Do you have solar panels?

Smurf1976 · 13 November 2011

Eager said:
Don't know if it has already been asked in this thread or not (I haven't read it in full), but would the installation of solar panels add value to the home?

I would say yes, for the same reason that for a potential buyer, a house with solar hot water would probably sell easier than one with an old off-peak electric clunker. The way I see it, the more that the installation of solar panels becomes 'normal,' the more that people buying houses would demand it, since the initial outlay has already been made.

I've had differing opinions to this question in other places.

Airlines scrap perfectly serviceable planes simply because they are too costly to operate compared to new ones.

Manufacturing industries scrapped their oil-fired boilers when fuel costs became too high relative to coal or gas.

Whenever there's a spike in petrol prices, gas guzzlers become extremely difficult to sell and their value drops.

Traffic authorities around the country are throwing out halogen traffic lights in favour of the more energy efficient LED's. Many of those halogen units aren't that old nad this action is a response to rising electricity prices combined with the development of a cheaper alternative.

There are plenty of precedents for scrapping perfectly serviceable equipment and/or modifying it in response to rising energy prices. If there's a serious rise in electricity prices as many are predicting then I'd expect that any "normal" (ie not a mansion etc where cost is not an issue) home that requires large amounts of electricity to operate will become a liability for the owners and will be difficult to sell. Adding solar panels would be the most obvious way to address this in many cases.

Smurf1976 · 13 November 2011

drsmith said:
Is that the rated peak AC output of the inverter and, if so, does it go above it.

The reason I ask is that mine is rated max AC output of either 1600W or 1650W, I'm not absolutely sure, but I have seen it go slightly above that (1655 to 1660 on a number of occasions), and on a couple of occasions, up to 1700W but only for about 2 to 3 seconds. This has been in sunny conditions when there is also reflectivity from cloud near the sun. During these conditions, the output can be quiet variable due to cloud movement.

The 1100W figure I quoted is the inverter limit and is a "hard" limit set by software in the inverter. Actual panels connected at present total 1360W.

In terms of what you are seeing, it is commonly known as "edge effect" and is a consequence of reflected light etc, noting that after a period of cloud cover the panels will be cool. Then the sun appears and cool panels + direct sunlight + reflected light = output above nominal rating.

drsmith · 13 November 2011

Smurf1976 said:
The 1100W figure I quoted is the inverter limit and is a "hard" limit set by software in the inverter. Actual panels connected at present total 1360W.

In terms of what you are seeing, it is commonly known as "edge effect" and is a consequence of reflected light etc, noting that after a period of cloud cover the panels will be cool. Then the sun appears and cool panels + direct sunlight + reflected light = output above nominal rating.

I underatstand the cool panels + direct sunlight + reflected light aspect of panel output.

I take it then you have never seen output go above the "hard" limit. I have (assuming it's the same as the max AC power rating), but only slightly.

pixel · 13 November 2011

Eager said:
Don't know if it has already been asked in this thread or not (I haven't read it in full), but would the installation of solar panels add value to the home?

I would say yes, for the same reason that for a potential buyer, a house with solar hot water would probably sell easier than one with an old off-peak electric clunker. The way I see it, the more that the installation of solar panels becomes 'normal,' the more that people buying houses would demand it, since the initial outlay has already been made.

I've had differing opinions to this question in other places.

How much an installed clean energy system is worth to the buyer may differ, depending on circumstances. There is a clause in the residential FIT scheme that concerns the transfer to a new owner:

*If the property with the renewable energy system is sold or leased within the 10-year period, payments will transfer to the new owners or tenants if they are eligible.

see http://www.energy.wa.gov.au/2/3654/64/residential_.pm for details. But generally, it will affect the price you can ask for your home.

todster · 13 November 2011

sptrawler said:
Your spot on todster, its a bit nauseas at work, where everyone is going on about mine is bigger than yours and I produced x more KW than you.
Most of the solar installations are in affluent areas, poor areas can't afford them. Which is a shame because they could do with them the most.
Oh well, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, as usual. It is a strange world we live in.

Hey sp it's a great change from the investment property talk at the workplace.

Smurf1976 · 13 November 2011

drsmith said:
I underatstand the cool panels + direct sunlight + reflected light aspect of panel output.

I take it then you have never seen output go above the "hard" limit. I have (assuming it's the same as the max AC power rating), but only slightly.

I think you're probably referring to the rating of the panels themselves?

What I'm referring to is the inverter's output limit which is simply set at 1100W. It could run higher, but would fry the inverter pretty quickly hence the limit. It wouldn't exceed this if I connected 1500, 2000 or even 10,000 watts of panels to it.

Panels on the other hand will certainly exceed their nominal rating from time to time under certain conditions and this will end up as AC power if it's within the inverter's capability. In my case however I've quite intentionally installed panels with a higher rating than the inverter so it's the inverter, not the panels, which sets the limit and there's no prospect of exceeding it.

sptrawler · 13 November 2011

todster said:
Hey sp it's a great change from the investment property talk at the workplace.

You think so
At least with investment properties you could have a laugh at the horror stories.
With this solar stuff it won't become a drama untill the feed in tarrifs cut out.
Then smart meters that have been installed can really be exploited and everyone will be screaming, give me back the inductive disk meter.

todster · 13 November 2011

sptrawler said:
You think so
At least with investment properties you could have a laugh at the horror stories.
With this solar stuff it won't become a drama untill the feed in tarrifs cut out.
Then smart meters that have been installed can really be exploited and everyone will be screaming, give me back the inductive disk meter.

