Does Reincarnation Exist? :)

Mostafa · 2 July 2006

wayneL said:
I have no idea whether reincarnation exists, but I have a couple of comments.

I have some comments too

I believe that human life is a short journey and this word is a lab for people to know and find themselves and then know God.

Rafa · 2 July 2006

WayneL said:
Atheism IS a dogma. Atheists are proselytes. (I'm refering particularly to atheists and not agnostics) Instead of fear and guilt, they use ridicule and satire and it is equally unpalatable. It is just more socially acceptable in our society.

I have stopped posting for this very same reason... because I see a deliberate attempt by the part of the atheist on this forum to invite comment on issues, and then when replies are gained based on each persons individual beliefs, they are ridiculed just becuase its based on religious beliefs!!!

I mean, what is the point of all this... There is a deliberate attempt by atheists to spread their 'faith' whilst pretending to take the moral high ground and say... 'Hey, we don't go about spreading our beliefs on others like the other religions...'

The fact is, this has been happening quite clearly on this forum and on the media for many years, all in the name of logic and satire and to get cheap laughs....

I did try, in a thread while back to have a discussion based on reason… that thread died rather quickly….

Thanks Wayne, for exposing, in such clear words, the HYPOCRISY at work by some people on these message boards.

R.

Bobby · 2 July 2006

Rafa said:
I have stopped posting for this very same reason... because I see a deliberate attempt by the part of the atheist on this forum to invite comment on issues, and then when replies are gained based on each persons individual beliefs, they are ridiculed just becuase its based on religious beliefs!!!

I mean, what is the point of all this... There is a deliberate attempt by atheists to spread their 'faith' whilst pretending to take the moral high ground and say... 'Hey, we don't go about spreading our beliefs on others like the other religions...'

The fact is, this has been happening quite clearly on this forum and on the media for many years, all in the name of logic and satire and to get cheap laughs....

I did try, in a thread while back to have a discussion based on reason… that thread died rather quickly….

Thanks Wayne, for exposing, in such clear words, the HYPOCRISY at work by some people on these message boards.

R.

Hullo Rafa'
When did you become a proselyte, was it from your early childhood ?
Was it a manifestation of your own discovery ? or was it an introduction from others ?

Bob.

shasta · 3 July 2006

kennas said:
Wayne,

Isn't the onus of proof of the person saying something does exist? Otherwise we can just make up any old crap and say , 'well, prove it doesn't'.

I was taken up in a flying saucer last night.

If someone is not trying to change other peoples' views/beliefs then there is no onus of proof on that someone regarding religious beliefs as everyone is entitled to believe whatever they like and they are then fully entitled to use those beliefs to support any comments.

Anyone can then personally disregard those supporting beliefs if they so choose but if they then want to convince the original person their views are BS then the onus is on them to prove to the original how their views are BS.

professor_frink · 3 July 2006

wayneL said:
I have no idea whether reincarnation exists, but I have a couple of comments.

1/ No-one can know that God, Allah, Buddah, Yaweh, Jehova, Infinite Intellegence, Cosmic Intellegence, whatever you want to call it, definately does NOT exist.

You can only believe he/she/it does not exist.

Therefore Atheism is a faith, just like Christianity, Islam, Wicca, Taoism, whetever.

2/ Christians (and others) are often criticized for their proselytising activities, yet the atheists are probably the most fervent proselytes there are. That is certainly obvious here on ASF.

3/ Christians (and others) tend to base their argument around the infallibility of the Bible.

Atheists tend to centre their arguement around inconsistencies in the Bible.

Could a God (or whatever) exist exclusive of what is said in the Bible? Of course! The Bible is irrelevent.

4/ People who believe in God (or whatever) tend to assign human qualities to their selected deity... jealousy, anger, revenge, need to be worshipped, need to be obeyed etc.

What if God (or whatever) wasn't any of the above. What if what you believe, doesn't matter?

What if we are ALL wrong? What if the truth nothing like any of us ever imagined?

What I'm trying to say here, is that we all get carried away trying to support, and substantiate our own beliefs. We try to manipulate others into our own belief system in order to support our own belief system.

I say it doesn't matter a damn. Each is on their own journey for whatever reason they're on it. Be happy and content with your journey, but please don't ridicule or proselytise. It's really quite peurile.

The only thing I say is believe what you want to believe, but have an open mind. I see a lot of narrow views defended with fuzzy thinking and lunatic logic at times.

Cheers and be cool.

well said wayne. I couldn't have said it half as well as that!!

Sean K · 3 July 2006

Shasta, (and Wayne) the people said to be 'atheists' on this forum are not basing their arguments on faith, belief, mysticism, higher powers, extraterrestrials, or dogma as you say.

