Do you have solar panels?

basilio · 29 January 2019

Lantern said:
To all people who are thinking about connecting lead acid/AGM batteries in parallel please read and try to understand this.
http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html

Whilst there is a correct way to do it, in reality it's never a good idea.

Wow ! The internet just justified itself... alomost.
Nice to learn something practical and well explained.

Djamila78 · 1 February 2019

Wyatt said:
Good move. Having had a 6+KW system on my roof for nearly 5 years and a smaller system prior to that, I can vouch that solar is great (especially on a nice feed in tariff) It is very consistent over the years...

We have installed a similar system for the residential sector of the farm. It paid for itself in more than six months. Some of the energy went on the milking sheds (click here). I'm thinking about installing the next installation after expanding the territory.

Belli · 2 February 2019

As part of the renovations to my home, solar panels were installed.

System:
19 x 345W panels
Sunny Boy 5.0 single phase.

Location: Canberra, 37 degrees north-east, roof incline 22 degrees. No shading.

Pricing (rounded to very close approximates):

Smart meter.

Daily supply charge $1.39 per day;
Monthly maximum demand charge (maximum use in any one-half hour block between 5pm and 8pm) multiplied by number of days in month and charged at 16c per kWh, essentially a high watermark impost;
Peak usage charge of 20c per kWh;
Off-peak (hot water) charge of 16c per kWh;
Feed-in tariff (no contract) of 11c per kWh.

I haven't taken much notice of how effective the system is - mainly because I don't think I can do anything to improve it's effeciency. However, for the first time I had a look at the January figures.

Solar production for month of January was 1,086 kWh.

Usage:

Off-peak: 62.7 kWh
Peak: 195.4 kWh
Solar exported: 752.6 kWh
Maximum demand on 4 January at 2.8 kWh

Ducted recycle cooling used (obviously) when temperatures were hitting over 35C.

So in rough terms the cost to me in January was:

Supply charge: $43.09;
Maximum demand charge: $13.89
Off- peak: $10.03
Peak: $39.08
Solar fee-in: $82.79
Net cost: $23.58, i.e. $0.76 per day

Overall not too bad I guess.

One odd thing, and I don't really understand why, is to do with the ducted cooling. Double glazing has also been installed. When the forecast has been for rather vile days, I have essentially put the place into lock-down around 10am and turned on the aircon. I haven't changed the default setting of 28C from when it was installed. Steady cool air coming through the outlets. However, it didn't seem to me the aircon was working overly hard and checking the thermometer occasionally it indicated the internal temperature of the house was 25C.

I was considering putting in solar hot water or a heat pump but decided against either as reviewing my off-peak usage over the two years prior to installing the PV solar system, the annual cost was around $230 and there wasn't any monetary benefit in paying $3,500 or more just to save, maybe, about $200 a year.

Nevertheless, as I have a very large roof space (essentially the house is a large rectangle of close to 15m straight,) another PV system will be installed soon. Again 19 x 345 watt panels but as part of the roof can become shaded during winter and at certain times of the day during Summer, they will have micro-inverters. The system will be a battery ready with SolarEdge 5 kW single phase - even though I have three-phase power to the house. I couldn't justify the additional cost of three-phase.

It's going to be interesting in many ways to see the results.

sptrawler · 2 February 2019

Belli said:
As part of the renovations to my home, solar panels were installed.

System:
19 x 345W panels
Sunny Boy 5.0 single phase.

Location: Canberra, 37 degrees north-east, roof incline 22 degrees. No shading.

Pricing (rounded to very close approximates):

Smart meter.

Daily supply charge $1.39 per day;
Monthly maximum demand charge (maximum use in any one-half hour block between 5pm and 8pm) multiplied by number of days in month and charged at 16c per kWh, essentially a high watermark impost;
Peak usage charge of 20c per kWh;
Off-peak (hot water) charge of 16c per kWh;
Feed-in tariff (no contract) of 11c per kWh.

I haven't taken much notice of how effective the system is - mainly because I don't think I can do anything to improve it's effeciency. However, for the first time I had a look at the January figures.

Solar production for month of January was 1,086 kWh.

