Daniel Kertcher/Trading Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

[village idiot]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

If it really is so easy, why is Daniel even selling the course and why is Alvin here defending it? Surely, with compounding, Daniel has made 10's of millions of dollars by now

well he must have made a few bob, since by my admittedly back of fag packet calcs, to collect 10k in extrinsic value on a way out of the money put , sorry , call, with a month to run that would need to be 'covered' by about $5,000,000 worth of stocks..

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

A mate of mine in forex.com just emailed me to say this thread is hitting number 3, on google searches for forex in NYC.

It would be good if Alvin could clarify, otherwise it may damage the "David Kertcher" brand.

Then again Alvin may be a David Kertcher hater, disguising his posts as laudatory, of whom there are not a few about.

gg

 

[wayneL]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Regarding the breakeven stop:

As discussed a breakeven stop in terms of open equity is absurd.

I believe the stop is set at the strike price of the sold call. It MIGHT get you out at breakeven if the level is reached very near expiry. In most cases the extrinsic value will be waaaay higher than the extrinsic when the ITM call was sold.

In this strategy, it is the extrinsic value at inception which is the source of profit. In a way away from the money option, this value is way small compared to the face value of the position.

As we know, extrinsic value is highest when ATM, so if you are stopped out at the strike price, you are buying back at the highest possible price for that day (IV changes notwithstanding). In most cases this WILL be at a significant multiple of the maximum profit, UNLESS nearly at expiry

This why anyone who knows anything about options at all is laughing like a drain at all this bullshyte about break even stops.

There can be one explanation for Alvin's presence here and the well crafted bullcrap designd to pull in nooooobs to Kertcher's site. i.e. I suspect Alvin IS Daniel Kertcher or his employee

By the way, where are these "audited" results?

 

[ftw129]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

ftw129, you really want me to post my results on a monthly basis? If I did, nobody here would believe it anyway, but I may post next week what I made in February.

You want to know whether Daniel's strategy works well over the long run? Daniel has been teaching this strategy since 2001, he lets his students know the trades he is putting on BEFORE he puts them on and he publishes his AUDITED results on his website. If you really want to know how Daniel's strategy works over the long run, I suggest you go to his website and look up his AUDITED results.

I know, I know, this post will again stir some of you up and you will call me all sorts of names and you can call me anything, but don't call me late for dinner. It really doesn't matter to me, I am happy to remain blissfully ignorant.

Some of my friends make $60K to $80K a year but they have to work really hard for it. I don't work hard at all but I make a lot more than that. I think that's only fair.

Alvin Purple

Hi Alvin,

I spent a few minutes on Daniels website reading the testimonials and what I was hoping to find was many people like you that have been making consistent returns for a long time now.

The only testimonials I could see were those relating directly to the courses.

It looks as though Daniel has quite possibly sold hundreds of thousands of these courses over the last 12 years so there must be a lot of long term success stories out there.

I'm not really interested in anyone's "I've been making $10,000 a month" etc unless they've actually been doing it for years, using Daniels trades/strategy. There really must be thousands and thousands of very happy and wealthy people out there by now.

Do you know if testimonials like these exist on Daniels website?

Thanks.

 

[sinner]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

By the way, where are these "audited" results?

I had a look and could not find them anywhere.

 

[namrog]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Today, a friend of old got in touch and during our chat told me that he had been to the Gold coast at the weekend to attend a seminar/ trading course by Danial Kertcher, he hasn't traded before so was trying to shortcut his education by paying $4000 for this 3 day I think he said course, and seemed happy enough with what he got.
There may be more to the course than the 3 day thing, I don't really know..

He said there were 200 people at the course, so doing the maths, $800,000 was turnover, so I'm thinking allowing for lots of expenses, overheads etc that it wouldn't surprise if Danial walked away with $100,000 per day, I'm just guessing on that figure of course !! Every one should aspire to a job like that, and the best thing about it, is there is absolutely no risk what so ever..! to Daniel I mean..!

 

[zac]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

While not Daniels strategy,
Heres someone that manages 2 x funds and makes atleast 30% return for investors purely by selling naked calls/puts.
Im not sure how she manages to get enough premium at the strikes she's talking about though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=BquDGE9KxZQ

Im not high jacking the thread, watching this vid reminded me of the arguments made on here.

 

[zac]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

While not Daniels strategy,
Heres someone that manages 2 x funds and makes atleast 30% return for investors purely by selling naked calls/puts.
Im not sure how she manages to get enough premium at the strikes she's talking about though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=BquDGE9KxZQ

Im not high jacking the thread, watching this vid reminded me of the arguments made on here.

