they (make) believe its in the funds and unit holders best interest. That is a game changer and that's been Conivors plan all along. We want an undertaking from Hall Chadwick that they won't do that. I BET THEY WON'T GIVE THAT

 

[No Trust]

There is no way the liquidator can change the RE to VAX, it will never happen... They have even acknowledged that the court, ASIC and David Whyte would need to approve that... So its never going to happen, we can forget about that now, its dead and McIvor failed...

My concern is that as liquidators Hall Chadwick can now change the RE AND MOVE US TO VAX whether we like it or not if they (make) believe its in the funds and unit holders best interest. That is a game changer and that's been Conivors plan all along. We want an undertaking from Hall Chadwick that they won't do that. I BET THEY WON'T GIVE THAT

 

[Todays]

My concern is that as liquidators Hall Chadwick can now change the RE AND MOVE US TO VAX whether we like it or not if they (make) believe its in the funds and unit holders best interest. That is a game changer and that's been Conivors plan all along. We want an undertaking from Hall Chadwick that they won't do that. I BET THEY WON'T GIVE THAT

Word 75,
Thank you for your post.

Hall Chadwick as confirmed at the meeting and in writing (Bottom of page 44) that they would not recommend the changing of the RE.
Also on page 40 section 14 it would require a vote of "majority of unit holders" to change the RE. (With the tone of the meeting this would not happen.)

It was clear at the last meeting that a vote for Hall Chadwick was a vote for a change in the RE and triggering the subordinated units that’s wrong.

ASIC are fully aware of the Subordinated unit triggers. ASIC and the court would have to approve any RE change. There is no way ASIC would make a decision which would/could be detrimental to unit holders and the unit price.

I feel for Hall Chadwick. The Equititrust directors had to appoint an administrator as Equititrust was insolvent and they chose Hall Chadwick. Because of the understandable negative feeling to Mark McIvor I can understand a perception that Hall Chadwick is not independent. (There presentation did not build confidence)
ASIC is watching everybody to insure independence.

David Hickie VAX wound up Estate Mortgage and got the final unit price from $0.04 to $1.10. Considering this track record Mark McIvor suggested I think in good faith (Many Don’t) Hall Chadwick should investigate David Hickie VAX and they did.
Maybe an error of judgement we all make them. But track record $0.04 to $1.10.

I don’t fully understand the complexities of it but we (Investors) are creditors not unit holders. Hall Chadwick are in an unprecedented position hence the comment that they would have to “seek direction from the court”.

The BDO appointment is because the EIF (Income fund) is the only ASIC regulated fund because Equititrust could not get director insurance David Tucker during a court hearing and facilitated the appointment of BDO.

Under the Norman structure Equititrust would appoint an administrator then liquidation the liquidator would wind up all the funds. That’s why it’s unprecedented.

For obvious reasons one must consider there could be plan to ovoid litigation and due to David Hickie record destroying his proposal.

As mentioned in the meeting Liquidation triggers Litigation I believe there are many parties which should be held accountable and pay with $ to investors.

 

[ASICK]

...

ASIC are fully aware of the Subordinated unit triggers. ASIC and the court would have to approve any RE change. There is no way ASIC would make a decision which would/could be detrimental to unit holders and the unit price.

...

I don’t fully understand the complexities of it but we (Investors) are creditors not unit holders. Hall Chadwick are in an unprecedented position hence the comment that they would have to “seek direction from the court”.


Under the Norman structure Equititrust would appoint an administrator then liquidation the liquidator would wind up all the funds. That’s why it’s unprecedented.

...

If anyone thinks ASIC wouldn't allow a decision that would be detrimental to unitholders should do some research on the Premium Income Fund (PIF) and a recent rights issue.

Even though a court ruled that a particulr rights issue was not in investors' best interests, it permitted the rights issue to stand. ASIC ignored members' complaints in regard to the issue.

I confess I'm perplexed about unitholders are creditors of Equititrust limited. While unitholders are creditors of the EIF, how does that latch onto Equititrust Limited?

I note that this issue was one of many issues which the (then) administrator of Equititrust Limited based an court application for an extension of time. ("Report to Creditors", Page 7, Paragraph 3. "Introduction") http://equititrust.com.au/Pdfs/Admi...eports - 20120412 - Circular to Creditors.pdf

However, I couldn't find the administrator's final position on the issue in the above referenced report. I'm inclinded to think that its' not possible for unitholders to creditors of Equititrust Limited, even if Equititrust Limited actually owed the fund money.