Usage:

Off-peak: 62.7 kWh
Peak: 195.4 kWh
Solar exported: 752.6 kWh
Maximum demand on 4 January at 2.8 kWh

Ducted recycle cooling used (obviously) when temperatures were hitting over 35C.

So in rough terms the cost to me in January was:

Supply charge: $43.09;
Maximum demand charge: $13.89
Off- peak: $10.03
Peak: $39.08
Solar fee-in: $82.79
Net cost: $23.58, i.e. $0.76 per day

Overall not too bad I guess.

One odd thing, and I don't really understand why, is to do with the ducted cooling. Double glazing has also been installed. When the forecast has been for rather vile days, I have essentially put the place into lock-down around 10am and turned on the aircon. I haven't changed the default setting of 28C from when it was installed. Steady cool air coming through the outlets. However, it didn't seem to me the aircon was working overly hard and checking the thermometer occasionally it indicated the internal temperature of the house was 25C.

I was considering putting in solar hot water or a heat pump but decided against either as reviewing my off-peak usage over the two years prior to installing the PV solar system, the annual cost was around $230 and there wasn't any monetary benefit in paying $3,500 or more just to save, maybe, about $200 a year.

Nevertheless, as I have a very large roof space (essentially the house is a large rectangle of close to 15m straight,) another PV system will be installed soon. Again 19 x 345 watt panels but as part of the roof can become shaded during winter and at certain times of the day during Summer, they will have micro-inverters. The system will be a battery ready with SolarEdge 5 kW single phase - even though I have three-phase power to the house. I couldn't justify the additional cost of three-phase.

It's going to be interesting in many ways to see the results.

I can't believe how cheap your peak and off peak electricity is, obviously there are a lot of pluses living in Canberra.

Smurf1976 · 3 February 2019

Belli said:
Nevertheless, as I have a very large roof space (essentially the house is a large rectangle of close to 15m straight,) another PV system will be installed soon. Again 19 x 345 watt panels but as part of the roof can become shaded during winter and at certain times of the day during Summer, they will have micro-inverters. The system will be a battery ready with SolarEdge 5 kW single phase - even though I have three-phase power to the house. I couldn't justify the additional cost of three-phase.

A "heads up" - check with your electricity retailer to be sure that you aren't falling foul of any capacity limits beyond with the standard feed-in tariff (FIT) doesn't apply.

I'm not familiar with the rules in the ACT but for other states there are typically limits set by both the distributor (who owns the poles and wires) and the retailer (company who you pay for electricity) and those limits aren't necessarily the same.

There's probably no issue but I do recommend making sure "just in case".

Belli · 3 February 2019

sptrawler said:
I can't believe how cheap your peak and off peak electricity is, obviously there are a lot of pluses living in Canberra.

There is that aspect. I have briefly looked at pricing applicable in other States and concluded were not doing too bad here in that respect.

It's a real effort and a half going through the retailer's pricing plans and it really isn't simple with Time of Use plans, standard plans, etc, etc. All seemingly designed to confuse. I decided to elect the default Solar plan. There is simply no simple calculator I could find where you can just plug in the numbers on consumption and come up with a "best fit."

And to counter my next doors neighbours complaint (all of close to a 30 minute harangue) I'm installing solar at his expense as I'm not contributing to maintaining the infrastructure, the retailer sort of gets around that. Non-Solar plans have a daily supply charge of $1.07 per day and no maximum demand charge whereas solar is $1.39c daily supply charge and a maximum demand charge. Admittedly I pay 20c per kWh whereas he pays 25c per kWh. The small devil in me grins when I think the retailer buys off me at 11c per kWh and re-sells to him at 25c per kWh. Not exactly true but I like to think so.

Smurf1976 said:
A "heads up" - check with your electricity retailer to be sure that you aren't falling foul of any capacity limits beyond with the standard feed-in tariff (FIT) doesn't apply.

I'm not familiar with the rules in the ACT but for other states there are typically limits set by both the distributor (who owns the poles and wires) and the retailer (company who you pay for electricity) and those limits aren't necessarily the same.

There's probably no issue but I do recommend making sure "just in case".

Yep and thanks for that. As you'd know each PV system has to apply to the distributor to connect to the grid and that's been done in this case.

