Direction of Housing?

[basilio]

We complain about the high cost of housing in Australia and one of the consequences is, in fact, a rise in the number of dog box apartments and people living in a room rather than a house. In effect a house with 4 bedrooms can have four separate people/couple perhaps more.

In Hong Kong they have become much more ruthless. With the high costs of rent even the poorest apartments are beyond the capacity of waiters, drivers, kitchen hands ect

The solution ? Subdivide the flats into smaller spaces.
How small? How about 15 sqft. - all up. Check out the story and the pics. Chilling stuff.

boxed in
Inside Hong Kong’s miserable coffin homes where thousands live in spaces barely bigger than their bed

A shocking 200,000 people are living in such cramped conditions in the city

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3743131/hong-kong-coffin-homes-pictures-size/

 

[moXJO]

We complain about the high cost of housing in Australia and one of the consequences is, in fact, a rise in the number of dog box apartments and people living in a room rather than a house. In effect a house with 4 bedrooms can have four separate people/couple perhaps more.

In Hong Kong they have become much more ruthless. With the high costs of rent even the poorest apartments are beyond the capacity of waiters, drivers, kitchen hands ect

The solution ? Subdivide the flats into smaller spaces.
How small? How about 15 sqft. - all up. Check out the story and the pics. Chilling stuff.

boxed in
Inside Hong Kong’s miserable coffin homes where thousands live in spaces barely bigger than their bed

A shocking 200,000 people are living in such cramped conditions in the city

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3743131/hong-kong-coffin-homes-pictures-size/

They do the same thing in Sydney when renting. They divide a 2 bdrm unit into a 9 bdrm.
You have a space just big enough to fit a bed and a 1m space next to it for your belongings.
It's been happening here for ages

 

[SirRumpole]

They do the same thing in Sydney when renting. They divide a 2 bdrm unit into a 9 bdrm.
You have a space just big enough to fit a bed and a 1m space next to it for your belongings.
It's been happening here for ages

We keep digging a hole for ourselves by our own stupid political policies.

High immigration, negative gearing, property developers building oversized houses on tiny blocks, foreign investors, centralisation on the east coast.

All these have to be changed if our descendants are going to have a quality lifestyle.

 

[moXJO]

How much room do you realistically need?
Asians are generally happy living in small spaces. I did it for about a year in Sydney with a partner and it was no problem. And this was at 40 and having enough money not to need to.
The room was just big enough to fit a bed and a small cupboard. It was in an office level and about 40 rooms made from plyboard. You were in the city hotzone so there was always something to do.

From a green perspective you use less power and create less waste. Its easier to build money up and you're close to everything. You don't clutter as much junk and furniture together either.
Much easier to do if you're single or don't have kids
City living will be heading in this direction unless you want to cull the worlds population.
The days of the mega mansion are over. Smart use of space is the future of city living.
Australians are pretty spoilt and greedy in a lot of areas. What we need and what we think we deserve are poles apart.

 

[McLovin]

How much room do you realistically need?
Asians are generally happy living in small spaces. I did it for about a year in Sydney with a partner and it was no problem. And this was at 40 and having enough money not to need to.
The room was just big enough to fit a bed and a small cupboard. It was in an office level and about 40 rooms made from plyboard. You were in the city hotzone so there was always something to do.

From a green perspective you use less power and create less waste. Its easier to build money up and you're close to everything. You don't clutter as much junk and furniture together either.
Much easier to do if you're single or don't have kids
City living will be heading in this direction unless you want to cull the worlds population.
The days of the mega mansion are over. Smart use of space is the future of city living.
Australians are pretty spoilt and greedy in a lot of areas. What we need and what we think we deserve are poles apart.

Most people my age (35) aren't interested in big houses, they want local amenities (cafes – for smashed avocados – restaurants, bars, arty stuff etc). I have lived in London and in New York, in both cities you do just fine living in small apartments. The ability to walk everywhere and a metro system means you don't really spend that much time at home anyway.

I do think we need some second tier cities. If America does one thing great, apart from endless urban sprawl, it's the number of small cities that have high paying jobs in diverse industries. In Australia if you're out of the capital cities there are few high paying jobs to lure professinals and consequently everyone tries to squeeze into a 10k radius of the capital CBDs.

 

[SirRumpole]

Most people my age (35) aren't interested in big houses, they want local amenities (cafes – for smashed avocados – restaurants, bars, arty stuff etc).

Do you have children ?

Trying to live with kids in a small space is going to get pretty wearing I reckon.

 

[McLovin]

Do you have children ?

Trying to live with kids in a small space is going to get pretty wearing I reckon.

I do not, but plenty of friends do and live in apartments or small terraces. But I do take your point, with kids it would be a bit harder. I grew up around where I live now (Woollahra) and while we had a pretty big house, I don't really remember spending much time playing at home as a kid. Every afternoon the neighbourhood kids would have a game of footy or cricket down at the little park or we'd be riding bikes. Having Centennial Park on your doorstep probably helped.

 

[SirRumpole]

I do not, but plenty of friends do and live in apartments or small terraces. But I do take your point, with kids it would be a bit harder. I grew up around where I live now (Woollahra) and while we had a pretty big house, I don't really remember spending much time playing at home as a kid. Every afternoon the neighbourhood kids would have a game of footy or cricket down at the little park or we'd be riding bikes. Having Centennial Park on your doorstep probably helped.

Yes, problem is that increasing housing density is taking away parks and making it more difficult to ride bikes on roads. Unless high density housing areas are planned with sufficient recreational facilities, we will be creating more urban ghettos.

