Do you have to day trade to trade full time?

[Trembling Hand]

Re: Do you have to daytrade to trade fulltime?

Got to be quick to get in and out.

Funny I always thought getting out too quick was one of the big reason why people fail.

Not enough outliners to pay for the mistakes and expenses. R:R unfortunately requires letting some run.

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

Re: Do you have to daytrade to trade fulltime?

Aww Julia, that's awesome! My problem is i don't hold for long enough.

Julia, how do you get the patience to wait for those larger moves? Do you have a hobby that you indulge in?

Well done to Julia if she does that....MQG is on steroids, to hold it for that long, the way that thing gaps and jumps around.

Personally, I want to day trade for a living. I'm not on much per week working my normal job, so I figure if I can get good enough, and just at least match my regular job, that is enough for me, then build from there. I can potentially make my weeks wages on 1 trade, then I can have the week off if I wanted....and not "monitor the markets all day"....not that I would, I LOVE watching the markets and wouldn't rather do anything else, even if there wasn't money to be made, I would still do it, I find it fascinating.

 

[tech/a]

Re: Do you have to daytrade to trade fulltime?

Well done to Julia if she does that....MQG is on steroids, to hold it for that long, the way that thing gaps and jumps around.

Personally, I want to day trade for a living. I'm not on much per week working my normal job, so I figure if I can get good enough, and just at least match my regular job, that is enough for me, then build from there. I can potentially make my weeks wages on 1 trade, then I can have the week off if I wanted....and not "monitor the markets all day"....not that I would, I LOVE watching the markets and wouldn't rather do anything else, even if there wasn't money to be made, I would still do it, I find it fascinating.

Youll get over it.

 

[nunthewiser]

Re: Do you have to daytrade to trade fulltime?

i see no ones mentioned the weeks that go by when one takes loss after loss yet ........

but hey i dont spose that happens to all the succesful traders here hey ?

i know it does here

some weeks are roses

some weeks are dogpoo

at the end of the year its pizzas

thats what counts i reckon , in front at the end

i have a supplementry income that i live off, trading pays for all the other stuff

i am not a daytrader unless something jumps down my throat as a definate probability


more of a position trader here and that suits me and my lifestyle just fine

 

[Aussiest]

Re: Do you have to daytrade to trade fulltime?

then I can have the week off if I wanted....

In theory, it's a good idea. In practice, it's not a good idea to assume you can make a weeks wage and then take a week off. If you get stopped out, you'd need extra funds to compensate for the losses. Also, we sometimes have stagnant weeks, depending on which market you trade, so during those weeks you would be without a wage. That's why you need to let your winners run. Only problem is, once you see a small profit, any profit, it's tempting to take

 

[Trembling Hand]

Re: Do you have to daytrade to trade fulltime?

Sam

Gee mate that's a dangerous assumption.

In a previous life I helped people set up small business. A universal indicator of failure was,

I'm not on much per week working my normal job, so I figure if I can get good enough, and just at least match my regular job.

My response was that 99% of people don't get half way to their goals. If you are planing is at that level how is your life going to be on 50% of that??

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

Re: Do you have to daytrade to trade fulltime?

In theory, it's a good idea. In practice, it's not a good idea to assume you can make a weeks wage and then take a week off. If you get stopped out, you'd need extra funds to compensate for the losses. Also, we sometimes have stagnant weeks, depending on which market you trade, so during those weeks you would be without a wage. That's why you need to let your winners run. Only problem is, once you see a small profit, any profit, it's tempting to take

I know, agree 100%.
Not saying I would have the week off, not saying I'm going to quit my normal job, as I am lucky enough to be able to do both. Just saying the potential is there.

 

[marcadrian]

Re: Do you have to daytrade to trade fulltime?

I would say i would be comfortable at no mortgage + 100k of passive income being split between two adults through a discretionary trust. Thats about 80k of post-tax income, or $1500 a week for a family of four. I live in Sydney.

As for the "large capital base"... how big is enough? Would you call 300k a large enough capital base? What about 600k? I want to spend 2-3 hours a day and make 20-50% pa returns.

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

Re: Do you have to daytrade to trade fulltime?

Sam

Gee mate that's a dangerous assumption.

In a previous life I helped people set up small business. A universal indicator of failure was,

My response was that 99% of people don't get half way to their goals. If you are planing is at that level how is your life going to be on 50% of that??

I'm not assuming anything? If I am lucky enough to catch a decent trade at the beginning of the week, why can't I stop for the rest of the week?

I don't know why people are attacking me for it, I know I can have losses and WILL have losses, down weeks, up weeks. I'm not saying I'm going to rush out and ASSUME that I can just have a great trade every monday and she'll be right. Course not.

Still have my normal job and will keep my normal job, taking it real easy as far as trading goes, I don't see the problem.

 

[awg]

Re: Do you have to daytrade to trade fulltime?

i see no ones mentioned the weeks that go by when one takes loss after loss yet ........

but hey i dont spose that happens to all the succesful traders here hey ?

i know it does here

some weeks are roses

some weeks are dogpoo

at the end of the year its pizzas

thats what counts i reckon , in front at the end

i have a supplementry income that i live off, trading pays for all the other stuff

i am not a daytrader unless something jumps down my throat as a definate probability


more of a position trader here and that suits me and my lifestyle just fine

Hi Nun,

you beat me to it.

when the market goes down, its very hard to make dosh, unless you are very experienced/clever/lucky, as short side trading isnt something that comes naturally to everyone.

I got stopped out on 11 trades in a row once, took a while to bounce back from that, I can say it was as bad as any period I ever had at work!

like you I do the occasional day trade.

I have a reasonable capital base, and approx 25% of our family income is drawn down from it, I endeavour to maintain that base including inflation.

