Day traders ONLY - a continuing study

[Bobby]

Soultrader,

Thank you for the example !

Regards Bob.

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

soultrader

First off, none of your charts can be seen [not by myself anyway]
Second off, with daytrading, or any short-term analysis, or any trades really, I am not remotely interested in HINDSIGHT analysis, strange how it always seems to verify previous assertions.

I am interested only in live trades, done, well you know, live.
Anything other than live is just so much bs.

Either trade it live, or, stop wasting my time.

jog on
d998

Duc,

Surely some hindsight analysis is ok for an explanation. It's not like we are competing to be super traders by only giving live everything.

 

[Bobby]

SoulTrader,

That example with Tick as got to me ~ scarry

Your preference of seeing a Trin of 1.9 -2.0 before you short~ Wow thats Big bears , can see your reasoning for the gap com'ing.

Bob.

 

[soultrader]

SoulTrader,

That example with Tick as got to me ~ scarry

Your preference of seeing a Trin of 1.9 -2.0 before you short~ Wow thats Big bears , can see your reasoning for the gap com'ing.

Bob.

Bobby,

It's long not short. The idea behind it is that everyone is short so you go long at the overnight session. A very contrary strategy.

 

[Bobby]

Bobby,

It's long not short. The idea behind it is that everyone is short so you go long at the overnight session. A very contrary strategy.

Hi Soultrader,

I think there is a misunderstanding on when to go short or long , was following your trading plan of never holding overnight.

Not a inverted position

Cheers Bob.

 

[Bobby]

I had little success day trading stocks. I wasnt losing money but I wasnt finding success. I was still a rookie trader when I started playing with stocks and I spent a good amount of time scanning stocks. I was also severly distracted by Level 2 market maker games.
.

Soultrader,

If you were to trade the ASX again with your knowledge now, what hints would you give to Aussie day trader please ?

Cheers

 

[soultrader]

Hi Soultrader,

I think there is a misunderstanding on when to go short or long , was following your trading plan of never holding overnight.

Not a inverted position

Cheers Bob.

Good point Bobby. But whenever I see TRIN extremes, I just have to hold overnight. I exit at premarket so Im only holding for several hours. But I guess this would be the only exception

 

[soultrader]

Soultrader,

If you were to trade the ASX again with your knowledge now, what hints would you give to Aussie day trader please ?

Cheers

I come from a poker backgroun so it has helped me tremendously in trading. I dont want you to take this as a legitimate advice but I'll tell you what has worked for me.

Soul searching I really dug deep into my own psychology and compared it with what I was doing right in poker and applied it to my trading. I realized that in poker (I play tournaments only) I will wait for other players to make mistakes. Its a game of patience and knowing when to push hard. I took this concept to trading and realized that a few high probability setups will earn you a decent living.

So I really worked hard to develop setups based on my trading style. So I focus on setups only. I think its very important you find your trading style... whether its a revised version of other's ppl's methodology or something you worked hard to create. You need to find something you feel absolutely comfortable with.

Secondly, once you find your style of trading.. become an expert in it. Whether you are pivot based, fibs based, market profile, or indicator based.... be the best trader you can be using that methodology. Find an edge in your trading.

Third, for starters specialize. Understand your own psychology and find a market you feel right for you. You might have the trader quality in you but you might be trading the wrong market. Understand the personality of the market. Specialize, specialize, specialize. Be the expert trader in the certain market.

Fourth, experience. Experience is the only teacher in this game. All the books you read arent going to help you without experience. Education is definitely important. I initially read over 100 trading books before I started trading. And guess what? I lost money my first year.

I wont even get into risk tolerance or money management.. im sure youve heard this over and over.

 

[Bobby]

I come from a poker backgroun so it has helped me tremendously in trading. I dont want you to take this as a legitimate advice but I'll tell you what has worked for me.

Soul searching I really dug deep into my own psychology and compared it with what I was doing right in poker and applied it to my trading. I realized that in poker (I play tournaments only) I will wait for other players to make mistakes. Its a game of patience and knowing when to push hard. I took this concept to trading and realized that a few high probability setups will earn you a decent living.