We (I assume I am one of your athiests) are trying to use logic and reason to put our case forward. Not just blind faith and trust in a set of rules and an understanding of the universe developed in the ancient world when humans thought the world was flat, the stone wheel was technlogy, and the stars were Gods.

We are arguing a case with the facts available and not deferring to irrationality when there are no proofs.

Those that do not search for the truth and have their feet cemented in first millenium fears of the supernatural, are holding the human race back from progressing and creating a better world for all.

Happy · 3 July 2006

On the other hand if reincarnation exists, our possible death row buggers would come back sooner.

Maybe there is merit in delaying their reappearance, as there is no guarantee they would come back any better?

shasta · 3 July 2006

kennas said:
............We (I assume I am one of your athiests) are trying to use logic and reason to put our case forward. Not just blind faith and trust in a set of rules and an understanding of the universe developed in the ancient world when humans thought the world was flat, the stone wheel was technlogy, and the stars were Gods.

We are arguing a case with the facts available and not deferring to irrationality when there are no proofs..........

I agree in general with Wayne and I disagree with kennas because those who do not believe in a god, as they are entitled to if they choose, are also simply basing their belief in a 'blind faith' that no god exists and so what wayne said: "You can only believe he/she/it does not exist." is true because no-one can physically prove no god exists just as those that do believe cannot physically prove that a god exists....so it just boils down to what you choose to believe based on your personal choices and experiences

Sean K · 3 July 2006

Shasta, I actually agree with you, but to me the common idea of God is absolutely absurd. So, yes, it's just my opinion, because I have not been touched by God as you perhaps have. I have looked for God, and been willing to accept Him if he proved Himself to me in some way. I have studied the history of God in some detail and have a bookcase dedicated to religion. Through my studies I have discovered that the idea of God is clearly a creation of humankind, not the other way around. All belief and faith developed as a means for the primitives to understand the mysteries of the world and later, for the power elite to control society. There is more to it, but that's the basics.

But again, of course, just my opinion.

shasta · 3 July 2006

kennas said:
Shasta, I actually agree with you, but to me the common idea of God is absolutely absurd. So, yes, it's just my opinion, because I have not been touched by God as you perhaps have. I have looked for God, and been willing to accept Him if he proved Himself to me in some way..........

I think you could be going about it the wrong way if you expect God to prove Himself to you, or anyone for that matter.

Somewhere in the gospels (I don't know the references off the top of my head) Jesus Christ praises those he is talking to at the time for believing in Him after seeing the work and miracles he had performed whilst many others chose not to and then goes on to say something like blessed are those who have not seen but still believe.

Here imo he is clearly referring to the generations of people after He ascends back to heaven and it is a request from Him to us to believe in Him through faith as opposed to concrete physical proof after He is gone physically from this world.

Many see the events, miracles etc as described by eye witnesses (the apostles) as being concrete proof of God's existence. But many will also choose to believe the gospels are a load of rubbish, conspiracy, halucinations etc etc.

So if someone accepts the gospels are fact then it is much easier for them to find and accept God, as you put it, but if they don't accept the gospels as fact for whatever reason they choose then it is very easy for them to dismiss and ridicule them while at the same time not being able to prove they are fiction in anyway........so it just boils down to what everyone choose to believe and have faith in.

Try to remember that faith = believing something that cannot be physically proved and just because it cannot be physically proved does not mean it isn't true....it just gives everyone the option to either believe or not believe it....nothing more, nothing less

xice · 3 July 2006

nope, everything is in your head. yep no heaven either unfortunately. Brains only electronic impules, thats it.

nelly · 3 July 2006

....... 65-70 years...die........
what a depressing thought..... what would be the point......obeying the law......learning right from wrong......finding a purpose...........quote "all that is not eternal is eternally useless" unquote.............. just what would be the point if YOU were right?.......[tilt the perspective away from always being about 'Me'...'I'....'My'................it is not!]

quote C.S.Lewis

Sean K · 3 July 2006

The point is to make the 65-70 years the best possible years they can be. If you think life is going to be better after, in 'heaven', then you won't live this life to it's fullest and you'll waste it. LIVE THIS LIFE, NOW!! THERE IS NO OTHER.

wayneL · 3 July 2006

kennas said:
Shasta, I actually agree with you, but to me the common idea of God is absolutely absurd. So, yes, it's just my opinion, because I have not been touched by God as you perhaps have. I have looked for God, and been willing to accept Him if he proved Himself to me in some way. I have studied the history of God in some detail and have a bookcase dedicated to religion. Through my studies I have discovered that the idea of God is clearly a creation of humankind, not the other way around. All belief and faith developed as a means for the primitives to understand the mysteries of the world and later, for the power elite to control society. There is more to it, but that's the basics.

