Depression

Just a brief update (thanks everyone for your comments).

1. The affected person is now receiving professional treatment. I don't know exactly what this involves, but he is in the hands of properly qualified people.

2. I wish to stress the point that whilst I pointed his family to this thread hoping to help them in some way, I most certainly haven't alerted the affected person to it. My aim is to try and assist the situation in any way I can, and my thinking is that hearing the experiences of others would be useful reassurance for family members. I'm not sure if I've actually helped or not, but that was certainly my intention.

I'm going to call his family over the weekend and see how it's going. As for work, the HR section doesn't know yet but I can't really avoid alerting them next week.

Spoke with the affected person on the phone a few hours ago and there has been a noticeable improvement.

It's hard to describe just how happy I am about this. It feels really strange but it is, well, the best news I've had in a very long time.

I still don't understand how it all happens. Down in a big way and now back up again. But if he's getting better then that's just, well, as I said it's the best thing I've heard in a long time.

Smurf1976 said:

I have contacted his family a short time ago. Apparently there has been a modest improvement but he will be seeing a professional tomorrow.

I have pointed family in the direction of this thread.

Now that I know a bit more about it, I'm thinking that some of the things which seemed "unusual" to me (in hindsight) may not be relevant but that some probably are. I mean, there's plenty of people who don't regularly save money and there's no law saying you have to. That one might reflect a personal bias on my part more than anything else since I've always been a saver by nature. But some of the others may be relevant as others have commented in following posts.

Let's hope for the best.

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Not being funny smurph, but maybe the guy has reached his level of incompetence.
Everyone tries to improve their position, then sometimes reach a position they find difficult to manage.
This then in turn brings on a state of panic as they are highly motivated and don't want to fail.
It is very hard to rewind the situation. I have seen it happen a few times, fortunatelly they came to terms with it and readjusted their lives.

Good to hear Smurf.

I do believe having a good support network (family and friends) would help a great deal in these situations, ontop of the professional side.

Just an update:

My daughter has now been seroquel free for 14 days. The doctor was interested in the research I had done and could see the sense in stopping the medication cold turkey (due to unacceptable side effects when attempting to taper off slowly) and treating the withdrawal side effects.

He gave her Periactin which is sedating antihistimine, mild anticholinergic, helps prevent headache, anti sweating and is anti nausea all of which have been known to be withdrawal effects of seroquel.

She suffered shocking headache around her forehead for several days - that is now easing. She has also had severe back pain, but she also had that while she was on seroquel. Her ankle has been playing up again - and that was diagnosed as pseudo gout as per a lab report and the cause was seroquel.

I think we are through the worst now, but my research tells me that time is the biggest factor in this and while many others have found the recovery time to be something akin to a roller coaster ride, it can take weeks/months to fully recover.

Glad to hear that she is making some progress and that you have some confidence in the care team. It is so important for the patient to have a proactive advocate isnt it!

Hi Sails

More than pleased to hear of the progress. You are working through a maze with much love and dedication.

Rick

lindsayf said:

Glad to hear that she is making some progress and that you have some confidence in the care team. It is so important for the patient to have a proactive advocate isnt it!

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Thanks for the kind words, Lindsayf...

I do think support is vital although I have read many accounts of seroquel withdrawal where they don't have help and have survived. Their strength and courage are truly inspirational.

Not all survive though. There is a forum out there on seroquel coma/death where many have expressed their desire to end it all. Sadly, one of the side effects of seroquel is suicide risk. I have slept with two phones by my bed for the last two weeks which, thankfully, has only been needed once during the first week of withdrawal. I made the decision to bring her next dose of antihistimines forward a little plus take a 5mg valium which was given for this type of situation. I recognised these symptoms of utter despair being a normal part of that stage of withdrawal - but it was severe. That put her to sleep and she slept well for the remainder of the night. Thankfully, valium has been kept under control, however, I believe it has also helped to spare her from serious and sometimes permanent neurological side effects from seroquel and it's withdrawal. Valium withdrawal will follow, however, that will be tapered very, very slowly.

Muschu said:

Hi Sails

More than pleased to hear of the progress. You are working through a maze with much love and dedication.

