Does finance really need the middle men?

[Temjin]

I think we should stop the train, get off and get another form of transport. This one is derailed and heading for a a pile of rocks, If it gets past those it is heading for a river where there used to be a bridge. If it gets past that you will have the answer to another thread (Is there a god?)

Maybe some of you have misunderstood me because of the tone of my post.

Which train are you talking about anyway?

I was referring to the whole capitalism system, and not just how greedy CEOs were able to take huge advantages through regulations loopholes and pursue short term personal profits with no regards to the well being of the entire economy. This is what Nassim say how one small advantage can lead to a huge disportional reward. The fact remains that life is NEVER FAIR.

I was merely referring to the whole capitalism system where a huge amount of global wealth are being controlled by a relatively small group of people. Of course, this result in every middle class being "slaved" to their jobs and suffer from their inability to go against the rich and power at times like this.

Unfortunately, this system has been in place for too long and personally, I think it would be pointless to even think about changing it.

Let's try to be realistic. What do you think we can do?? Do you think those in "power" would even let the middle class to threaten their wealth? Again, cal me a conspiracy theorist or something, but without appropriate power and wealth, there is nothing we can do to fight against such..."evil".?

Ron Paul is definitely trying to do that. Though while I admire him for his effort and courage, I would have to say that he has little chance to make any real changes to the whole "unfair" system. Of course, I hope he could at least make some changes and shift some of the power back to the middle class.

Sorry, I'm not quite on topic here.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Its money for exertion.

On that theory a brickies labourer should earn $330 mil a year

:bricks1:

 

[Macquack]

On that theory a brickies labourer should earn $330 mil a year

:bricks1:

Well they have a lot of catching up to do..

"Bricklayer's labourer jobs usually earn around $31,200 to start, assuming a regular flow of work (since the job is often project-based)." jobs.com.au

It would take a brickies labourer 1080 years to earn what Alan Moss earnt in one year - 2007 ($33.5 million), let alone your stupid figure of $330 mil a year.

 

[chops_a_must]

Let's try to be realistic. What do you think we can do?? Do you think those in "power" would even let the middle class to threaten their wealth? Again, cal me a conspiracy theorist or something, but without appropriate power and wealth, there is nothing we can do to fight against such..."evil".?

Just about every revolution I can think of throughout history has been the result of the middle class, despite the romantic notions to the contrary.

You start mucking around with their wealth, do things to change their perception of upward mobility and they will revolt.

Basically, one of the only reasons Great Britain didn't revolt in 1848 was because of the work done to appease the middle class.

It's not much good having wealth, if those with the real power in society (the middle class) refuse to implement your wishes and side with the antagonists.

 

[Happy]

Like being a bit pregnant?
I know.......Play soccer??

I know, salary cap like in football

 

[nioka]

Which train are you talking about anyway?
.

The gravy train. The one that arrived with the pyramid selling of finance. The one heading for a crash. The one I am leaving behind. The one I never saw going anywhere.
( check out my early posts for the quote "neither a borrower nor a lender be.")

 

[Trembling Hand]

( check out my early posts for the quote "neither a borrower nor a lender be.")

Very interesting Nioka. So

1. You have never had a loan?

2. Your business has never taken a loan or lease?

3. You invest in companies that don't have dept?

4. You don't invest in companies that lend?

 

[nioka]

Very interesting Nioka. So

1. You have never had a loan?

2. Your business has never taken a loan or lease?

3. You invest in companies that don't have dept?

4. You don't invest in companies that lend?

1. Yes I have had loans ( but I never inhaled ???) They never did me any good . I worked for the bank while I had loans. That is why I don't believe in most loans.
2. My business accepted finance as part of normal business practice ( remember the 3Ms (or 5Ms if you see it that way)
3. I try and invest in companies that have their own financial backing. Part of the fundamental requirements. ( I do have shares in centro although not expensive ones as they are discounted in my eyes by their debt)
4. No, or rather yes. Yes I avoid companies that lend.

I have found over the years that you get more for your money in the end if you save for what you want to have. Slow and steady wins the race.

It is the leaches I dislike. For example I know of a case where a struggling businessman was refused a $10,000 increase in his overdraft but two days later received a letter from his bankcard provider offering a $10,000 increase in his credit limit.

To get back to the issue in this thread. Does business need the middle man where finance is required. The question is not does business need finance. Business does need finance. That is why they issue shares in the first place. That is why they lease premises. Do they need a middle man?. If they use a middle man then what is a fair charge for the service by that middle man.

Right now I am working to try and save a company that is brought to the brink of bankrupsy by convertable notes attracting a 24% interest charge that former directors stupidly used as temporary finance. If I succeed that company will function without debt in the future. If I don't, then I'm sure the company is history.

