Declaring yourself BANKRUPT!!!

[waza1960]

• If you feel the only avenue is Bankruptcy and prepared to face the fall out i.e. have to tell them you are going overseas, then do it. Today it is no biggy going Bankrupt as long as you tell them the truth and update any changes. For example if you get a new job paying over the $37K odd they will expect take 50% of anything over that. And these days after discharge there are leading institutions that will lend to you for housing etc.
  
• Also, the Trustee at ITSA will usually only look into cases where they are told information that is conflicting, or if a lodgment looks strange, i.e. The Bankrupt went out and borrowed many debts and then walks in to go Bankrupt. This could be fraud and if proven could end up costly. They do not have the man power to investigate every case and only major debt or suspicions will be looked at.
  
• Bankruptcies are not the end of life, but always learn from your mistakes and don’t tell the world when you do it. I have been bankrupt previously due to bad investments and I was ill and struggled from the decision of bankruptcy, but after doing it I felt the world lift off my shoulders and I have survived. Never heard a word from ITSA and did not effect my life but for the positive. Don’t take the negativity on board and be happy and remember there will always be people who will judge because they think they are high and mighty.

Agree totally its a pity that you have to have personal experience of Bankrupcy to give an accurate perception though

 

[waza1960]

• Um, Which is it, tell them you are going overseas or tell the truth!

Both if you go overseas you must tell them.If you declare bankrupcy then you must tell the truth

• I notice that the major increase is in Part X Debt Agreements at the moment through this financial crisis. That is what ITSA is reporting anyway (although Bankrupty is still going up, but not by as much). Is there a message in that??

Hopefully its a positive for human nature meaning that in a Part 10 you are agreeing to pay back a percentage of the debt rather than full bankrupcy.

• you earn 55k I thought you were hard up. Save yourself the headache and pay the loan

Upon reflection I am inclined to agree if you have only a few years to clear the debt then I think that is the right thing to do,in my case there was simply no choice

 

[Julia]

I agree, earning an all right wage, will have the ability to pay the loan off in 3-5 years and still have a life. I really don't see what the problem is besides trying to get out of it with no responsibility.

Just pay it off and get on with your life.

I agree. Why shouldn't you take responsibility for your previous decision?
That's what most people have to do.

Consider how you will feel in a couple of decades time:
on the one hand if you do the right thing, you will know you've accepted the consequences of your own choice and can feel rightly proud of that,
whereas on the other you may always have a sense of shame at having run away from something you could easily have managed.

You have a job for goodness sake. Just talk to the bank and sort out terms for repayment that you can manage.

 

[Tink]

I notice that the major increase is in Part X Debt Agreements at the moment through this financial crisis. That is what ITSA is reporting anyway (although Bankrupty is still going up, but not by as much). Is there a message in that??

Yep, too many people taking on debts they cant afford..

Banks have been giving out money too easily, namingly the Commonwealth Bank it seems..

but then if you had to look at it on the other side, could be alot have lost their jobs

 

[tech/a]

namingly the Commonwealth Bank it seems..

I had one of their Corporate business managers in the office the other day.
Over a simple lunch we were discussing severe cashflow problems.
In Civil works we have massive projects all requiring forward material purchases and wage payments 3 mths before progress claims begin flowing.
Then of course we have retention of 5% which is ALL profit $$.

So the Creditor debtor hole never fills and the more commercial work you hold on your books the more impossible it is to operate.

Well.
After 60 mins of chatting and pouring over spreadsheets,I have never seen a banker pick up his mobile and have the funds available by the time he left.

Which bank!

 

[wayno76]

Mate, throw yourself into construction. There's big things happening up here in gladstone. An unskilled labourer is earning 130k you could easily pay that debt off in 18mts or less if you wanted. 10hr days 9 day fortnight. money for jam!

 

[moXJO]

Mate, throw yourself into construction. There's big things happening up here in gladstone. An unskilled labourer is earning 130k you could easily pay that debt off in 18mts or less if you wanted. 10hr days 9 day fortnight. money for jam!

Sounds interesting what kind of construction is going on up there, is it in the mines?

 

[Julia]

This very good Radio National "Australia Talks" programme aired yesterday on Bankruptcy.
Guests include Professor Ian Ramsay.

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/australiatalks/stories/2009/2667343.htm

 

[metric]

i know a bloke that has purposely run up a huge credit card bill with the idea of going bankrupt.

a few months ago he and his wife sold a house that was in her name..but he paid for. they just bought another house, in her name, and heused the credit card to make many improvements to the home. they went on an overseas trip using the credit cards, and done lots of shopping for luxuries etc.

so now hes maxed out all his cards. and is declaring bankruptcy. he recently asked me if he will get in trouble from itsa for what hes done. i said i was the wrong bloke to ask. he said he wants to protect his wifes house.....and will they trace his CC purchaces and link it to her house, thereby making a link to his bankruptcy and then siezing the property to sell for the benefit of creditiors? i said i dont know, go and get some legal advice.

in my opinion, but i wouldnt tell him, itsa will have a good look, make the link, take the house, and he'll be lucky if he doesnt get jail.

but then, what do i know? lots of people seem to be able to rort the process....