But again, of course, just my opinion.

Kennas,

I find a lot to agree with in your post.

Clearly, mans creation of God is absurd, as I have strongly intimated before. And herein lies the great problem. The God of the bible and other texts, is not a credible God in view of scientific knowledge, or even with logical non-scientific examination.

However the scientific community's version of creation/evolution is equally incredible, and contains many absurdities. Likewise, this version of events should be regarded with healthy scepticism. Therefore, belief in accidental evolution requires faith as well.

I humbly submit that whatever faith is selected doesn't matter. There is happiness in trying to do good (this is demonstrable). So whether at death we turn to dust, or live on as some sort of spirit, the human being should just try to do good and respect life.

If there is a God, I'm sure he/she/it would be satisfied with that, even if by circumstance, that person didn't believe.

I would.

Cheers

wayneL · 3 July 2006

kennas said:
THERE IS NO OTHER.

PROSELYTATION

Julia · 3 July 2006

wayneL said:
Kennas,

I find a lot to agree with in your post.

Clearly, mans creation of God is absurd, as I have strongly intimated before. And herein lies the great problem. The God of the bible and other texts, is not a credible God in view of scientific knowledge, or even with logical non-scientific examination.

However the scientific community's version of creation/evolution is equally incredible, and contains many absurdities. Likewise, this version of events should be regarded with healthy scepticism. Therefore, belief in accidental evolution requires faith as well.

I humbly submit that whatever faith is selected doesn't matter. There is happiness in trying to do good (this is demonstrable). So whether at death we turn to dust, or live on as some sort of spirit, the human being should just try to do good and respect life.

If there is a God, I'm sure he/she/it would be satisfied with that, even if by circumstance, that person didn't believe.

I would.

Cheers

Wayne

I wish I'd said that. Thank you. Sums up my feelings perfectly.

Julia

Sean K · 3 July 2006

Yes, I'll take that Wayne.

My way of living the most fulfilling life I possible can, and not waste time, is to think that this is the only life I have. I have one chance at making my, and those lives around me, the best they can be.

You're right, I'm preaching.

I still think that organised religion causes more damage to society than having a humanistic philosophic perspective on life!

nelly · 3 July 2006

shasta said:
hmmmmmm...does reincarnation exist?

Contrary to what popular books, movies and seminars will tell you, you won't discover your lifes meaning by looking within yourself. [But you've probably tried that already.] You didn't create yourself, so there is no way you can know what you were created for!
If I handed you an invention you had never seen before, you wouldn't know it's purpose and the invention itself couldn't tell you either.
Only the inventor or the owners manual could tell you it's purpose.......
For 1000's of years, brilliant philosophers have discussed and speculated about the meaning of life. Philosophy is an important subject and has it's uses, but when it comes to determining the purpose of life, even the wisest philosophers are just guessing.
The search for the purpose of life has puzzled people for 1000's of years. Thats because they typically begin at the wrong starting point - ourselves.

Obviously I am a creationist as opposed to an evolutionist, an optimist as opposed to a pessimist and I do not believe in re-incarnation.

nelly · 3 July 2006

kennas said:
The point is to make the 65-70 years the best possible years they can be. If you think life is going to be better after, in 'heaven', then you won't live this life to it's fullest and you'll waste it. LIVE THIS LIFE, NOW!! THERE IS NO OTHER.

Hi Kennas..I know I am worth a lot more than said number of years, we all are aren't we? What do you mean "to the fullest"...When you die are you going to say, "Bring me the gold watch/new car/painting," so you can hold it one more time, I think not rather it would be about the RELATIONSHIPS we have made while on this earth. You don't take anything with you, only your character, and you develop your character through relationships.That is our purpose.
IMHO the basic motive for success is the driving force of envy and jealousy [just think about it for a moment]
I am living my life to the fullest. I do not intend to waste anything. I am going to heaven.
I am living my life to the fullest. I do not intend to waste anything. I am not going to heaven.
Either way I will have lived my life to the fullest and wasted NOTHING. :newbie:

nelly · 3 July 2006

Julia said:
Wayne

I wish I'd said that. Thank you. Sums up my feelings perfectly.

Julia

Hi ya all...no offense....i value everyones opinion, and the right to express it but I find people who are un-informed can't really form an informed opinion..IMO

Does Reincarnation Exist? :)

Does Reincarnation Exist

YES

NO

NOT SURE

Mostafa

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Happy

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VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!

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Julia

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