The retailer has no issue with two PV systems from the one location and advised there is no need for an additional smart meter as that was one issue which did cross my mind. I'm only required to confirm in writing after the system is installed with the NMI even though the retailer would be aware it happened via the smart meter. It maybe smart but maybe their not.

They are cunning though. At the time I had the first system installed, the limit for the FIT was 10 kW single phase and 30 kW for three-phase. Since then, while a 10 kW system for single phase can be installed the limit of the FIT for the system is 5 kW. The three phase limit still applies.

Could be it happened due to the up take of solar installations here where there has been close to a 100% increase in residential solar electricity production in 2018 compared with 2017. Usual situation of no cogent policy at a number of levels of Government so individuals take action according to their perception.

DB008 · 3 February 2019

Belli said:
There is simply no simple calculator I could find where you can just plug in the numbers on consumption and come up with a "best fit."

I find that Origin doesn't make it too hard.

Here are some screenshots of my current contract

I signed up for this plan last year and with the 5% discount and 14 FIT - I don't have bills anymore, l receive credit. Not bad at all.

Smurf1976 · 3 February 2019

Belli said:
They are cunning though. At the time I had the first system installed, the limit for the FIT was 10 kW single phase and 30 kW for three-phase. Since then, while a 10 kW system for single phase can be installed the limit of the FIT for the system is 5 kW.

The 5kW on single phase thing is an Australian Standard so it’s a national requirement.

Some electricity distributors, SA and Tas and possibly elsewhere, will allow some “creativity” on the part of those who want to push the limits but ultimately it’s a national standard that they’re just enforcing.

Belli · 4 February 2019

DB008 said:
I find that Origin doesn't make it too hard.

I signed up for this plan last year and with the 5% discount and 14 FIT - I don't have bills anymore, l receive credit. Not bad at all.

Appreciate this D808. I tried it but it doesn't work for me as Origin's data seems a little behind as it indicated I don't have solar at my address - which is incorrect.

I'll check them out further but it does appear one annoying aspect is it doesn't have a comprehensive pricing brochure which I am able to print out and study in detail. I'll need to ring and probably have to endure to a sales pitch simply to get data for my purposes.

Not overly concerned about it really as I installed solar for other reasons. Plus I didn't work hard to get the dosh. Merely using some funds from the January distributions of STW and VGS. The previous system was installed via a similar method.

Smurf1976 said:
The 5kW on single phase thing is an Australian Standard so it’s a national requirement.

Some electricity distributors, SA and Tas and possibly elsewhere, will allow some “creativity” on the part of those who want to push the limits but ultimately it’s a national standard that they’re just enforcing.

Thanks for that information Smurf1976. It clarifies the rationale behind the retailer's decision.

Belli · 1 March 2019

The second PV system has been installed (SolarEdge 5kW single phase, battery ready, 19 x 345 Q-Cell panels with power optimisers.) Became operational mid-morning. Smart meter three-phase as that is presumed necessary is for the size of this property I guess. Not a clue about that as it was connected before I bought this place.

Metering service advised no upgrade to smart meter required and wiring the PV solar to the smart meter along with the other 5kW system will not cause issues. Not being at all versed in this stuff I'll have to take the advice as correct until proven otherwise. As the feed-in terrif is based on each individual inverter, it seems I am eligible to receive the feed-in tariff (11c per kWh) for both.

Combined production on the day of installation was 55kWh (rounded) of which 50kWh was exported.

As with any new toy, I did have a look early in the morning as to how each PV system was doing. The system at one end of the house was producing 50w while the other, with the power optimisers, and was just starting to receive direct sunlight was producing 340w.

All very interesting, at least to me. I'll be curious to see:

(a) what it does to my electricity bill (the last was 80% less than the previous corresponding period and

(b) the operation of these systems over the cooler months.

DB008 · 1 March 2019

How much did the system cost?

Belli · 1 March 2019

DB008 said:
How much did the system cost?

$10,560 installed. Net of STC.

And the wink in my previous post was not supposed to be there. The auto thingy seems to like changing semi-colons.

Smurf1976 · 1 March 2019

Belli said:
I'll be curious to see:

(a) what it does to my electricity bill (the last was 80% less than the previous corresponding period and

(b) the operation of these systems over the cooler months.

