Do you have to day trade to trade full time?

Trembling Hand · 20 July 2009

beerwm said:
wow,

check out the flaming on gooner.

obviously traders add nothing to society.
- its the same situation as putting 10 monkeys in a room fighting for 10 bananas.
-whatever the outcome society is no better off [10 bananas]. But individually a stronger monkey will get more bananas.
- ofcourse you can argue the inequality of each monkey not receiving a fair portion of bananas could create social problems among society - in which tradings actually detracts value from society.

dont feel bad though,
you're one of the strong monkeys
-and every monkey is a willing participant

Hehe. But the monkey fight needs lots of ticket collectors and cleaners. that's value.

beerwm · 20 July 2009

Trembling Hand said:
Hehe. But the monkey fight needs lots of ticket collectors and cleaners. that's value.

well,

considering that if the fight didnt occur - the monkeys would not need to clean the arena or collect tickets.

- so its really a cost to society in manpower [ monkeypower ]

dont get me wrong, trading is great.
And i'm sure I/We spend the money much better than accountants :

nomore4s · 20 July 2009

Anyone else find it ironic an unemployed accountant who trades is flaming daytraders for being an unproductive part of society?

malachii · 20 July 2009

nomore4s said:
Anyone else find it ironic an unemployed accountant who trades is flaming daytraders for being an unproductive part of society?

I love it!!!!!

Trembling Hand · 20 July 2009

beerwm said:
well,

considering that if the fight didnt occur - the monkeys would not need to clean the arena or collect tickets.

- so its really a cost to society in manpower [ monkeypower ]

So a capitalist system doesn't need monkey fights to function?

awg · 20 July 2009

without going into my unusual personal circs too much,

I am learning to trade because I virtually had to

as I am no longer in a position to do much other "work"

I pay GST when I spend my ill-gotten gains, so I am still contributing to the tax base

One of the most well paid guys I know is Sales manager of a large tobacco company.

The wealthiest guy I know is worth a 9 figure sum.

He used to have 70+ people work for him, he now has about 8

You could have a long debate about the harmfulness of many occupations

day traders are harmless to the earth IMO.

Mr J... I presume you are going bananas on a Demo account, if your strategies dont work on that, they wont work with real money.

The other thing to consider is due to the rise in the markets since March, you would expect the majority of traders to have been cleaning up.

I also totally agree with Frank D about long term compounding, that is one of the main reasons I have sufficient capital, as I always re-invested every cent of dividends into my account, never drew one cent out, added additional on a regular dollar cost average, and pumped more in on rising markets.

While working full-time for many years.

btw, some of that time I was staring at a screen most of the day

beerwm · 20 July 2009

Trembling Hand said:
So a capitalist system doesn't need monkey fights to function?

i dont see how?

if you're trading an oil contract without intention to buy oil - then i dont see how this would help valuation. - only distort price

cutz · 20 July 2009

beerwm said:
i dont see how?

if you're trading an oil contract without intention to buy oil - then i dont see how this would help valuation. - only distort price

So without speculators, how do producers lock in prices ?

beerwm · 20 July 2009

cutz said:
So without speculators, how do producers lock in prices ?

are speculators crucial to a marketplace?

It's Snake Pliskin · 20 July 2009

gooner said:
Assuming equity markets are broadly flat, the $200k has simply been made at someone else's expense. If equity markets are going up, then there is money for everyone, but the act of day trading does not increase the amount of money. If you work for $200k your labour is making something or serving someone, so there is an increase in output.

In both cases you spend your $200k which creates jobs, but only in one case are you also directly producing a good or a service.

With regard to the losers part who is to say they are losers? In stocks time and investment intention are important to consider. Traders provide liquidity for investors that want MORE and NOT JUST FOR APPRECIATION purposes. An investor may be living off the dividends and the holding time is far longer than the trader whis is looking for a gain in as short a time as possible.

Now those investors that live off dividends can contribute to society by paying ACCOUNTANTS to do their tax returns.

Communism isn't cool and is fault ridden as an ideology.

Microlending in Africa is helping people get out of poverty - they borrow money and pay it back. They are better off because of capitalistic principles - not handouts. When they discover trading they will be far better off because they can then help each other instead of relying on the lendings of foreigners.
http://www.kiva.org/
http://www.amazon.com/You-Can-Hear-...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1248059182&sr=8-1

beerwm · 20 July 2009

It's Snake Pliskin said:
Communism isn't cool and is fault ridden as an ideology.

who said anything about communism?

the debate about value is an economic one.

It's Snake Pliskin · 20 July 2009

beerwm said:
who said anything about communism?

I did.

cutz · 20 July 2009

beerwm said:
are speculators crucial to a marketplace?

Of course they are, how is an airline suppose to set ticket prices without knowing what they'll be paying for fuel next month/next 6 months/next year.

Trembling Hand · 20 July 2009

beerwm said:
i dont see how?

if you're trading an oil contract without intention to buy oil - then i dont see how this would help valuation. - only distort price

Arrh so here comes a lack of understanding about price discovery.

When you are given a piece of jewelry how do you get it valued? ask an expert.

When you want to sell/buy a house how do you judge current value? Look at market prices. The more sales the greater you weigh the info from the price.

When you get a quote from 3 plumbers to fix your dunny what are you doing? Getting a valuation from an expert.

Speculators operate on both the long and short side of the coin. They are in theory experts at valuing price.

Cartman · 20 July 2009

LOL at your edit above !!

Trembling Hand said:
When you get a quote from 3 plumbers to fix your dunny what are you doing?

generally wasting valuable time, unless you have more than one dunny in your house

Trembling Hand said:
They are in theory experts at valuing price.

Investors sometimes forget that the the market would be a pretty sad old place without the the traders doing their business

beerwm · 20 July 2009

cutz said:
Of course they are, how is an airline suppose to set ticket prices without knowing what they'll be paying for fuel next month/next 6 months/next year.

I dont understand your argument, an airline can just buy a futures contract for next month.

my definition of trader is: never have intention to buy product- just trade price movement
-many traders dont even take the value of the product into consideration.
eg, buy high, sell higher.

Trembling Hand said:
Speculators operate on both the long and short side of the coin. They are in theory experts at valuing price.

yes... this is all very good.

but what value is being created?

Trembling Hand · 20 July 2009

beerwm said:
I dont understand your argument, an airline can just buy a futures contract for next month.

yes... this is all very good.

but what value is being created?

have you every placed a trade?

Go put an order of some volume in an illiquid market and see what happens!!

cutz · 20 July 2009

beerwm said:
I dont understand your argument, an airline can just buy a futures contract for next month.

My point exactly, who do you reckon is on the other side of that trade providing the required liquidity.

nunthewiser · 20 July 2009

Trembling Hand said:
: Go put an order of some volume in an illiquid market and see what happens!!

yep .. comes in very handy if one has a closing order on the other side

beerwm · 20 July 2009

Trembling Hand said:
have you every placed a trade?

Go put an order of some volume in an illiquid market and see what happens!!

I dont understand, are you saying traders make the market more competitive?
--because that would add 'value' to society... and it maybe true... but in my opinion it is inconclusive.

Do you have to day trade to trade full time?

Trembling Hand

Can be found on the bid

beerwm

nomore4s

Commonsense isn't that common

malachii

Trembling Hand

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awg

beerwm

cutz

beerwm

It's Snake Pliskin

beerwm

It's Snake Pliskin

cutz

Trembling Hand

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Cartman

beerwm

Trembling Hand

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cutz

nunthewiser

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