Rick

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Thanks Rick... Yes, a maze describes it perfectly. Each day and each new symptom has brought uncertaintity and the most anxious time was during that first week. I am finding I am now incredibly tired - I think it is the sense of relief that we are over that dreaded first week which certainly did present some challenges and a lot of physical pain for my daughter.

I still remain alert as it's early days yet and the Periactin antihistime needs to be slowly tapered off which will gradually force her own histimine and serotonin receptors to start kicking in again after nearly four years of being tranquilised. I suspect anticholinergic medication will be required for a bit longer as she has had some difficulty with tremors and a nasty scare with involuntary twitching of muscles which settled down with the addition of anticholinergic medication.

Yes, a maze it is. Very complex and yet the doctor read out of the screed on his screen (presumably from AstraZeneca) that gives about three sentences on seroquel withdrawal. I asked the doctor if AZ has actually done any trials on the best form of withdrawal and he didnt know. Surely withdrawal trials and advice should be a mandatory requirement before mind bending medications are let loose for off label use such as insomnia and anxiety.

Thankfully, her GP was sensible enough to realise that his little paragraph on withdrawal from AZ had little to do with the very real and unpleasant withdrawal symptoms being experienced by real people in the real world. He took note of my well prepared and summarised notes that I had gleaned from thousands of other people's experiences.

Sounds as though you're through the worst, Sails. Well done and best wishes for a full recovery.

Julia said:

Sounds as though you're through the worst, Sails. Well done and best wishes for a full recovery.

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Yes, thanks Julia, we are certainly hoping the worst is behind us. Those that have travelled this road before us and blogged their experience show that strange things can continue to happen for a few weeks/months after completely quitting. Painful and burning feet is the latest annoying factor that kept her awake last night. Hopefully it will pass as quickly as it came.

I just wanted to bring this thread back to life given what has happened recently with Robin Williams.

I think it's kinda sad that we, as a society and in general, and largely influenced by the media, only give attention to depression when someone famous dies. It's almost like everyone focuses on how sad it was that the person died, and how great of a person they were, but no one looks forward to ask how we can prevent/treat this, or look around us and wonder who amongst our friends have it.

I'm going to be honest and say I have it. Sometimes it comes out of nowhere, and for no reason I feel, to say the least, sad. But it's so much more than that. It's having negative thoughts all the time. It's having that feeling behind your eyeballs as if they're going to explode into tears for no apparent reason. It's like feeling all alone with nothing to live for even though you may have plenty of friends and a bright future.

My friends don't suspect a thing, but sometimes I wonder about how they'd react if I died - "we never knew, he always seemed so happy". I think a keen observer would pick it up if they closely watched what I did, but in reality, not too many people care. Everyone only comes forward when you die.

So I guess the point of me bringing this up is to ask two things of you:

1. Give serious thought to whether those around you may suffer from depression. It's easy to think "Bob? Nah, he's way too chirpy to have depression", but sometimes it's the ones we expect the least.

2. If you knew someone had depression, what would you do? If you were with Robin Williams shortly before he died and knew his mental state, what could you have done?

2. If you knew someone had depression, what would you do? If you were with Robin Williams shortly before he died and knew his mental state, what could you have done?

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Hard to say without knowing all the circumstances. Keep him talking and get him to a hospital ASAP. Or if there was some alcohol around keep pouring it into him until he falls over drunk and then get him to hospital.

I hope you are getting some help Tyler. The fact that you are posting here indicates that you can get your thoughts in order.

That doesn't apply to a lot of people with the same problem.

I hope you can work it out.

Tyler Durden said:

My friends don't suspect a thing, but sometimes I wonder about how they'd react if I died - "we never knew, he always seemed so happy". I think a keen observer would pick it up if they closely watched what I did, but in reality, not too many people care. Everyone only comes forward when you die.

So I guess the point of me bringing this up is to ask two things of you:

1. Give serious thought to whether those around you may suffer from depression. It's easy to think "Bob? Nah, he's way too chirpy to have depression", but sometimes it's the ones we expect the least.

2. If you knew someone had depression, what would you do? If you were with Robin Williams shortly before he died and knew his mental state, what could you have done?

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Tyler I think we all go through these periods, I remember a traumatic period in my life, when I didn't have a number 2's for two weeks. Trust me it wasn't a nice experience.

