Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Day Trading Futures

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nomore4s said:
:confused: Trading the real market is expensive?

SPI is $25 per tick with each contract costing $5 each way = $10

Your CFD is $20 per tick but it costs you the spread and you think the real market is expensive:banghead:




:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I don't believe that level of sarcasm was warranted however I will accept that you did not understand what I meant - which was the initial cost of taking the trade in terms of how much you had to put up.

Yes indeed there is a spread to deal with but if I trade 100 CFD's it only costs me an initial fraction of your 1 x $25 points and we end up with the same amount of win or loss at the end.

I like to trade in $100 per point move so I would need 4 contracts to achieve that and that would be very expensive - possibly around $17,500 depending on the provider and the SPI price at the time in addition to the commission which I agree is miniscule compared with the spread especially at night.

I took my CFD trade which I mentioned in another post at 3974.50 with my provider and it is now trading at around 4025 which gives me a 51 point gain - $5,100 which I am very happy with.

I hope to have clarified my position and as I said - perhaps I didn't make myself clear enough.


:rolleyes:
 
TECM said:
I don't believe that level of sarcasm was warranted however I will accept that you did not understand what I meant - which was the initial cost of taking the trade in terms of how much you had to put up.

Yes indeed there is a spread to deal with but if I trade 100 CFD's it only costs me an initial fraction of your 1 x $25 points and we end up with the same amount of win or loss at the end.

I like to trade in $100 per point move so I would need 4 contracts to achieve that and that would be very expensive - possibly around $17,500 depending on the provider and the SPI price at the time in addition to the commission which I agree is miniscule compared with the spread especially at night.

I took my CFD trade which I mentioned in another post at 3974.50 with my provider and it is now trading at around 4025 which gives me a 51 point gain - $5,100 which I am very happy with.

I hope to have clarified my position and as I said - perhaps I didn't make myself clear enough.


:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

If you trade $100 per point and are successful your trading will come under the notice of your CFD provider. I speak from experience.
If you are trading equivalent of 4 contracts I would suggest trading futures for transparency and costs.
 
TECM said:
I don't believe that level of sarcasm was warranted however I will accept that you did not understand what I meant - which was the initial cost of taking the trade in terms of how much you had to put up.

Yes indeed there is a spread to deal with but if I trade 100 CFD's it only costs me an initial fraction of your 1 x $25 points and we end up with the same amount of win or loss at the end.

I like to trade in $100 per point move so I would need 4 contracts to achieve that and that would be very expensive - possibly around $17,500 depending on the provider and the SPI price at the time in addition to the commission which I agree is miniscule compared with the spread especially at night.

I took my CFD trade which I mentioned in another post at 3974.50 with my provider and it is now trading at around 4025 which gives me a 51 point gain - $5,100 which I am very happy with.

I hope to have clarified my position and as I said - perhaps I didn't make myself clear enough.


:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

The cost of CFDs are significantly higher if you trade very short term and take very small chucks out of each move. E.g. Your CFD provider is quoting 4000/4001, but on the real SPI I can put in a bid at 4000 wait for it to be hit, and put a limit sell at 4002 and take 2 ticks. Yet your CFD provider is only quoting 4001/4002 and you would have made 0pts profit. For you to earn 2 ticks the market needs to move 4 positions to 4003/4004. Multiply this a few times and that's the expense of CFD index products.

If you are taking 50pts out of each move then the relative cost is not as dramatic.

BTW...If you are not able to put up the margin for 4 SPI contracts then $100/tick is probably too large for you.
 
skc said:
BTW...If you are not able to put up the margin for 4 SPI contracts then $100/tick is probably too large for you.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Trading the real market is expensive because you have to put up more margin, WTF?

That doesn't make it more expensive, it doesn't actually cost you anything:banghead:, just means you have to have more money in your account, which if trading $100 a tick is probably a good idea.
 
Alpha_Bet said:
If you trade $100 per point and are successful your trading will come under the notice of your CFD provider. I speak from experience.
If you are trading equivalent of 4 contracts I would suggest trading futures for transparency and costs.
Click to expand...