I was thinking there'd be some good discussion around this as it is comparable to Daniels strategy yet I guess the Naysayers are lost on how to aggressively attack something thats working so well.

For the record, im remaining neutral in this thread, as for Alvins claims, im doubtful of him too as I sent him a Personal Message to discuss some things and he hasnt responded to me which leads me to beleive their is an agenda in posting here.

 

[wayneL]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

I was thinking there'd be some good discussion around this as it is comparable to Daniels strategy yet I guess the Naysayers are lost on how to aggressively attack something thats working so well.

For the record, im remaining neutral in this thread, as for Alvins claims, im doubtful of him too as I sent him a Personal Message to discuss some things and he hasnt responded to me which leads me to beleive their is an agenda in posting here.

Zac, using the term "naysayers" won't particularly endear you to optionphyles here.

However, the lady's philosophy is fundamentally different to the Kertcher strategy and marketing around it.

You might notice that I have been at pains to state that there is nothing wrong with the Kertcher strategy, or any strategy. I sell naked options myself.. as well as covered calls of varying moneyness.

The difference is that I know how to quantify my risks and reward via the Greeks and may use any strategy according to how I see the market.

The beef with likes of the Kertcher dream-weaving is the presentation of a single version of a single strategy as an investing panacea. Alvin's representations of no losing months a laugh for any retail trader whose been around the market a while.

Can synthetic OTM short puts be profitable long term? The answer is yes, but there must be a trading edge and appropriate risk/money management. To be honest, I don't know whether Kertchers method has a positive expectancy edge or not but let's assume there is.

If so, why not gear up, mortgage the house, sell your first born etc and make several million in a short space of time?

Because losses are involved and there will be a commensurate risk of ruin, even in (and especially) a high win probability, positive expectancy system.

There ARE actually no naysayers in this thread, only realists.

 

[village idiot]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Interesting vid.

To add to what wayne said, to my mind , and I have done a lot of research and backtesting on it, there is generally a positive edge to selling options, especially OTM puts on the SPX. That said , it depends on the premium you get, and at some level of implied volatility that edge disappears or goes negative. Like everything else, you gotta take it in context

I havent crunched the numbers on daniels strategy exactly but it is likley that the extra costs in going about it the convoluted way he advocates turns a positive edge into a breakeven or even negative edge, or at least certainly less positive than just selling the put.

But even if still positive, the other things wrong with what his claims are;

the profits are wildly over exagerated , 8% monthly or whatever it is - pleease, not poss without a high risk of ruin

the crock of **** that using a GSL on the stock leg somehow guarantees no loss on the whole position. as wayne has pointed out if the GSL is taken out you are definitely going to be down on the whole position by some multiple of the premium you collected. And if you only have daniel's course as your whole education in options trading you arent going to know what to do about it either.

The lady in the vid, although ostensibly she does the same as daniel ie sells OTM puts to open her positions, she dynamically adjusts as her delta increases rather than relying on a stop loss. not the same at all

 

[zac]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Yeah the vid is def interesting and given me some ideas.

I must admit, I have sold Calls/Puts also (naked & covered). I was making consistent returns of 10% plus a month. With volatility so low now I wouldnt get near that.
I havent stopped because the strategy failed me, infact it worked quite well but I stupidly took my capital I used for selling options to place a trade in other markets and burnt my capital.

When it comes to the Greeks, you guys say its imperative to know them inside out, I know of them yet am very much aware of Volatility, Black-Scholes formula yet am just mindful of volatility, ie premium, time value etc. I undertstand decay. Im not asking as to make an argument but want to ask in what way do you guys mean the Greeks need to be known so intimately, I just am wondering if theres something im missing????

ie ive followed other commentators and they do away with the greeks and just talk about cost of volatility etc.

 

[village idiot]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Yeah the vid is def interesting and given me some ideas.

I must admit, I have sold Calls/Puts also (naked & covered). I was making consistent returns of 10% plus a month. With volatility so low now I wouldnt get near that.
I havent stopped because the strategy failed me, infact it worked quite well but I stupidly took my capital I used for selling options to place a trade in other markets and burnt my capital.

When it comes to the Greeks, you guys say its imperative to know them inside out, I know of them yet am very much aware of Volatility, Black-Scholes formula yet am just mindful of volatility, ie premium, time value etc. I undertstand decay. Im not asking as to make an argument but want to ask in what way do you guys mean the Greeks need to be known so intimately, I just am wondering if theres something im missing????

ie ive followed other commentators and they do away with the greeks and just talk about cost of volatility etc.

