Do you have solar panels?

[Smurf1976]

Would the more expensive panels be likely to last longer ?

Hard to know really.

The LG panels are in the "expensive" category and do look to be a quality product which hasn't come out of the same factory as the generics. Whether or not they'll last longer though, well that's much harder to know since we're talking about a lifespan that ought to be decades.

Good installation is crucial to panel longevity however - under no circumstances should there be twist or other pressure exerted on the panels, they need to sit flat on the rails and be clamped in place but no twisting is acceptable. They won't fail immediately but it'll greatly increase the chance of stress fractures of the individual cells and eventually that kills the panel.

Which brings me to an important point - a decent installer who knows what they're doing and who does things properly is crucial. Regardless of the equipment, it needs to be properly installed - we're talking about something that should last a very long time here so it needs to be done properly.

 

[Smurf1976]

So if 3 are in the shade am I my losing more than 1/8 of what I would be getting if there was no shading?

In short yes.

If you have 24 panels then depending on the panel size and voltage they are probably wired as two strings of 12 panels or they could possibly be done as 3 x 8 depending on the panels and inverter.

Regardless of that detail, current flow through the string will be limited to the lowest performing panel not the highest or the average.

Eg for simplicity let's suppose we have 10 panels in series with 9 in full sun and one completely shaded. The output you get will be equal to that of 10 shaded panels since the lowest will limit current flow through the whole string.

A shaded panel is a bottleneck basically.

Simple solution for an existing system is install optimisers on any panels subject to shading. In simple terms that enables a by-passing of the shade-induced obstruction to the rest of the system. So in that case you'll only lose output from the panels which are actually shaded.

Happy to explain further - I've cut this short because I'm about to run out the door. Back later.

 

[Belli]

I now have twelve months of financials for the operation of the two PV solar systems for my home which covers all appliances, cooking, heating and cooling. The net cost to me was $63.28. Before installing the systems I estimate I was paying over $2,000 pa (haven't kept the actual numbers.)

Of course my household structure and usage is different to others.

 

[marys]

I have a solar panel on my house roof. I also researched some articles and found this one for you about 25 kW Solar System - Blog About Solar Energy | Websolarguide

 

[Belli]

I now have twelve months of financials for the operation of the two PV solar systems for my home which covers all appliances, cooking, heating and cooling. The net cost to me was $63.28. Before installing the systems I estimate I was paying over $2,000 pa (haven't kept the actual numbers.)

Of course my household structure and usage is different to others.

Did a comparison of the electricity consumption for June-August 2019 v current period (with two days to go so close enough.)

First I live in Canberra so it does get cold during the Winter months and for me that is the period of the largest energy consumption mostly heating.

The electricity bill for the period ending 8 August was just on 20% lower than pcp. On the energy usage aspect:

June 2020 17% lower than June 2019
July 2020 25% lower
August 2020 to 29/8 is 32% lower.

I haven't changed my usage habits - when I'm cold I heat the house and push the button on the ducted recycle system. However, the energy provider has also changed its pricing policy the major aspect being a 38% reduction in the daily supply charge. Consumption charges have also reduced but not to the same extent being a reduction of 1%. They have also reduced the feed-in tariff by 27%.

The only recent enhancement I have made to the house is replacing the timber front doors with double glazed ones in February this year as the level of draft, despite weather strips, was quite high. Although this would have some impact I doubt it would account entirely for the reduction in energy usage. Possible but I don't think that would be the case.

On the production of solar energy, it is less that the same period last year. Variable days due to weather events. On a couple of days export production as a result was down to 1.5 to 3kWh.

All-in-all despite the good and bad with pricing, I feel the overall result is good from my perspective. Despite the apparent brouhaha in some part of the mainstream media about electricity bill shock, it hasn't happened to this little black duck unless a bill reduction is considered a shock.

Now, if only they would introduce micro-grids in my neck of the woods. Yet to happen.

 

[Value Collector]

Did a comparison of the electricity consumption for June-August 2019 v current period (with two days to go so close enough.)

First I live in Canberra so it does get cold during the Winter months and for me that is the period of the largest energy consumption mostly heating.

The electricity bill for the period ending 8 August was just on 20% lower than pcp. On the energy usage aspect:

June 2020 17% lower than June 2019
July 2020 25% lower
August 2020 to 29/8 is 32% lower.

I haven't changed my usage habits - when I'm cold I heat the house and push the button on the ducted recycle system. However, the energy provider has also changed its pricing policy the major aspect being a 38% reduction in the daily supply charge. Consumption charges have also reduced but not to the same extent being a reduction of 1%. They have also reduced the feed-in tariff by 27%.