So I really worked hard to develop setups based on my trading style. So I focus on setups only. I think its very important you find your trading style... whether its a revised version of other's ppl's methodology or something you worked hard to create. You need to find something you feel absolutely comfortable with.

Secondly, once you find your style of trading.. become an expert in it. Whether you are pivot based, fibs based, market profile, or indicator based.... be the best trader you can be using that methodology. Find an edge in your trading.

Third, for starters specialize. Understand your own psychology and find a market you feel right for you. You might have the trader quality in you but you might be trading the wrong market. Understand the personality of the market. Specialize, specialize, specialize. Be the expert trader in the certain market.

Fourth, experience. Experience is the only teacher in this game. All the books you read arent going to help you without experience. Education is definitely important. I initially read over 100 trading books before I started trading. And guess what? I lost money my first year.

I wont even get into risk tolerance or money management.. im sure youve heard this over and over.

Thank you James,

I do need to be a specialist in one area

That was a top post !
Bob.

 

[ducati916]

Hi Duc

If my memory serves me right you used to make around $3,000.00 a week daytrading.
What were the reasons you stopped daytrading?

cheers

Actually more like $3000+/day...............but that of course was if it was a profitable day.

Over 10 months, all trades posted live, I returned 81% unleveraged or 324% leveraged. My success rate was 50/50, winning trades on aggregate returned 1.5% and losing trades 0.5%

Why did I stop?
Because I hit a psychological barrier with the amount of money.
At the maximum, I traded 40 NQ contracts at $10/tick each tick +/-$400
This was seriously stressful, and I simply burned out.

soultrader

I also find it hard to discuss any intraday topic to someone who doesnt even day trade. So, yes I am wasting my time and yours. Let's talk again when you are actually day trading.
__________________

Excuses.

I have said on this thread, I am willing to daytrade live, anytime.
I have no trouble actually trading live rather than just talking about historical charts in HINDSIGHT.

This I find time and again is the classic get out, post a bunch of hindsight trades, indicate in hindsight where you made great decisions, and give it large to daytrader wannabe's, who are actively seeking confirmation of their inherent bias that daytrading is glamourous, profitable, pseudo-scientific relying on *market internals* indicators etc.

They are all 50/50
See how you already contradict yourself;

2. TRIN fades? How do you possibly fade a TRIN extreme? I have never heard of anyone fading TRIN's. The trend of the TRIN is the most important. TRIN breakouts from a range is a powerful strategy.

There are a few strategies based on fading TRIN extremes. But this is not common. For example if the TRIN closes at extreme readings of 1.5 and above (prefer 1.9-2.0), there is a good possibility that the markets will gap up the next morning. (have tested this out with index futures only) But the best entries are usually in the overnight session when price dips a little more.

This next one is a classic, as of course TRIN does oscillate, it just depends on the timeframe you place it in. I used a 30min TRIN chart, and this most definitely had extremes. So nonsense my freind.

Other than that, the TRIN tends to chop around or trend. Unlike the TICK's it doesnt move from one extreme to another. Therefore, TRIN fades can not be utilized like TICK fades. I personally watch the trend of the TRIN closely.

But to summarize;
All talk, no walk.

jog on
d998

 

[ducati916]

Bobby,

It's long not short. The idea behind it is that everyone is short so you go long at the overnight session. A very contrary strategy.

What a peanut.
This sounds like...................fading the TRIN

jog on
d998

 

[ducati916]

Duc,

Surely some hindsight analysis is ok for an explanation. It's not like we are competing to be super traders by only giving live everything.

Actually I disagree.
Daytrading is about pressure, and pretty quick decisions, you don't really have the luxuary of thinking too much.

Hindsight trades when based on historical analysis muddy the water further by implying that your success or failure resides in the analysis of the market internals, or $Flow, or pivot points.