Assuming I am one of the guys that question is directed at, just because it followed my post, I dont think I have said the greeks need to be known intimately, and I'm not sure they do in all circumstances . The beauty of option trading is there are many ways to use them, and some are more to do with the greeks than others.

I have posted before that you could broadly divide options strategies into those that focus simply on the payoff at expiry and those that are going to be dynamically hedged/adjusted along the way or profits or losses taken before expiry.

Thinking about it it is perhaps more of a spectrum. At one extreme would be a vertical spread that will be left to expiry under any circumstances, where essentially there are two outcomes, one good and one bad. In that case , the trader is simply making a bet on the outcome and need neither know nor care what vega delta and gamma are going to do to his position on the way to that outcome. All he needs to know about is the probability of each outcome and the odds offered by the spread

At the other end of the spectrum might be a complicated spread adjusted daily targeting small movement in IV while keeping neutral as possible on delta theta and gamma. Such a position would be 100% about the greeks so you wouldnt even be in such a position unless you did know what you were doing re the greeks intimately.

Selling a put or call with the intention of living with the outcome whatever it is is probably one step in from the vertical spread since one end doesnt have a defined outcome (as long as the position is small enough relative to your bank roll that you really can live with any outcome).

Selling premium and hedging or adjusting is another step in, so now you at least need to be conversant with delta and gamma. If there is any possibility of closing the position pre expiry, you would at least need to be aware that for example if your GSL is taken out IV will be considerably higher than it is now and you will be in the worst possible position for the vega bomb to prevent you closing it out at the tiny loss promised, and if you dont close it out you will be very short gamma. How could you determine your position size if you dont have a realistic handle on the size of the potential loss?

To summarise, to take any position where you either cant or arent intending to live with the outcome at expiry, you start needing to at least be aware of how delta gamma etc will affect the position when the **** hits the fan. If you hedge you are probably hedging based on at least one of the greeks. You could, and many people do, just take bets based on the outcome at expiry , but i suggest this would be like if you were going to take up poker learning only the strategy for heads up play with 10 big blind stacks.

That is probably not the answer that Wayne might give so would be interested in hearing from him.

Now in return, can you tell us what sort of strategies and position sizes (relative to account size) were making 10% per month consistently?

 

[zac]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

The question wasnt meant for anyone specific but thanks for answering

As for the 10%, I guess from my overall capital it would be 7.5% - 12% I was making a month and it would vary.
I was perhaps a little aggressive in my strike prices as they were at times too close to the price action.

It was a mix of Covered calls & Naked Puts/Calls.
I do admit it was when the VIX was above 25.

Having said that I was comfortable after/during a correction/retracement to place a naked put under a long term support or if price was bullish to place a call above resistance.
There were times when I had to consider turning a naked position into a covered one.

Actually im just reminded, my best trade hasnt even been the selling of options which I loved the returns on, but it was a Positive Carry on Forex that yielded 240% pa or 20% per month as interest payments. So this was definitely a set and forget thing.
My stupidity got in the way though and I closed the position. Also its not for the feint hearted.

 

[Alvin Purple]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Hello guys and girls,

specifically skyQuake, wayneL, prawn_86, sails, CanOz, Garpal Gumnut, village idiot, explod, sinner, ftw129, namrog and zac (I hope I didn't miss anyone).

Well, as you can see I am back from the Gold Coast, totally refreshed and ready for another month's trading. But first things first, I did promise to let you know how my February trades turned out and I am happy to report that all of them were profitable and I collected my usual profit, plus an extraordinary windfall profit.

Apart from teaching how to trade covered calls (and the occasional naked put) Daniel also shows his students how to look for profitable trades themselves. Since I was particularly interested in AAPL, especially after the irrational market behaviour subsequent to their earnings announcement on January 23, I was scanning the option tables for possible trades. I came across one listing which can only be described as the trade of the year. AAPL at the time was trading between $440 and $460 and there was no indication that it would break out from that channel anytime soon. The calls and puts around those prices appeared to be reasonable priced and the calls above $500 could have been traded for 5 or 10 cents. The $595 February call was trading at 3 cents but when I looked at the $600 February call I couldn't believe my eyes. It was able to be sold for $1.885. Yes, you read that right: One dollar and eightyeight and a half cents. You all know that was a ridiculous price for a $600 strike so far out of the money. I actually checked with my broker and he confirmed that was the current price. So I did what any trader would have done and sold 30 contracts. Next day the price hadn't changed, so I sold another 30 contracts which must have been the last ones available because after that the "market closed" sign went up.