EXACTLY - and that is the reason why when a price is given at a particular time, and so many are trading different charts with different methodology and different instruments on different platforms, you look at the time, the price of your instrument, your trading stragegy and trade accordingly.

If everyone was jumping in on the same provider at exactly the same time and at exactly the same price then there would be no market in effect.

There are numerous platforms, instruments and strategies to trade based on a variety of parameters.

Anyway it matters little to me. It can come under the notice of any CFD provider but people enter and exit at different time frames and prices according to their risk tolerence, trading time frame and methodology.

I'm happy still to be in a trade with now around 80 points in profit. I can either sit up all night and watch or just set a trailing stop and go to bed and the latter is my preference.

Not every trade is a win naturally but a 2828 point gain on the DOW in 3 months is not shabby if that is what you trade. Go do the Math on that one - no matter what instrument you trade based on the movement of the DOW.

More people get it wrong than right and that is how these guys stay in business. The losers far outweigh the winners. It is like going to the Casino. - Yep they do boast that 80% win - but what is the ratio? If 80% win $20 and 20% lose $100k well 80% still won didn't they. Did you ever see a Casino go broke???

Anyway - whatever.

I decided to post because I loved the transparency and honesty of Trader Girl and wanted to see how and what she and other people traded. I loved TG's style enormously. She has her rules and her strategy and she sticks to it no matter what detrimental comment is thrown at her.

Any plan followed faithfully is better than no plan at all and that is what TG sticks to and so do I.

I didn't spend 8 years developing my trading strategy to not trade it faithfully but having said that I am always open to suggestion at to what other methods there are of trading the same plan whether it be via CFD providers, brokers, options, derivatives, et al. It is only by having an enquiring open mind that we learn.

Go TG.
 
Joe Blow said:
Folks, please ensure there are no stray quote tags in your posts and that you are using the quote tags correctly. I have hads to correct a few posts in this thread so those reading can follow it without tearing their hair out.

For those who have no idea what quote tags are, please see this thread: https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2737
Click to expand...

Dear Administrator,

I believe this to be my fault. What started out as a question has turned into a debate about cfd's 1 x $100 per point -v- 1 x $25 per point which is exactly the same outcome if the latter is x by 4. The only debate boils down to the amount of capital to be outlayed.

Debate was certainly not my intent. I'm happy to make secure my $9500 profit, set a trailing stop and go to bed with only a small amount of capital outlayed.

If requested specifically I won't post further.

In fact, given the flack I've received in recent posts it seems rather pointless to post further because I'm not receiving any real input into trading platforms or strategies which I sought with a view to improving trading results for many who are struggling.
 
Alpha_Bet said:
If you trade $100 per point and are successful your trading will come under the notice of your CFD provider. I speak from experience.
If you are trading equivalent of 4 contracts I would suggest trading futures for transparency and costs.
Click to expand...

I got kicked out by 2 CFD providers... they are like badges of honour :p:

TECM said:
EXACTLY - and that is the reason why when a price is given at a particular time, and so many are trading different charts with different methodology and different instruments on different platforms, you look at the time, the price of your instrument, your trading stragegy and trade accordingly.

If everyone was jumping in on the same provider at exactly the same time and at exactly the same price then there would be no market in effect.

There are numerous platforms, instruments and strategies to trade based on a variety of parameters.

Anyway it matters little to me. It can come under the notice of any CFD provider but people enter and exit at different time frames and prices according to their risk tolerence, trading time frame and methodology.
Click to expand...

What on earth are you talking about here?

TECM said:
Not every trade is a win naturally but a 2828 point gain on the DOW in 3 months is not shabby if that is what you trade. Go do the Math on that one - no matter what instrument you trade based on the movement of the DOW.
Click to expand...

How many $ / pt you trade on the DOW? $50 sounds about right since you trade $100/pt on the XJO. So you've made $141.4k in the last 3 months? Nice work.