The only recent enhancement I have made to the house is replacing the timber front doors with double glazed ones in February this year as the level of draft, despite weather strips, was quite high. Although this would have some impact I doubt it would account entirely for the reduction in energy usage. Possible but I don't think that would be the case.

On the production of solar energy, it is less that the same period last year. Variable days due to weather events. On a couple of days export production as a result was down to 1.5 to 3kWh.

All-in-all despite the good and bad with pricing, I feel the overall result is good from my perspective. Despite the apparent brouhaha in some part of the mainstream media about electricity bill shock, it hasn't happened to this little black duck unless a bill reduction is considered a shock.

Now, if only they would introduce micro-grids in my neck of the woods. Yet to happen.

My house is 100% electricity for everything, heating, cooling, Hot water, cooking, My car, and even the lawn mower, and my 8.23 KW solar system covers my total usage averaged thought out the year.

however the time of year does Affect it, my bills were as follows.


Summer $54 Bill ( high air conditioning)
Autumn $129 credit
Winter $80 Bill (lower production, heating)
Spring $95 credit

I am super happy with our system, because we work from how summer time bills used to be huge, with air conditioning, now it’s less than the cost of the supply charge, and that’s including the addition of an electric car.

 

[Belli]

Nice going there @Value Collector.

My bills are greater than yours but so are the refunds. As usual it all depends on many factors; house orientation, numbers in household, etc.

If there is one thing which does annoy me is people such as my neighbour who sprouts nonsense averages about electricity usage without understanding averages do not necessarily apply to individual households. Yes, they are included in the average but they aren't the average. I suppose he annoys me as he keeps claiming he is subsiding my solar power. Hmm, former electrician whose business failed, ended as a property manager so knows absolutely everything about building and energy. Tiresome person who is an example the Dunning Kruger effect is alive and well.

 

[Value Collector]

Nice going there @Value Collector.

My bills are greater than yours but so are the refunds. As usual it all depends on many factors; house orientation, numbers in household, etc.

If there is one thing which does annoy me is people such as my neighbour who sprouts nonsense averages about electricity usage without understanding averages do not necessarily apply to individual households. Yes, they are included in the average but they aren't the average. I suppose he annoys me as he keeps claiming he is subsiding my solar power. Hmm, former electrician whose business failed, ended as a property manager so knows absolutely everything about building and energy. Tiresome person who is an example the Dunning Kruger effect is alive and well.

I don’t know why he thinks he is subsiding your solar, 10 years ago that was probably the case, but now that all bills pay for usage as well as the connection fee, and our solar feed in tariffs are less than what we buy electricity for it’s not the case any more.

You pay the same daily charge to be connected to the grid as he does.

 

[Belli]

Sorry about the rant. I'm 70 and happy that I am. It affords me the privilege of telling those who annoy me to go and get fundamentally fumigated and not care.

 

[Belli]

I am currently paying $18 per month for electricity using the energy providers averaging calculations based on Winter readings from last year. Sneaky dastards recently reviewed (?) the payment and increased the amount by $4 per month. If I used their calculations for Winter just past the amount would be $65 per month. I have decided to leave the payment at $18 pm. Summer is close and the export credit plus payment will build up and I'll consume most of that next Winter.

I did the usual annual search for the electricity deal using the energymatters website. Plugged in the NMI and there is still nothing better than what I am presently paying.

 

[SirRumpole]

Now that this thread has come up again I'll pose a question.

Originally, the recommendation was for north aligned panels , but someone told me that it's better to have east-west aligned panels.

Can anyone clarify this ?

Thanks.

 

[rederob]

Now that this thread has come up again I'll pose a question.

Originally, the recommendation was for north aligned panels , but someone told me that it's better to have east-west aligned panels.

Can anyone clarify this ?

Thanks.

This should help:

However this informative article tells you why it can make sense orienting west, depending on your electricity plan and the time of day you use most electricity.
So nothing wrong with choosing different orientations depending on usage and the plan you are locked into.

 

[moXJO]

I don’t know why he thinks he is subsiding your solar, 10 years ago that was probably the case, but now that all bills pay for usage as well as the connection fee, and our solar feed in tariffs are less than what we buy electricity for it’s not the case any more.

You pay the same daily charge to be connected to the grid as he does.

Solar rebates?
Wasn't there some rebate on the installation?
Wasn't the feed in tarrifs raising prices via both upgrades and oversupply?
Genuine question.

 

[Value Collector]

Solar rebates?
Wasn't there some rebate on the installation?
Wasn't the feed in tarrifs raising prices via both upgrades and oversupply?
Genuine question.

I believe the solar rebates are funded through the sale of the green certificates, but either way the fossil fuel industry receives government hand outs.

feed in tariffs these days are pretty representative of the market price for electricity, especially when you factor in that the electricity is sold directly into your neighbourhood, without the costs of transmission and energy losses etc.