If these *indicators* truely were 8/10, daytrading would be so easy, it would be like falling off a log. Unfortunately, they are fraught with false positives, false negatives etc and = 50/50

These market internals are not secret, they have been around for a while, and have their fans.........hell I'm a fan, I used them all the time, and they are 50/50

As previously stated, successful daytrading resides in the trader.
The trader makes any methodology a success, or a failure.
Daytrading is playing emotional Russian Roulette. The loaded gun will either make you, or break you.

How many *traders* stepped up to trade live?

Two.
Myself & tech/a

Why is that?
Here you have a guy claiming 8/10 for chrissakes...............step up baby.
8/10 you can't fail.........that is the holy grail.

What do I get?
Excuses, waffle & contradiction and the "you're not a daytrader, so, you wouldn't understand" ploy

I also find it hard to discuss any intraday topic to someone who doesnt even day trade. So, yes I am wasting my time and yours. Let's talk again when you are actually day trading.

My trades are listed live baby........winners, losers, and everything inbetween.
http://lightning.he.net/cgi-bin/suid/~reefcap/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000294
http://lightning.he.net/cgi-bin/suid/~reefcap/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000313

Same two I posted earlier on this thread, but I've another 80 odd.

In summary, hindsight, in daytrading is simply posturing.
Daytrading is ALL ABOUT doing it, not talking about it.

jog on
d998

 

[tech/a]

Ease up Duc.

This is how forums lose quality posters.

Fast to critisise slow to analyse.

There is a vast cavern between knowledge and the application of knowledge.

 

[spitrader1]

Actually I disagree.
Daytrading is about pressure, and pretty quick decisions, you don't really have the luxuary of thinking too much.

Hindsight trades when based on historical analysis muddy the water further by implying that your success or failure resides in the analysis of the market internals, or $Flow, or pivot points.

If these *indicators* truely were 8/10, daytrading would be so easy, it would be like falling off a log. Unfortunately, they are fraught with false positives, false negatives etc and = 50/50

These market internals are not secret, they have been around for a while, and have their fans.........hell I'm a fan, I used them all the time, and they are 50/50

As previously stated, successful daytrading resides in the trader.
The trader makes any methodology a success, or a failure.
Daytrading is playing emotional Russian Roulette. The loaded gun will either make you, or break you.

How many *traders* stepped up to trade live?

Two.
Myself & tech/a

Why is that?
Here you have a guy claiming 8/10 for chrissakes...............step up baby.
8/10 you can't fail.........that is the holy grail.

What do I get?
Excuses, waffle & contradiction and the "you're not a daytrader, so, you wouldn't understand" ploy



My trades are listed live baby........winners, losers, and everything inbetween.
http://lightning.he.net/cgi-bin/suid/~reefcap/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000294
http://lightning.he.net/cgi-bin/suid/~reefcap/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000313

Same two I posted earlier on this thread, but I've another 80 odd.

In summary, hindsight, in daytrading is simply posturing.
Daytrading is ALL ABOUT doing it, not talking about it.

jog on
d998

Just so you know as well, and euler and professor frink will vouch for this, I have posted live trades many times on the SPI.

 

[ducati916]

Ease up Duc.

This is how forums lose quality posters.

Fast to critisise slow to analyse.

There is a vast cavern between knowledge and the application of knowledge.

What is a tangible *edge* in daytrading?
Zero brokerage
Bucketloads of leverage

Intangible edges;
Psychological compatibility to required actions
Risk manager overseeing your trades, who will yank you if you start to break the rules.........viz. overtrade.

How many home based traders have access to the above?
Not many.

The myth that is constantly propagated is one of the edge residing within the analysis tools that can be utilised, just pure nonsense.

The way to dispell that myth, is simply to have someone, who claims an analysis edge, to demonstrate that edge..............not in hindsight, but, at the coalface.

What becomes almost immediately apparent, is that risk managemet, and rock solid discipline are the daytraders road to profit.

Of course, when asked to demonstrate, there is that vast sound of SILENCE.

jog on
d998

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Actually I disagree.
Daytrading is about pressure, and pretty quick decisions, you don't really have the luxuary of thinking too much.

Hindsight trades when based on historical analysis muddy the water further by implying that your success or failure resides in the analysis of the market internals, or $Flow, or pivot points.

