Education

SirRumpole said:

I just wonder if using AI in some circumstances is just another way of doing "research", like looking up a textbook.

If AI can solve a problem, why not use it? The borderline between research and cheating looks fairly slim to me.

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Yes was thinking the same however I know when the daughter was doing her masters high level critical thinking was required for assignments with marking being ruthless, I was amazed how they beat the students up with exams and assignments.

Out of 130 plus starting out at at the uni course only 18 actually graduated with a masters 6 years later.

SirRumpole said:

The borderline between research and cheating looks fairly slim to me.

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That's the problem, as AI gets better and better, the ability of the student becomes secondary.

IFocus said:

Yes was thinking the same however I know when the daughter was doing her masters high level critical thinking was required for assignments with marking being ruthless, I was amazed how they beat the students up with exams and assignments.

Out of 130 plus starting out at at the uni course only 18 actually graduated with a masters 6 years later.

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I'm glad they are keeping the standards up, sometimes I get the impression that the opposite is the case.

IFocus said:

Yes was thinking the same however I know when the daughter was doing her masters high level critical thinking was required for assignments with marking being ruthless, I was amazed how they beat the students up with exams and assignments.

Out of 130 plus starting out at at the uni course only 18 actually graduated with a masters 6 years later.

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Well one would assume that the 18 that graduated deserved to graduate and had the ability to graduate, the problem arises when they are applying for positions against 1,200 with overseas qualifications, with equal recognition IMO.

SirRumpole said:

I'm glad they are keeping the standards up, sometimes I get the impression that the opposite is the case.

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That was 6 years ago but have since heard from insiders battles between uni professors / lectures and administrators concerning standards for doctors administrators giving 3rd chances to failed students

sptrawler said:

Well one would assume that the 18 that graduated deserved to graduate and had the ability to graduate, the problem arises when they are applying for positions against 1,200 with overseas qualifications, with equal recognition IMO.

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Nah all went straight into careers such are the local standards

IFocus said:

Nah all went straight into careers such are the local standards

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On the subject of local standards, they are going to check out the sausage machine, for quality.

sptrawler said:

On the subject of local standards, they are going to check out the sausage machine, for quality.

‘Distinction the new credit’: Grade inflation puts uni integrity at risk

An investigation into grade inflation by Sydney University found a 234 per cent increase in the number of high distinctions awarded over a decade.

www.smh.com.au

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Unfortunately the article is paywalled but the subject has been over tv and radio(ABC) today.

With foreign students paying big money for degrees, the uni's don't want to give up the gravy train do they?

I don't know if this headline is accurate, but if it is, it's pretty impressive numbers.

Drowning in debt: Students hung out to dry by HECS rules​

Almost three million graduates owe the government $78bn in student loan debt – that’s an average of $26,500 each. It’s a burden that comes into sharp focus years down the line as many first home buyers are finding out.

Australia "too reliant" on foreigh students, say universities.

SirRumpole said:

Australia "too reliant" on foreigh students, say universities.

How dependent on international students have our universities become?

Australia's top eight universities say they are "reliant" on international student fees, warning the federal government's proposed caps on foreign enrolments could damage the sector.

www.abc.net.au

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Long been the case I think.

sptrawler said:

Re introducing the times table, in primary school, would be a great start IMO.
Way too much time spent on social engineering ...

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Dona Ferentes said:

View attachment 178375

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Nine nein ninety nine.

SirRumpole said:

Nine nein ninety nine.

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A journalists take on career paths and our value adding education system.
Reality catching up with yet another sector.

IMO our education system has probably hit the point, where there will be serious consideration given to using AI as teachers, in the very near future.
It is a bit like journalism, once it lacks credibility and is perceived to have a sub standard output.
It is only a matter of time, before it loses value and an alternative is sought.


A West Australian school has been caught cheating at NAPLAN, with teachers handing out a cheat sheet on the day when students were meant to have only a bit of blank paper for working out.

The 2024 results were released late on Tuesday night, with a group of 19 year 3 students’ results withheld due to “inappropriate assistance being made available” during the test – the only substantiated report of cheating made across the country.

A spokesman for the School Curriculum and Standards Authority said it involved a planning sheet, which helps students prepare before NAPLAN testing, being handed out on the day of the test, when students were only permitted to have a blank piece of paper for working out.
“The school has been counselled and is undertaking measures to improve procedures for future years. The compromised data has been withheld,” he said.

It was overall a rather dismal showing for WA’s year 3s.
Almost half of year 3s were not proficient in grammar or punctuation, and in reading, more recorded results in the lowest band – “needs additional support” – than any other mainland state.
In total, 47.6 per cent of students fell into the lowest two bands, and the results weren’t much better in spelling, with 40 per cent falling into the lower categories.