As you can imagine, on February 16 all these naked calls expired worthless and I was able to book a nice profit. This was in addition to the usual profit I make every month, so it was classified as an extraordinary profit since an opportunity like this doesn't come around very often.

Now to your post and I'll try to answer each of you in turn.

skyQuake: To calculate the GSL correctly you need to factor in all the expenses (brokerage, interest, GSL fee and the cost of buying back the call) and then set the GSL at a level that gives you a "break even" situation. If that cannot be done, don't do the trade.

wayneL: No, these trades cannot miraculously circumvent delta. But the GSL, applied correctly, works every time.

Really? No example in all of history? I suggest you watch the video posted here by zac where Karen the Supertrader is being interviewed for 51 minutes and she has made $105 million profit which in her case is in excess of 30 % p.a.

Ask any astronaut and they will confirm that they can easily prove that gravity does not exist in outer space.

Prove you wrong, wayneL? That is not my intention at all, I just know you are. And when I look at my bank balance, I know I am right.

Now you are saying it is a valid strategy fully capable of making a profit long term. I agree.

Possible but improbable, but possible nevertheless. That is good enough for me.

No wayneL, I am not Daniel Kertcher and I am not his employee. If you knew anything about Australian history, you'd be fully aware that I have always been Alvin Purple and never been anyone else but Alvin Purple. I am the real thing.

By the way, Daniel's audited results are on his website. Just log in with your username and password and you can easily find them.

DOH, of course there must be appropriate risk/money management. I thought that goes without saying.

prawn_86: I don't know about the holy grail, but I have certainly found a way of making good money consistently.

Why would I want to post in any other thread or forum? This thread is good enough for me as it has given me hours of unadulterated pleasure.

sails: You may think it's fishy, but I just look at my bank account and I know it is real.

Maybe not enough people know about this forum. I didn't know it existed until about a month ago when a very good friend of mine pointed it out to me.

All my trades are shown in my only broker's account, all the costs, expenses and all the profits. And every month there is more money in it than in the previous month. Depending on the broker you use, a GSL can actually be less expensive than a protective put.

CanOz: Ultimatum time? Now you got me really scared. I suppose you got no choice but to shut this thread down because I don't even know what an equity curve is. Unless it is just a fancy name for something that shows that my account balance has steadily increased over time.

Garpal Gumnut: I am sure your wife was happy that you took the first option.

Nope, I am not a Daniel Kertcher hater.

village idiot: First of all let me congratulate you on your choice of name. Of all the names on this forum yours is most definitely the most apt.

You can see the trade history on Daniel's website. Just log in with your username and password and you can find it easily.

No, village idiot, it is NOT a way-out-of-the-money put, it is a deep-in-the-money call. And with CFDs and a 5 % margin it is easy to control a large number of shares. It really is. I do it all the time.

8 % monthly? That's a bit ambitious, isn't it? 3 to 4 % monthly is much more realistic and achievable.

In your post zac is claiming he made "consistent returns of 10 % plus a month" and nobody bats an eyelid. When I state that I am making 30 % plus p.a. (3 to 4 % per month) the whole community is up in arms. You people are too funny for words.

explod: Reality check pleas, explod.

You simply ought to know that I would be breaking the law if I posted next month's trades. Have you really never heard of copyright law and confidentiality agreements? I just can't believe anybody could be so stupid as not to know that.

I am not here to get anybody interested. I am just here to merely join in the discussion.

By the way, I have been told by experts to shut up and they all have failed miserably, as you just have.

sinner: Whether you think Daniel Kertcher is a scam or not is not actually relevant. What matters is that you say that it's entirely possible to achieve these returns.

I am glad to hear that you think it is possible to have been selling vol since 2009 without a losing month. I agree, 2011 was a difficult year, especially August and October where my profits were lower than usual.

ftw129: I am glad you found those testimonials. Most people are reluctant for various reasons to mention the actual money they have made. Yes, Daniel has educated thousands of people over the years. Basically, his students can be divided into three groups:

1. Those that do the course but afterwards do nothing with the knowledge they gained.

2, Those who become greedy, break all the rules, "do their own thing", go off on a tangent and blow up their accounts.

3. Those who follow the rules and are happy to accept modest but consistent returns and don't get seduced to chase the big bucks.

namrog: Yes, namrog there is a bit more than the 3 days. For a small annual fee of $490 you get an email every month which shows Daniel's trades before he puts them on. Attached to it are videos with an explanation why these trades were chosen that month. In addition there is email support available from his trained consultants throughout the year.