What I have learnt over my life is, most of the depression is brought on by a feeling of failure.
Most of the feeling of failure is applied from outside sources.
We live in a materialistic time, where worth is measured by examples of material ownership. It has been a great capitalist and advertising success.

The best way I found to not feel overwhelmed, was to set my own goals, set them realistically and achievable.
After a time, you find you are exceeding them.
Always keep your self esteem, that is really important. I don't mean be arrogant, but don't let people put you down.

With regards Robin Williams, who knows his position?
At the end everyone has a choice, he made his.

Tyler Durden said:

... what could you have done?

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Not the kind of thing one blabs about,
but I sometimes drop it in conversation.
I am so surprised at the positive responses.
From "Me too." to "So-and-so has it."

My uncle had it, I never knew just what to do.
I'd pop my head around the door post.
I'd ask how he was?

What was he watching?

Wait for a response ...





Now, I have been depressed too.
Well, it is magic for me.
So I believe that maybe it was magic for him too.

Tyler, one of the best posts I've ever read on this forum. Thank you.

You're so right about the public masks that so many of us present to even those closest to us.
Part of it is, I suspect, a version of the philosophy of 'fake it till you make it', something that really does work for someone not totally overcome by an overwhelming sense of hopelessness.

Having lost two people I loved to suicide, and two friends also, it took some time and much listening to understand the desperation that finally drove them to end their lives. When you discover them dead there's no escape from the thought "couldn't I have done more to help?"

One of the confusing aspects of depression and suicide is that shortly before someone kills themselves, they appear almost happy: calm, interested in you rather than themselves. The answer a psychologist offered me for this was that they have finally made up their mind to end their lives, have made a plan, and are experiencing a sense of relief that there will be a clear end to their suffering.

Tyler, I don't know what to say in answer to how you're feeling. Everyone responds differently to sadness.
You're an intelligent and aware individual and you'll be aware of 'helping' options. Whether they are useful or not I don't know. Just one observation I'd like to make is that of the whole forum you have probably come up with more interesting and thoughtful thread starters than most of us put together, something I really appreciate.

I so hope you can bring that same thoughtfulness and insight to your own situation. I know how much easier that is to say than to do. One further thought: given the state of our world and the more localised atmosphere of aggression and anger, it's possible that a sense of sadness and depression is simply realistic.

I ask anyone thinking of jumping on me for offering this as an alternative to seeking professional help to just not do it. Imo there are times when sadness and depression is an entirely rational state of mind.

I don't know anyone who has disclosed to me that they have depression, so I am not someone that can offer advice. However, when reading about the death of Robin Williams a few days back, I came across this letter from Stephen Fry to a lady with depression and who had asked him for help. It seems to me that it could be of help to many sufferers.

http://www.lettersofnote.com/2009/10/it-will-be-sunny-one-day.html

Tyler Durden said:

I just wanted to bring this thread back to life given what has happened recently with Robin Williams.

I think it's kinda sad that we, as a society and in general, and largely influenced by the media, only give attention to depression when someone famous dies. It's almost like everyone focuses on how sad it was that the person died, and how great of a person they were, but no one looks forward to ask how we can prevent/treat this, or look around us and wonder who amongst our friends have it.

I'm going to be honest and say I have it. Sometimes it comes out of nowhere, and for no reason I feel, to say the least, sad. But it's so much more than that. It's having negative thoughts all the time. It's having that feeling behind your eyeballs as if they're going to explode into tears for no apparent reason. It's like feeling all alone with nothing to live for even though you may have plenty of friends and a bright future.

My friends don't suspect a thing, but sometimes I wonder about how they'd react if I died - "we never knew, he always seemed so happy". I think a keen observer would pick it up if they closely watched what I did, but in reality, not too many people care. Everyone only comes forward when you die.

So I guess the point of me bringing this up is to ask two things of you:

1. Give serious thought to whether those around you may suffer from depression. It's easy to think "Bob? Nah, he's way too chirpy to have depression", but sometimes it's the ones we expect the least.

2. If you knew someone had depression, what would you do? If you were with Robin Williams shortly before he died and knew his mental state, what could you have done?