 

[chops_a_must]

It is the leaches I dislike. For example I know of a case where a struggling businessman was refused a $10,000 increase in his overdraft but two days later received a letter from his bankcard provider offering a $10,000 increase in his credit limit.

Or Commsec advising not to get a short term fixed interest on the margin loan, before interest rates shot up, and then sending me a letter saying to fix interest (which you have to pay on regardless), when I have no margin...

 

[Julia]

What do you propose?

The means of production be given to the workers?

Shades of "Animal Farm"?

Nioka, have you read this?

 

[Gundini]

The financial system is out of control . In the current form it will destroy the capitalist system. It has many faults

1. It promotes greed.
2. It is too expensive.
3. It puts the control of our society in the hands of a few.
4. Much of the control is in the hands of the faceless few.
5. It allows the benefits of productivity to be unfairly distributed.
6. There are too many middlemen (leaches in my view) sucking the lifeblood from productivity.
7. It allows those that get hold of the controls of a business to reward themselves with benefits out of proportion to their actual worth.



Farmers have learnt the hard way that the middlemen were keeping them in the poor house. Take the chicken industry. There used to be ;
1. A farmer growing grain
2. A grain merchant
3. A carrier
4. A feed miller
5 Another carrier
6 A chicken hatchery
7 A carrier
8 A chicken grower
9 A poultry auction house or buyer.
10 An abattoir
11 A poultry wholesaler.

Between each one there was a bank and each step there was a bank transaction.

Then came integration. Chicken changed from being a special occasion luxury food to being a cheap and readily available one.

I rest my case ... for now.

While I don't argue with your post, why is it edited by the Professor?

 

[nioka]

While I don't argue with your post, why is it edited by the Professor?

Ask the professor. He believes th.... Just ask the professor

 

[nioka]

Shades of "Animal Farm"?

Nioka, have you read this?

Sometimes I think that this forum has more in common with animal farm than reality. If only it wasn't so serious a problem it would make a great comedy movie. Now that I am the resident troll and a troll appears to be half animal and I do have a hobby farm maybe I am living out animal farm in real life.

But then look at it this way; I only ask the questions that need to be answered.

 

[chops_a_must]

Sometimes I think that this forum has more in common with animal farm than reality. If only it wasn't so serious a problem it would make a great comedy movie. Now that I am the resident troll and a troll appears to be half animal and I do have a hobby farm maybe I am living out animal farm in real life.

But then look at it this way; I only ask the questions that need to be answered.

My first post was actually half serious Nioka...

Although I'm antagonistic, I and others certainly share your sentiment, regardless of where the basis of what your stand point is.

So what do you actually propose be done?

Simple things like growers/ farmers markets are fantastic on the small scale, but it is where more ideological bound people than yourself come undone, trying to implement similar ideas on a larger scale.

 

[wayneL]

But then look at it this way; I only ask the questions that need to be answered.

...but never answer questions that need to be asked.

 

[cuttlefish]

What could someone possibly do to earn $33mil a year?

Did they cure cancer? No...
Did they alleviate poverty? No...
Did the achieve world peace? No...
Did they stop global warming? No...
I could go on...

I know.......Play soccer??

Way too much effort - how about ...

Drive a car

The world's highest-salaried athlete pulls in $35 million a year from his racing contract with Ferrari. While rumors swirled that the carmaker wanted the German to take a pay cut, Schumacher just signed a contract extension through 2006 with a reported 10% raise. Licensing income and personal endorsement contracts with companies like Vodafone also add to the coffers.
http://www.forbes.com/celebrities20...ListType=Person&uniqueId=5WRJ&datatype=Person

or even easier

Get dressed and walk around

supermodel Gisele Bundchen rakes in $33 million a year, the new Forbes list of the top 15 richest supermodels says..

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/lifestyle/2007-07/17/content_5438080.htm

 

[nioka]

...but never answer questions that need to be asked.

What was the question again?
Then again I don't profess to have all the answers and some of those I have will be wrong. However I am open to reason. Some of my ideas are set in stone but they have to have proved themselves to earn that status with me. Then again I often change my mind. To convince me to change it needs reasoned discussion, any abuse and name calling will get the treatment it deserves. In life I have found it better to be beaten than bullied.

Some seem to get the impression that I love Government regulation. I detest it. I believe that for every new law there should be an old one repealed to balance. All new laws should have a sunset clause so they can be reviewed to see if they are still necessary. That would apply to the rules for shorting. Even though I hate regulation I'm afraid in this society there are too many villians that take advantages of our freedoms. Take the gun laws. I own guns, I believe everyone should know how to use a gun and the pros and cons associated with guns. The fact that they can be so dangerous in the hands of idiots and criminals made the gun laws necessary and our Johnny used it as a political weapon to make them onerous on the genuine gun owners. Now we are not as safe in our own homes because the crims know that they have little chance of getting shot for their trouble.

Sorry for the ramble, what was the Question?