And a big magnet

sptrawler · 14 November 2011

And guess what todster, they payed to get their own meter upgraded.LOL
What am I saying, I was one of them OMG
Time of day charging. please noooo

Smurf1976 · 14 November 2011

If you're interested in seeing how solar and wind can work as a major component of power supply into a grid then have a look here. It's only a small grid on an island, but it does show how the different technologies can work together and provides useful experience that could be applied on a larger scale. There's real time data on the website too.

http://www.kingislandrenewableenergy.com.au/

Currently have the original diesel power station, wind farm, solar power, storage battery and a loading resistor. In the process of adding fly wheel and thermal storage systems as well.

This is the only source of power on the island and it does work quite nicely...

todster · 14 November 2011

sptrawler said:
And guess what todster, they payed to get their own meter upgraded.LOL
What am I saying, I was one of them OMG
Time of day charging. please noooo

Yeah had a smart meter installed about 10years ago seemed like a good idea at the time.
We have no scheme water everything is pumped,bloody big swimming pool tropical gardens.
Usually sit down crack a beer before opening anything with synergy written on it.

bellenuit · 14 November 2011

I don't know what the issue with smart meters is? I installed a smart meter as part of my solar install and also moved to the smart power tariff rather than the fixed tariff (called A1 in WA). Although it is hard to separate out the savings made from solar, I am fairly sure that even without the panels I would have made savings by moving to a smart meter and smart power tariff. It may not be doable by everyone, but by adjusting my power consumption to off peak times, I was able to make savings independent of the FIT.

drsmith · 15 November 2011

I stayed on A1.

About 5 months after the smart meter install, I calculated the cost of the variable tariff structure against against total usage at the A1 rate and found that if I had switched to smart power, the cost of the electricity I used from the grid would have been about 9% higher.

bellenuit · 15 November 2011

drsmith said:
I stayed on A1.

About 5 months after the smart meter install, I calculated the cost of the variable tariff structure against against total usage at the A1 rate and found that if I had switched to smart power, the cost of the electricity I used from the grid would have been about 9% higher.

I agree that smart power isn't for everyone. I have a few friends with several teenage kids who tell me the changes I have made would simply not be possible in their environment.

For us, winter is the hardest part as the high cost tariff is 7am - 11am and 5pm - 9pm. Lots of cooking, showers etc at those times that can't really be avoided. But we found summer easy, as highest cost is 11am to 5pm, lowest cost is 9pm to 7am and rest of the time at slightly lesser rates than A1. We found that running the aircon on the very hot days at night just between 9pm and 7am kept the house cool for the rest of the day. On a few days we needed to turn it on before 9pm, perhaps at 5pm, but the rate for that period is slightly less than A1 in any case. Weekends are a no brainer, as all periods costs less than A1.

drsmith · 15 November 2011

Crunching the numbers again from September 25 to today (mostly summer period), the cost difference is 17% in favour of smart power. Overall though (since early April), it's still about 4% in favour of A1.

It will be interesting to see after 12 months and a full contribution from both the summer and winter smart power rates.

http://www.synergy.net.au/at_home/smartpower.xhtml

bellenuit · 15 November 2011

drsmith said:
Crunching the numbers again from September 25 to today (mostly summer period), the cost difference is 17% in favour of smart power. Overall though (since early April), it's still about 4% in favour of A1.

It will be interesting to see after 12 months and a full contribution from both the summer and winter smart power rates.

http://www.synergy.net.au/at_home/smartpower.xhtml

When you switched to the smart power tariff, did you make any adjustments as to when you use appliances to get the cheaper off peak rates? We usually now leave usage of the dishwasher and washing machine to after 9pm. We haven't become power nazis, but find that by rescheduling when we use appliances can give us substantial cost savings with very little impact on our day to day activities.

drsmith · 15 November 2011

I'm not on smart power, but the individual smart power tariffs are accessable on the meter for direct comparison with the A1 flat tariff and vice-versa.

http://www.synergy.net.au/at_home/how_can_i_read_my_meter.xhtml

Channels 10, 20, 30 and 40 are the individual smart power tariffs.
Channel 07 (total KW hours) is what is read for A1. On mine, this is also the default display.

My meter is the button type. There's a seperate button to read the amount fed into the grid from the solar panels (channel 107).

kimcasablancas · 15 November 2011

Occasionally there's Groupon coupons (click for reference) for them btw, so it's probably worth it to check back sometimes. If I get them I'll probably go that route for sure.

drsmith · 15 November 2011

Is that groupon coupons or groapon coupons ?

Either way, I think I'll pass.

bellenuit · 16 November 2011

drsmith said:
I'm not on smart power, but the individual smart power tariffs are accessable on the meter for direct comparison with the A1 flat tariff and vice-versa.

http://www.synergy.net.au/at_home/how_can_i_read_my_meter.xhtml

Channels 10, 20, 30 and 40 are the individual smart power tariffs.
Channel 07 (total KW hours) is what is read for A1. On mine, this is also the default display.

My meter is the button type. There's a seperate button to read the amount fed into the grid from the solar panels (channel 107).

As a direct comparison you are probably right in your cost comparisons. But Smart Power is also meant to encourage you to change your usage pattern so that heavy usage is directed towards the lower tariff periods away from the high tariff periods. For me, that changes the equation in favour of smart power.

Do you have solar panels?

Smurf1976

Smurf1976

drsmith

pixel

DIY Trader

todster

Smurf1976

sptrawler

todster

sptrawler

Smurf1976

todster

bellenuit

drsmith

bellenuit

drsmith

bellenuit

drsmith

kimcasablancas

drsmith

bellenuit

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