I have noticed that without the occasional outlier rising up to 50-100%, I would not be able to meet my aims

 

[bonkerrs]

Re: Do you have to daytrade to trade fulltime?

I'm not assuming anything? If I am lucky enough to catch a decent trade at the beginning of the week, why can't I stop for the rest of the week?

Not attacking you. In fact, I used to think the same way. But what about next time? By having a rest for the rest of the week you may miss other opportunities, other opps that may go towards the bigger picture, for when you have a string of losses.

 

[prawn_86]

Re: Do you have to daytrade to trade fulltime?

I want to spend 2-3 hours a day and make 20-50% pa returns.

You do realise that there are hundreds (if not thousands) of fund managers (and private investors) out there who do this 40+ hours a week and cannot even get these sort of returns?

I think you are deluding yourself.

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

Re: Do you have to daytrade to trade fulltime?

Not attacking you. In fact, I used to think the same way. But what about next time? By having a rest for the rest of the week you may miss other opportunities, other opps that may go towards the bigger picture, for when you have a string of losses.

Ok then, forget I said it.

Obviously if you take 1 trade at the beginning of the week, then have the week off, you are going to miss the other opportunities. 100% agree.

I'm not personally going to have the week off, as I said, I like watching the markets too much to just drop it for the rest of the week.

I was just merely stating that if one did have a good trade there is no reason why he/she can't stop if they wanted to.

Knew there was a reason I only had 100 odd posts since 2007.

Carry on.

 

[marcadrian]

Re: Do you have to daytrade to trade fulltime?

You do realise that there are hundreds (if not thousands) of fund managers (and private investors) out there who do this 40+ hours a week and cannot even get these sort of returns?

I think you are deluding yourself.

Ha.. you mean all those clever fund managers that were buying Allco and B&B all the way down to the bottom?

http://blog.sharefinder.com.au/index.php/2009/02/04/taking-responsibility-for-your-investmen

 

[nunthewiser]

Re: Do you have to daytrade to trade fulltime?

Knew there was a reason I only had 100 odd posts since 2007.

Carry on.

LOL dont be so sensitive

welcome to the sandpit

 

[kam75]

Re: Do you have to daytrade to trade fulltime?

Obviously the answer is no but I would like to know is it harder to pull a fulltime income from the markets without daytrading? And if it is harder, how much harder? Are capital requirements any higher?

I eventually want to use trading as my primary source of income but I don't really want to daytrade to do it as I find it quite stressful and tbh don't really enjoy daytrading, so I might as well keep doing what I'm doing if it came to a choice.

Thoughts?

I've been pulling a fulltime income from the market since 2002. All my analyses is done end of day and I never watch the market. But everyone is different. I think for most people, day trading will be the toughest type of trading because they will lack the discipline and ability to make decisions in an instant.

 

[ajjack]

Re: Do you have to daytrade to trade fulltime?

Hey kam your method sounds like Nic Darvas from the 50s.

How can you not watch the market, even when posting on ASF?

If your anayses are done end of day, arent they out of date
when placing your trade next day?

Sounds interesting, tell us more

 

[waz]

Re: Do you have to daytrade to trade fulltime?

My end goal is to be a full time day trader. I much prefer to be my own boss and its something I truely enjoy doing.
However before I can do this, I need enough capital to invest.

For the first 4 months this year, daytrading was my only source of income. (I was making upto 60 trades per day, mostly scalping and looking for pairs opportunities).
I came up with the below pros and cons from my experience:

PRO:
# You are your own boss
# You decided how hard and how long you work, (I could have easily just traded the aussie200 from 4pm to 4:30 and made a living off that)
# Its exciting
# You can work from home
# You can work from anywhere in the world
# You dont have to waste 10 hours a week travelling to and from work, (saving time and money).
# You learn a lot
# Its an interesting way to make a living
# Beneficial tax situation
# Uncapped earnings potential

CONS:
# You need a lot of capital to invest in the first place
# Its scarry and wreaks havoc on your emotional state
# You pretty much need to work and be in contact with your computer from 8am monday morn till 8am sat morn non stop. This was the worst part, I was struggling to sleep, staying awake for the first 30 mins of the US market, going to sleep for a few hours then waking for the last 30mins of the US market.
# You screwed if your internet connection goes down
# If you dont have enough capital you may get into cash flow problems, when your money is held in a trade which you dont want to exit just yet.
# People just assume your really unemployed and your gambling your money
# You can turn into a bit of a social recluse (your friends are people on forums that you have never met).
# Getting a loan is impossible


That being said, I still want to be a full time trader, at the moment I work in the IT industry as a contractor which gives me regular weekly income.
I will continue doing this for at least 3 years and trade part time, once I have enough capital, Im guessing I will need about 200k. 100k for weekly expenses for a year and backup funds, and 100k to trade with. Ive found the more money you have the less likely you are to take risky trades.

 

[nomore4s]

Re: Do you have to daytrade to trade fulltime?

Personally, I want to day trade for a living. I'm not on much per week working my normal job, so I figure if I can get good enough, and just at least match my regular job, that is enough for me, then build from there.

I agree with TH here. If your sole aim is to make enough money to match your wage or even to only slightly increase it you will find it difficult to succeed and imo you are better off working for wages. You would only need 1 bad month and you could be in trouble, let alone trying to grow your capital.

If coming off a fairly low wage base say 35-50k pa I think you would have to be able to earn at least 3x that amount trading to make it a worthwhile and having the capital to do this and be able to cover a few bad months is a problem for most. Running any sort of business (trading included) has a lot of hidden costs and problems.

 

[marcadrian]

Re: Do you have to daytrade to trade fulltime?

waz, with 100k, what are you expecting to make per year?