For the bill I recommend checking very carefully to make sure everything's reasonably as expected. That is, that your account shows plausible volumes for import from the grid, export to the grid and any additional metering (eg off-peak hot water) if you have it.

That is especially so if you are located in SA, Vic, NSW or south-east Qld. Less likely to be dramas anywhere else although mistakes aren't impossible.

For the production in Winter versus Summer it really depends on orientation of the panels. Anything facing E or W will tend to have a greater seasonal variation than if they're facing N. For those facing N the tilt angle will have a major influence.

So it's very hard to generalise there.....

Wyatt · 1 March 2019

Here's a ripper chart to work out your potential PV harvest from a solar setup. Quick easy and accurate.
Data from10 cities across Australia.

See link half way down on 1st post. C/O Whirlpool Forums

https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2678825

Belli · 2 March 2019

Thank you peoples. Much appreciate your posts. If I need to I can access the retailers website which can provide me with a Yearly, Monthly, Weekly or Daily (in hourly increments) breakdown on exported solar or peak and off-peak usage.

I'll probably have a play with the calculators for the fun of it.

I have to be careful not to become over obsessed with this. One of my more unfortunate traits I'm afraid. From my current position this stuff is very marginal in a financial sense.

Belli · 2 March 2019

This is really only for me as a memory jogger down track as it is unlikely I'll check the systems very much in the future.

Data for 1 March 2019. Figures are in kWh.

SMA solar production: 39.506
SolarEdge solar production: 40.12
Combined: 79.626

Data from retailer:

Off-peak usage (10pm): 1.496
Peak: 3.697
Solar: 73.817

Smurf1976 · 4 March 2019

Contract has just been signed for my new system.

StorEdge (SolarEdge) 5kW inverter DC coupled to an LG RESU10 battery and with as many panels as can fit on the usable roof space, expected to be 5.11kW subject to minor variation at the time of installation.

Reason for not going bigger is lack of suitable roof space. It's shaded E & W so that only leaves N and there's a limit to the available space. I'm using rather expensive 365 Watt panels to get the biggest practical output from the limited available space.

Installation will be in about a month once all the paperwork, meter change etc is sorted out.

Macquack · 4 March 2019

Smurf1976 said:
Contract has just been signed for my new system.

StorEdge (SolarEdge) 5kW inverter DC coupled to an LG RESU10 battery and with as many panels as can fit on the usable roof space, expected to be 5.11kW subject to minor variation at the time of installation.

Reason for not going bigger is lack of suitable roof space. It's shaded E & W so that only leaves N and there's a limit to the available space. I'm using rather expensive 365 Watt panels to get the biggest practical output from the limited available space.

Installation will be in about a month once all the paperwork, meter change etc is sorted out.

How much, if you don't mind me asking? Those batteries aren't cheap.

Smurf1976 · 4 March 2019

Macquack said:
How much, if you don't mind me asking? Those batteries aren't cheap.

Just under $15k for the lot net of all rebates etc.

If I had more roof space without shading issues then I could have saved $2K easily by using panels with lower output per m2. That wasn't a realistic option however.

The battery + associated bits comes to about $10,850 less $4650 SA government subsidy = $6200 cost to me (installed price).

Ideologically I'm not keen on subsidies like that but pragmatically they're going to hand the money out, the scheme has a fixed quantity, so I'd be silly to not take it.

Macquack · 5 March 2019

Smurf1976 said:
Just under $15k for the lot net of all rebates etc.

If I had more roof space without shading issues then I could have saved $2K easily by using panels with lower output per m2. That wasn't a realistic option however.

The battery + associated bits comes to about $10,850 less $4650 SA government subsidy = $6200 cost to me (installed price).

Ideologically I'm not keen on subsidies like that but pragmatically they're going to hand the money out, the scheme has a fixed quantity, so I'd be silly to not take it.

The battery is a very good deal after the subsidy.

I have a technical question. If your load exceeds 5kWs (say 7 kW), does the battery via the inverter supply the full 5 kW with the shortfall 2 kW coming from the grid OR does the full 7 kWs come from the grid because the inverters maximum capacity is exceeded?

Do you have solar panels?

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