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I suffer from it, a good curative for me was living in Cambodia for a year and volunteering because now what brings me out of it is guilt & hopefully that will continue to work for me.

I came across this some time ago and it resonated with me as well, in reference to the above.

http://youtu.be/mUQuaTE-x8o

Unfortunately, what works for one often doesn't work for another. It does seem endemic in the developed world, so while I do understand the bit about a chemical imbalance, I still think there is a link to afluenza.

As a someone who has suffered depressive episodes in the past I will share what I have found. This is what works for me and and by no means is the full solution to the problem.

Get it diagnosed by a professional. Speak to a psychologist and if required a psychiatrist.

Use the meds if they prescribe them. They help you get back on track and you can work out your non meds strategy far better than when in a depressive state.

Get a non meds strategy to overcome the depression. This is often doing one positive thing each day which makes you feel better about yourself.

Work out what your triggers are. I had my first diagnosed depression about 25 years ago. I realised then that I had been through this before. Now I know when I am heading that way and put my diversion strategy in place.

Talk to professionals, your friends will soon tire of hearing you talk. True friends will ask you and will engage in a meaningful conversation with you.

Never feel that you are alone. There is always someone who will help you.

I still have my ups and downs but the lows are not as low and are of shorter duration. I was only on the meds for that first diagnosed episode and not since then. They do help, but they do have side effects and you have to be on them for a while and then you have to get off them, this takes time.

A few months ago I picked up a new client a dressage rider whose husband hed her horses for me as I worked on them. We had a good rapport and chatted about all sorts of stuff. He was Submariner in the navy and regaled me of amazing stories of his experiences under the waves.

Eventually about 4 weeks ago, he shared with me that he was actually suffering PTSD (**** goes on down there), depression and an alchoholic in remission. It was actually the first time anyone shared any such thing and he explained it was part of his therapy, to share his condition, so long as he trusted the person.

I was actually quite honoured as he is someone I have grown to highly respect over the months.

Anyway during the conversation he looked at me straight in the eye and said "I reckon I can tell a depressive, no matter how bright and happy they seem. After a few moments the conversation carried on...

Something about how he said that, played on my mind. Did he see something in me? Nah I thought, I'm not depressed.

I thought about it for a while. I thought clinical depression was extremely debilitating, like Brad has detailed in starting this thread... and certainly confirmed by others as this thread has progressed.

Yet, for the most part, I have been living a pretty joyless existence for some years now. Oh sure, I can smile, share a joke, fake a laugh, people think I'm a jolly good fellow, except it was fake. To avoid being alone with my thoughts, I'd argue and read crap on the interwebs, drink too much... anything but just be alone with me. And then there are the social phobias, the telephone is an object of fear in my world, amongst other things.

My friends words still playing on my mind, secretly, I booked in to see a psych wanting only one question answered - How does one know if they are depressed or just experiencing sadness that everone deals with from time to time. at the end of the session he diagnosed depression and that it had been going on for years... and I had been sweeping it under the carpet the whole time.

Intellectually I have learned to accept the reality of depression as a condition that exists, is not a cop out and can strike anyone, but still subconsciously labouring under the old school misconception that its a weakness; something that somebody else gets, but not me. I was still in denial.

I did tell my wife however (my amazing long suffering wife), expecting her to confirm my denial. Instead, she said " I knew it!!" and helped me understand what she had been seeing for years.

Finally I admitted it to myself. That was hard and painful.

So this is my coming out of the closet, not for sympathy or anything like that, but part of the process of admitting it, owning it and doing something about it.

It is also a precurser as an apology to all those I've sleighted here. I realize now that, though I believe in my point (whatever it is), the bickering was all a subterfuge to hide behind. So... sorry.

I haven't worked out how to get around this yet, or what form of professional help Ill seek but thanks to those in this thread who've shared their experiences and advice.

I haven't worked out how to get around this yet, or what form of professional help Ill seek but thanks to those in this thread who've shared their experiences and advice.

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That is the question isn't it ? When do you get help ?

If anyone has a good answer to this question I'd like to know.

I have some of the same feelings as Wayne but I find it useful to have a hobby and work towards a target. It keeps the mind active and interested and away from darker thoughts.

Best of luck Wayne.