Not to mention the 626 pts you picked up in the SPI. Another $62.6k.

Total profit for 3 months = $204k. And you can't afford the margin for 4 SPI contracts :banghead: :banghead:

TECM said:
I decided to post because I loved the transparency and honesty of Trader Girl and wanted to see how and what she and other people traded. I loved TG's style enormously. She has her rules and her strategy and she sticks to it no matter what detrimental comment is thrown at her.

Any plan followed faithfully is better than no plan at all and that is what TG sticks to and so do I.

I didn't spend 8 years developing my trading strategy to not trade it faithfully but having said that I am always open to suggestion at to what other methods there are of trading the same plan whether it be via CFD providers, brokers, options, derivatives, et al. It is only by having an enquiring open mind that we learn.

Go TG.
Click to expand...

I thought you decided to post so you can sell your "EC Method". Yes. It's very EC for you to sit back and collect $100 subscription a month from 400 subscribers (if there are 400 idiots out there and there probably are).

You are sending idiots to trade CFDs with minimal margin with an alert that is not even a system...from your link.

When an alert is received it indicates a price but that is not necessarily the entry or exit price. It is merely the price the system calculates as a price for a potential trend change.

It then becomes the responsibility of the subscriber to use whatever trading time frame they feel most comfortable with to establish their entry or exit point. There are instances we have encountered where, despite the alert, by using basic technical analysis skills we have decided not to enter the trade but to wait for additional confirmation.

When in doubt - stay out. When trading - a stop loss is your best friend.

We make it perfectly clear that this is merely an alert - not an entry or exit price or signal in that you do not have to enter or exit at the specified price. It is merely a guide.
Click to expand...

BTW kudos to you for being at least honest enough to say that you don't have an AFS licence.

There you go... best parts of your website highlighted here for you.

Now would the idiots please line up to the right.
 
TECM said:
Dear Administrator,

I believe this to be my fault. What started out as a question has turned into a debate about cfd's 1 x $100 per point -v- 1 x $25 per point which is exactly the same outcome if the latter is x by 4. The only debate boils down to the amount of capital to be outlayed.

Debate was certainly not my intent. I'm happy to make secure my $9500 profit, set a trailing stop and go to bed with only a small amount of capital outlayed.

If requested specifically I won't post further.

In fact, given the flack I've received in recent posts it seems rather pointless to post further because I'm not receiving any real input into trading platforms or strategies which I sought with a view to improving trading results for many who are struggling.
Click to expand...

Debate is part and parcel of forums. So is a bit of flack for that matter, as long as it doesn't get out of hand.

If the current debate is going to take this thread off topic then it might be worth starting a new thread to discuss it in more detail.
 
No-one specifically answered my queries but it's obvious I can't trade the SPI as I don't have enough cash. I can't imagine trading $100 a tick, ever. But CFD's allow me to do exactly what Trader Girl is doing but on a much smaller scale. And I have often gone counter to the trend with quick trades as she is doing and been profitable for the day.

Interested to know at what point CMC would be concerned about my trading size and try to affect my activity if that's really what they do?
Would it be about 50 contracts and would it be if you were also scalping rather than taking a position?
 
Trader Girl said:
And WayneL was accusing me of trying
to sell and spam on this forum.

LMFTO....
Click to expand...

Hope you don't include me there TG, just trying to get some answers. Couldn't understand where you were entering and exiting as the prices didn't match with the ones I was looking at. But I'm guessing that the SPI is a few points different to the Aus200.
 
TECM said:
Dear Administrator,

I believe this to be my fault. What started out as a question has turned into a debate about cfd's 1 x $100 per point -v- 1 x $25 per point which is exactly the same outcome if the latter is x by 4. The only debate boils down to the amount of capital to be outlayed.


In fact, given the flack I've received in recent posts it seems rather pointless to post further because I'm not receiving any real input into trading platforms or strategies which I sought with a view to improving trading results for many who are struggling.
Click to expand...

You have more faith in Market Maker synthetic models than I do.

Hope it keeps working for you.
 

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