 

[tech/a]

Sounds interesting what kind of construction is going on up there, is it in the mines?

The $130k or the Construction Work?
For $130k as a labourer it wont be domestic landscaping or local brickies labourer.
It will be the sort of labouring work you need to pay $130k a year to interest people to apply.
Mind you most of these positions turn out to be $80k when you actually look into it and the "Chinese" whisper has done its job.

 

[Tink]

i know a bloke that has purposely run up a huge credit card bill with the idea of going bankrupt.

.

..and they are the very people that cry out -- "Australia is becoming a Nanny State' -- but then they want to be Nannyed

 

[wayno76]

Sounds interesting what kind of construction is going on up there, is it in the mines?

Theres comalco alumina refinery stage 2 ramping up again after rio down graded its workforce $4b dollar project 18mts to go. Boyne smelter about 18mts work approx. Theres about 4 LNG plants all to be built over the next five Years starting sometime next year approx $15b. Theres boulder steel just been announced it'll hopefully start within 2 yrs $2.2b plus many more big projects in the pipeline.

 

[wayno76]

The $130k or the Construction Work?
For $130k as a labourer it wont be domestic landscaping or local brickies labourer.
It will be the sort of labouring work you need to pay $130k a year to interest people to apply.
Mind you most of these positions turn out to be $80k when you actually look into it and the "Chinese" whisper has done its job.

The works a hell of a lot easier than shoveling dirt or stacking bricks thats for sure.

I was working out at comalco as a pressure welder and i was on $150k i know for sure the labourers or trades assistant as they call them were on somewhere between $120-$130k. that will go up as there is a major labor shortage and its going to get a lot worse.

The hardest part of the work was the boredom plenty of standing around doing FA.

 

[moXJO]

The $130k or the Construction Work?
For $130k as a labourer it wont be domestic landscaping or local brickies labourer.
It will be the sort of labouring work you need to pay $130k a year to interest people to apply.
Mind you most of these positions turn out to be $80k when you actually look into it and the "Chinese" whisper has done its job.

The construction work, I don't know if I could go back on wages. I've put up a few sheds for the mines before (contract work) and it was good money.

 

[Prospector]

i know a bloke that has purposely run up a huge credit card bill with the idea of going bankrupt.

a few months ago he and his wife sold a house that was in her name..but he paid for. . he recently asked me if he will get in trouble from itsa for what hes done. ....

I hope so.

 

[Sunder]

i know a bloke that has purposely run up a huge credit card bill with the idea of going bankrupt.

in my opinion, but i wouldnt tell him, itsa will have a good look, make the link, take the house, and he'll be lucky if he doesnt get jail.

but then, what do i know? lots of people seem to be able to rort the process....

I think I read somewhere, that there is a provision under the law, that for up to two years prior to the bankruptcy declaration, if the person lived what was considered an extravagant lifestyle, disposed of any property for less than market value, or engaged in gambling or highly speculative activities, and they knew, or should have known they were heading towards bankruptcy, they could be criminally prosecuted.

Proving it is another matter entirely though...

The thing is, while there are loopholes to get rorts through, if it was "that easy", trust me, we wouldn't have armed robberies, crooks would just screw the bank over legally.

Some might slip through by leaving immaculate paper trails, but enough would get caught to deter the majority from doing it.

 

[waza1960]

• This very good Radio National "Australia Talks" programme aired yesterday on Bankruptcy.
• Guests include Professor Ian Ramsay.
  
• http://www.abc.net.au/rn/australiata...09/2667343.htm

• Thanks for the link Julia it was interesting.Broadens ones moral perspective though doesn't it.

The rich hiding behind Trusts,Trustees' excessive fees,Creditors waiting for the debt to reach the threshold then Bankrupting.

 

[bullish]

I'm sorry I can't give advice on the subject... but I was wondering if anyone knows if a bankrupt can trade shares/futures etc and forex? Not to hold them for long periods but in a day trader and swing trading sense?

 

[Vicki]

but I was wondering if anyone knows if a bankrupt can trade shares/futures etc and forex? Not to hold them for long periods but in a day trader and swing trading sense?

Hi Bullish,
You'd have to check with i.t.s.a. [insolvancy trust services Australia].
They may inform you that whilst you are an 'undischarged bankrupt', for I think 3yrs.
That your assetts have to be declared, including equity in anything you own, & as such may be required to contribute some or all of this 'money' towards your creditors.

As for trading?
Well I believe there is a threshold for what you can earn, depending on your situation.
typically 40-60k I think?

Personally, I'd save yourself the hassle of laying awake at night & let someone else trade for you, on your behalf...maybe??

Again, you would have to seek proffessional advice, as the above could/would be considered 'breeching' the laws?

Hope this helps.

Vicki

 

[xenith69]

....