 

[moXJO]

Yes, problem is that increasing housing density is taking away parks and making it more difficult to ride bikes on roads. Unless high density housing areas are planned with sufficient recreational facilities, we will be creating more urban ghettos.

I agree that cities need to be planned better. You need to allow communities to flourish rather than high density ghettos.
Right in CBDs would be fine, but I'd be less inclined to be building too far out. Well thought out spaces in good areas and restrictions anywhere other than CBDs for now.

 

[moXJO]

Most people my age (35) aren't interested in big houses, they want local amenities (cafes – for smashed avocados – restaurants, bars, arty stuff etc). I have lived in London and in New York, in both cities you do just fine living in small apartments. The ability to walk everywhere and a metro system means you don't really spend that much time at home anyway.

I do think we need some second tier cities. If America does one thing great, apart from endless urban sprawl, it's the number of small cities that have high paying jobs in diverse industries. In Australia if you're out of the capital cities there are few high paying jobs to lure professinals and consequently everyone tries to squeeze into a 10k radius of the capital CBDs.

Yeah at the end of the day its just a bed. Plenty to do in the city.

I agree with the second tier cities. I think Newcastle and Wollongong are moving in that direction both are bloody expensive now as well.

A lot comes down to poor planning and investment. Australia has a very "boom/bust" mentality. Build as much as they can to milk obscene amounts of money with no thought to planning . Or build nothing because there is no money in it. What the country actually needs doesn't get much interest.
Population is also a factor.

 

[McLovin]

Yes, problem is that increasing housing density is taking away parks and making it more difficult to ride bikes on roads. Unless high density housing areas are planned with sufficient recreational facilities, we will be creating more urban ghettos.

Around these parts all the talk is about ripping up golf courses to increase the availability of parkland. According to Clover Moore the duffers want a "modern 9 hole course". As a golfer I disagree. Thankfully she hasn't got her hands on the Centennial Park Trust.

The inner suburbs of global cities are going to be dense. That means that most people who want to live in inner Sydney or Melbourne are going to be living in small apartments or houses. I personally don't think it reduces quality of life (although when I see what's going on at Zetland I think they're probably pushing the limits of density) but perhaps because I've always lived in inner city suburbs I am used to it. For me, having to get in the car to get a litre of milk or go for a beer at the local is not where I'd want to be living.

 

[basilio]

Did anyone have a look at the pictures with the story? I suggest they offer a clearer idea of what living in a 6 foot x 3 foot x 5 foot space looks like when you have to have everything you need, use in there.
And there are enough children also living in these coffins.

It's not just a bed. It's their entire life. And these people don't have the resources to get out and about.

 

[moXJO]

Did anyone have a look at the pictures with the story? I suggest they offer a clearer idea of what living in a 6 foot x 3 foot x 5 foot space looks like when you have to have everything you need, use in there.
And there are enough children also living in these coffins.

It's not just a bed. It's their entire life. And these people don't have the resources to get out and about.

Yes.... its better than places in Sydney.

 

[McLovin]

Did anyone have a look at the pictures with the story? I suggest they offer a clearer idea of what living in a 6 foot x 3 foot x 5 foot space looks like when you have to have everything you need, use in there.
And there are enough children also living in these coffins.

It's not just a bed. It's their entire life. And these people don't have the resources to get out and about.

I think that's what real estate agents mean when they say "cosy".

 

[SirRumpole]

but perhaps because I've always lived in inner city suburbs I am used to it. For me, having to get in the car to get a litre of milk or go for a beer at the local is not where I'd want to be living.

I lived in Sydney for 30 years and moved out in '96. It was getting too crowded. Now live in rural NSW.

Peaceful but boring and culturally backward.

Swings and roundabouts...

 

[Logique]

Must admit, I'm curious about the new capsule hotel opening in George St, Sydney: http://www.thebyte.com.au/sydney-get-first-ever-capsule-hotel/

 

[mullokintyre]

I lived in Sydney for 30 years and moved out in '96. It was getting too crowded. Now live in rural NSW.

Peaceful but boring and culturally backward.

Culturally Backward - was that before or after you moved there @SirRumpole
Just askin.
Mick

 

[SirRumpole]

Culturally Backward - was that before or after you moved there @SirRumpole
Just askin.
Mick

Not very nice Mull.

Yes to can go to a pub, discuss footy and farming if that's what you want but otherwise the conversation is fairly limited.

 

[mullokintyre]

Not very nice Mull.

You gave me the opening, had to take it!

Yes to can go to a pub, discuss footy and farming if that's what you want but otherwise the conversation is fairly limited.

yeah, a bit like going into the waterside workers pub in inner Melbourne.
You cannot have a conversation unless the F-bomb is dropped at least twice per sentence.
mick

 

[mullokintyre]

I see the Greens still pushing for lots of social housing and freezing rents.

In 2022, Australia started around 200,000 dwellings were commenced.
I am assuming that these 1 million new houses are in addition to those already built, so if we built an extra 100,000 per year we still looking at ten years .
And with all the extra competition for tradies, one might assume costs would escalate somewhat, assuming of course you could get the tradies in the first place.
Assuming that the "we" he is talking about already has the land for housing, a million new homes , at around $300,000 for construction per home, thats a cool $300billion. I guess we could afford it if we did not spend money on those subs.
As for freezing rents for two years, that would be fine as long as we also freeze mortgage payments, landlord Insurance, Rates, maintenance costs, land tax, etc.
Mick