If these *indicators* truely were 8/10, daytrading would be so easy, it would be like falling off a log. Unfortunately, they are fraught with false positives, false negatives etc and = 50/50

These market internals are not secret, they have been around for a while, and have their fans.........hell I'm a fan, I used them all the time, and they are 50/50

As previously stated, successful daytrading resides in the trader.
The trader makes any methodology a success, or a failure.
Daytrading is playing emotional Russian Roulette. The loaded gun will either make you, or break you.

How many *traders* stepped up to trade live?

Two.
Myself & tech/a

Why is that?
Here you have a guy claiming 8/10 for chrissakes...............step up baby.
8/10 you can't fail.........that is the holy grail.

What do I get?
Excuses, waffle & contradiction and the "you're not a daytrader, so, you wouldn't understand" ploy



My trades are listed live baby........winners, losers, and everything inbetween.
http://lightning.he.net/cgi-bin/suid/~reefcap/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000294
http://lightning.he.net/cgi-bin/suid/~reefcap/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000313

Same two I posted earlier on this thread, but I've another 80 odd.

In summary, hindsight, in daytrading is simply posturing.
Daytrading is ALL ABOUT doing it, not talking about it.

jog on
d998

Duc,

You need to chill for a few seconds my peanut. Total nonsense, it aint a competition.
Attention everybody else,

Please feel free to give hindsight analysis for the purposes of explaining strategies, tactics etc.

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Intangible edges;
Psychological compatibility to required actions
Risk manager overseeing your trades, who will yank you if you start to break the rules.........viz. overtrade.

How many home based traders have access to the above?
Not many.

jog on
d998

If one needs a risk manager they shouldn't be trading - simple.

 

[ducati916]

Duc,

You need to chill for a few seconds my peanut. Total nonsense, it aint a competition.
Attention everybody else,

Please feel free to give hindsight analysis for the purposes of explaining strategies, tactics etc.

But that is where you are incorrect.
Daytrading is competition.
You are competing against the market, in a very intense, compact timeframe.
Everyday that you trade, you have to be up for it.
If you are not, you will be carried out on your wallet.

That is where you win or lose, are you a tough competitor?
Forget your analysis, any analysis can work, or fail.
Can you hack it psychologically is the question?
Can you lose, get your **** kicked, and come back for more, everyday?

Hence my flogging the dead horse, of, walk the talk.

jog on
d998

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

But that is where you are incorrect.
Daytrading is competition.
You are competing against the market, in a very intense, compact timeframe.
Everyday that you trade, you have to be up for it.
If you are not, you will be carried out on your wallet.

That is where you win or lose, are you a tough competitor?
Forget your analysis, any analysis can work, or fail.
Can you hack it psychologically is the question?
Can you lose, get your **** kicked, and come back for more, everyday?

Hence my flogging the dead horse, of, walk the talk.

jog on
d998

But these are not the points of interest that were disputed by you. Your dispute was regarding TRIN, then you give lectures that one can't explain in hindsight and go off waffling about day trading being a competition. Incoherent dribble displaying your very BIG chip on your shoulder.

This is a forum. We use it to help impart knowledge not compete with one another. I agree trading live is the way to show how successful a strategy, or one, is, but hindsight analysis is good to show what it is. As tech pointed out there is a big difference.

I am not playing baby!

Show us some of those LIVE trades baby and see if you can walk the talk

 

[joslad]

Ease up Duc.

This is how forums lose quality posters.

Fast to critisise slow to analyse.

Couldn't agree more! Pity to see your thread hijacked in this way tech/a.

I was keen to observe a few live trades - may have even posted up a few of my own if things had gone positively "with posts within this thread". But experience has shown me that it's stressful enough daytrading, without adding to that stress by making it all public and having to then put up with the knockers and self-appointed guru's who jump in with enthusiastic glee when trades go wrong. So why bother.

Once posters start resorting to the personal attacks on others then I usually stop reading the thread. I should think most others have probably abandoned this one already by now. Damn pity!

Time for someone to take a chill pill....