Of the 200 people that went to the course there will be some who will do nothing with it. There will be some who think they know better, break all the rules and blow up their accounts. And there will actually be some who will follow the rules and become quite successful traders.

zac: Good video this. Funny how this figure of 30 % plus p.a. keeps coming up. Shows that I am not the only one.

No zac, I have no agenda. I don't remember getting a personal message from you. Maybe it ended up in my junkmail folder. I believe this should be an open forum. I am happy to answer any question, if legally possible, that is put to me in this forum.

You can always tell when the Naysayers are lost: It's when they start calling me names and tell me to shut up. A sure sign.

Sorry to hear you burnt your capital. Could it possibly be because you didn't follow the rules?

As to your last post: It serves as a useful reminder to leave well enough alone.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

And, please, always follow the rules.

Have a very nice weekend you all,

Alvin Purple

 

[prawn_86]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

my February trades turned out and I am happy to report that all of them were profitable and I collected my usual profit, plus an extraordinary windfall profit.

Care to prove this with some broker statements? Myself or any other mod would be happy to verify them and you can block out any personal details.

It would save you a lot of time typing too. All we want is proof, not huge essays. Pretty simple really, i find it amazing how so many spruikers will consistently type away trying to show they are legitimate when all you really need to do is prove it.

Reminds me of they saying; If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, try and baffle them with bullsh1t.

 

[cbc1]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Here we go again.................

 

[zac]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Alvin, well done on AAPL at the 600 strike thats amazing, I was looking at naked puts/calls on appl for similar reasons, its higher premiums due to its volatility and having them well OTM still pay a nice sum for a lower risk strategy.

 

[ftw129]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Alvin,

I really am trying to give you a fair go here and give you the benefit of the doubt but I'm not sure whether you have just purposefully danced around my question or maybe it wasn't clear enough...

My original post was;

Hi Alvin,

I spent a few minutes on Daniels website reading the testimonials and what I was hoping to find was many people like you that have been making consistent returns for a long time now.

The only testimonials I could see were those relating directly to the courses.

It looks as though Daniel has quite possibly sold hundreds of thousands of these courses over the last 12 years so there must be a lot of long term success stories out there.

I'm not really interested in anyone's "I've been making $10,000 a month" etc unless they've actually been doing it for years, using Daniels trades/strategy. There really must be thousands and thousands of very happy and wealthy people out there by now.

Do you know if testimonials like these exist on Daniels website?

Thanks.

You replied with

ftw129: I am glad you found those testimonials. Most people are reluctant for various reasons to mention the actual money they have made. Yes, Daniel has educated thousands of people over the years. Basically, his students can be divided into three groups:

1. Those that do the course but afterwards do nothing with the knowledge they gained.

2, Those who become greedy, break all the rules, "do their own thing", go off on a tangent and blow up their accounts.

3. Those who follow the rules and are happy to accept modest but consistent returns and don't get seduced to chase the big bucks.

I did not see any testimonials of people that have been successfully using Daniels strategies over the long term. The only testimonials I could see were one's relating directly to the content of the courses. NOT RELATING TO LONG TERM RESULTS.

If Daniel has sold so many thousands of these courses for over a decade, would it be unreasonable to assume, that there would be HUNDREDS of success stories all over his website and all over the internet? Success stories that have been trading with Daniel for many years?

So, once again, my question was;

Do you know if testimonials like these exist on Daniels website?

A simple YES or NO will suffice.

Even with your previous answer of;

Most people are reluctant for various reasons to mention the actual money they have made. Yes, Daniel has educated thousands of people over the years.

There would still be at least a handful, of the many thousands of people, willing to write Daniel a testimonial regarding their consistent success over the years.

Try again?

 

[village idiot]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

village idiot: First of all let me congratulate you on your choice of name. Of all the names on this forum yours is most definitely the most apt.

You can see the trade history on Daniel's website. Just log in with your username and password and you can find it easily.

No, village idiot, it is NOT a way-out-of-the-money put, it is a deep-in-the-money call. And with CFDs and a 5 % margin it is easy to control a large number of shares. It really is. I do it all the time.

well at least i cannot be accused of misrepresentation......

I dont know why i am so nice to you after you call me names and will not learn, but do this for your homework: draw the payoff profile of a DITM short covered call, at expiry and any time you like pre expiry. Then draw the profiles for a short put at the same strike price. Report back your findings.

I notice you now use another piece of spruiker bullsh!t - to 'control' a large number of shares. You dont 'control' them, you are exposed to the movement in them leveraged up to the max , good or bad. They might control you one day.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Pure Hoopla, Alvin.

Retrospective trade tales have little kudos on this forum.

Proof Alvin.

gg