By year 9 the opposite results were recorded, however, with WA having the highest number of students of all states and territories falling into the top two bands across all subject areas except writing; even above the ACT, known for its high scores.

Australian Curriculum, Assessment and Reporting Authority chief executive Stephen Gniel said the results showed strong performances from students in literacy and numeracy across the board.
In WA, 33.15 per cent of all students were in the “needs additional support” or “developing” categories, compared to 32.8 per cent nationally.
Girls outperformed boys in reading, writing, spelling, and grammar and punctuation in all grades, while boys outperformed girls in numeracy in all grades.

Children from families whose parents completed a bachelor’s degree also scored much higher than those whose parents finished their formal education in year 11 – more than 75 per cent did not meet proficiency standards in the latter group.
But the national curriculum body warned not to read too much into the data just yet, given it is only the second year since changes to the way NAPLAN is scored.
Gniel said it would only be into next year and the year after that real trends emerged.

sptrawler said:

Almost half of year 3s were not proficient in grammar or punctuation, and in reading, more recorded results in the lowest band – “needs additional support” – than any other mainland state.
In total, 47.6 per cent of students fell into the lowest two bands, and the results weren’t much better in spelling, with 40 per cent falling into the lower categories.

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But I'm sure that they know about aboriginal culture, climate change and LGBTxyz pronouns.

Seriously , the overall results are pathetic, third world country stuff.

Some of the teacher union dead wood needs to be culled out, and funding increased.

SirRumpole said:

But I'm sure that they know about aboriginal culture, climate change and LGBTxyz pronouns.

Seriously , the overall results are pathetic, third world country stuff.

Some of the teacher union dead wood needs to be culled out, and funding increased.

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Yes it really is getting out of control, I personally think now that there would be more benefit in teaching kids maths on a tablet, than using teachers.
I'm not convinced the majority of teachers can teach maths, or know maths themselves to a standard that enables them to teach the subject, going on the two grandkids that live with us.

From the article:
The University of Sydney recorded its worst result since 2018, falling one place to 61st in the world. The University of Technology Sydney dropped six spots to equal 154th, while the Australian National University also fell six places to equal 73rd.
The nation’s universities recorded significant declines in both teaching and research reputations across the board.

In a bleak outlook for Australia’s tertiary education sector, seven of the 17 downgraded institutions received their worst rankings since 2016. Several Australian universities dropped in the rankings last year due to factors including poor student-to-staff ratios, which are among the worst globally.
Only four Australian universities improved their rankings in this year’s index: UNSW moved from 84th to 83rd and Macquarie University went from 180th to 178th, respectively. Deakin University in Melbourne and Victoria’s Federation University Australia also improved.

Oxford is ranked as the best university in the world, while Australia’s top-ranked University of Melbourne was downgraded by two places to 39th.

sptrawler said:

‘Serious warning signs’: Sydney universities slide in global rankings

The nation’s universities suffered alarming falls on a prestigious global ratings index, with seven assigned their worst positions since 2016.

www.smh.com.au

From the article:
The University of Sydney recorded its worst result since 2018, falling one place to 61st in the world. The University of Technology Sydney dropped six spots to equal 154th, while the Australian National University also fell six places to equal 73rd.
The nation’s universities recorded significant declines in both teaching and research reputations across the board.

In a bleak outlook for Australia’s tertiary education sector, seven of the 17 downgraded institutions received their worst rankings since 2016. Several Australian universities dropped in the rankings last year due to factors including poor student-to-staff ratios, which are among the worst globally.
Only four Australian universities improved their rankings in this year’s index: UNSW moved from 84th to 83rd and Macquarie University went from 180th to 178th, respectively. Deakin University in Melbourne and Victoria’s Federation University Australia also improved.

Oxford is ranked as the best university in the world, while Australia’s top-ranked University of Melbourne was downgraded by two places to 39th.

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I just wonder how many fee paying foreign students pass their courses because they pay money not because they are any good.

That would have to induce universities to reduce standards and the nation suffers as a result having less qualified people.

SirRumpole said:

I just wonder how many fee paying foreign students pass their courses because they pay money not because they are any good.

That would have to induce universities to reduce standards and the nation suffers as a result having less qualified people.

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They will still have the same qualification, its just that they are less likely to be able to do a job that requires specific learned skills.
According to one of sons, In the IT industry now, potential employers are looking for a masters degree as the undergraduate batchelors degree is considered a bit blase.
Mick