 

[rederob]

I believe the solar rebates are funded through the sale of the green certificates, but either way the fossil fuel industry receives government hand outs.

feed in tariffs these days are pretty representative of the market price for electricity, especially when you factor in that the electricity is sold directly into your neighbourhood, without the costs of transmission and energy losses etc.

I think there may have been some tweaking of the system in recent years, but am not sure.
This link gives a better idea of how it all works now,

 

[bellenuit]

Now that this thread has come up again I'll pose a question.

Originally, the recommendation was for north aligned panels , but someone told me that it's better to have east-west aligned panels.

Can anyone clarify this ?

Thanks.

My understanding is as follows, but I am no expert.

Assuming no shading, you generate the maximum amount of solar power when the panels are facing where the sun is at midday, which will be generally be to the geographic north.

Household power consumption during daylight hours, particularly for working families with school going children, is generally at its highest in the mornings and in the early evenings. The mornings due to cooking breakfasts, showering (for electric water heaters) etc. and in the early evenings due to cooking dinners, maybe TV watching and in particular air conditioning usage on hot days. Air conditioning usage tends to make the early evenings more energy dependent than mornings. Middle of the day usage is low due to parents working and kids at school.

About a decade or more ago, when many people were on very generous feed-in tariffs that were greater than the cost of buying power, it made sense to have the panels orientated to the north. The more power you could feed to the grid the better as you get more for your power that way than you would save in not paying for grid power.

When the generous feed in tariffs ended, the equation changed. Here in WA the feed-in tariff is only a fraction of the cost charged by the energy suppliers. That means it is better to use your own produced power as much as possible in preference to taking power from the grid. So north facing panels mean that your need for power is at its lowest when you are producing it at the maximum and your need for power is highest when you are producing the least. So an east or west or both direction solution can actually be the cheapest solution overall. You still do not produce as much power as when your panels are facing north, but the lesser amount being produced is more effective at keeping costs lowest overall.

Obviously there are lots of provisos that go with the above. Usage of smart tariff meters, being a non-typical household, having smart appliances that can be time controlled, use of battery storage etc. all will have an impact on what is the best orientation.

 

[sptrawler]

Spot on @bellenuit

 

[Smurf1976]

feed in tariffs these days are pretty representative of the market price for electricity

For the record *** (electricity company) is quite happily paying their customers in SA 12.7 times the market value of solar electricity at present.

In truth, at the wholesale level, well electricity never was expensive and it's worth even less now.

Average spot market value for rooftop solar over the last 12 months:

NSW = $44.63
Tasmania = $35.70
Queensland = $32.82
WA = $29.13
Victoria = $22.20
SA = $4.71

All prices in $ per MWh.

As a consumer I won't object to being subsidised but I won't expect that to continue forever. At some point such things tend to change.

What really needs to happen however is on the consumption side. Early afternoon on Sunday and there was about 1800 MW of wind and solar generation curtailed, that is turned off, across the mainland NEM states.

Now if it were up to me, well I'd be making sure we put that to use so far as possible. Technically that's pretty straightforward albeit unexciting. Politically well it's difficult.....

 

[Value Collector]

For the record *** (electricity company) is quite happily paying their customers in SA 12.7 times the market value of solar electricity at present.

In truth, at the wholesale level, well electricity never was expensive and it's worth even less now.

Average spot market value for rooftop solar over the last 12 months:

NSW = $44.63
Tasmania = $35.70
Queensland = $32.82
WA = $29.13
Victoria = $22.20
SA = $4.71

All prices in $ per MWh.

As a consumer I won't object to being subsidised but I won't expect that to continue forever. At some point such things tend to change.

What really needs to happen however is on the consumption side. Early afternoon on Sunday and there was about 1800 MW of wind and solar generation curtailed, that is turned off, across the mainland NEM states.

Now if it were up to me, well I'd be making sure we put that to use so far as possible. Technically that's pretty straightforward albeit unexciting. Politically well it's difficult.....

Not really though, The retailer has to buy the power at a whole price, but will also have to pay transmission and distribution costs, and suffer losses. Where as when a solar feed in goes from the one house to the neighbors house, there is no transmission costs or losses.

Also, some times the power is resold and consumed in the same house that generates it at a higher price than the feed in tariff.

for example I get paid a 15cent feed in tariff, but if my hot water system is running on the off peak circuit which it does every day, I have to rebuy my own power at 17.5 cents plus GST.

 

[DB008]

New build, new solar

Longi Panels (450W LONGi Solar Hi-MO4m) with Enphase inverters as l have shade in the afternoon

7.2kw system. Touch under $9k.

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