Daniel Kertcher/Trading Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

[prawn_86]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Another month comes to an end today and a 3rd successive profitable month @ 4.78%. I intend to post my results starting with this financial year as there has been a consistency with capital employed and the $ values will have meaning (along with supporting statements sent separately to Joe of course). However, as someone has mentioned previously, 3 stellar months does not make a summer. I do not want to risk being on the receiving end of any negative comment and have decided to hold off until at least 6 months results are to hand OR there is a losing month. I am uncertain whether I will be taking the trading ideas for October expiry (16 trades so far suggested) as I am embarking tonight on a 3 week trip to Japan and Hong Kong. Not sure if I want to have any live trades whilst away on holidays.

Why not simply provide them on a month by month basis? Rather than simply pulling a pie in the sky figure out about this months profit...

 

[wayneL]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Another month comes to an end today and a 3rd successive profitable month @ 4.78%. I intend to post my results starting with this financial year as there has been a consistency with capital employed and the $ values will have meaning (along with supporting statements sent separately to Joe of course). However, as someone has mentioned previously, 3 stellar months does not make a summer. I do not want to risk being on the receiving end of any negative comment and have decided to hold off until at least 6 months results are to hand OR there is a losing month. I am uncertain whether I will be taking the trading ideas for October expiry (16 trades so far suggested) as I am embarking tonight on a 3 week trip to Japan and Hong Kong. Not sure if I want to have any live trades whilst away on holidays.

Don't view this as negative... but 4.78% of what. Is that a single trade, several trades? Is that of total capital, initial margin, or of face value of the underlier.

Where is the call on the trade?

 

[Pure Silk]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Don't view this as negative... but 4.78% of what. Is that a single trade, several trades? Is that of total capital, initial margin, or of face value of the underlier.

Where is the call on the trade?

WayneL, it is 4.78% of my entire account balance held by IG. I usually allocate 90% as margin and the result was achieved with 14 trades I believe. Can't check as I am at the airport. I would always represent gains as a percentage of all funds held by the broker as one must in my view, take into consideration the opportunity cost of any unused funds.

 

[hhse]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Q&A:
Does the course motivate? - yes
Does the course provide concepts/ideas? - yes
Does the course provide networking opportunities? -yes

That is all you should be using the course for... if you are expecting to come out of the course equipped with some 'magical formula' you are deluded. I'm sure his intentions are good, but I don't feel that his course is up to scratch, but hey maybe that is a bit harsh for a 2-3 day course especially for beginners?

The course sells a 'trading system', explains covered calls combined with CFDs and explains naked puts. Let's look at these in detail

Trading system: candlesticks & bollinger bands & patterns with CFD's - wouldn't be different to any other back tested trading system. But here is the thing, the frequency of occurrence wouldn't be near enough to give you a regular income. The claim might be - hey if you put '10K', just '10K' in that trade, you would have made so & so. That is stupid and only shows how wreckless you would be with 'bankroll' management. If you are using a leveraged derivative with a trading system (playing with probabilities) it should only be with small trades so that the probability can work in your favour. Which brings me to my original argument of 'frequency of occurence' and there not being enough to generate regular income.

CFDs+Covered Calls & Naked Puts: Perfect. Yes, viable strategy that can generate regular income and I applaud him for teaching that. Any investment seminars that do not teach that are not worth their grain of salt. But hey here is the problem, it's not a viable strategy where volatility is low. Does he mention this? I do not believe so. But hey he is teaching the right thing! However, I just feel that a lot of people would come out of his course and start entering into poor risk/reward scenarios OR feeling that they couldn't find good premium and not being able to figure out why... well that's because 'volatility' is low! And selling premium tends to be a strategy for high volatile environments. You should be using other strategies.

Does the course do what it's suppose to do? Yes, it motivates. Yes, it provides concepts & ideas. Yes, it provides networking opportunities with like minded people? But, does it educate... kind of, but there is a lot of information that is missing, that would allow a new trader to quickly transition the learned concepts into "best/safe" practice. But maybe that is a bit too harsh for a 3 day course with complete beginners attending.

Would I attend? There are better ways to learn if you are motivated enough and you can save yourself the additional few grands that you would have spent on the course. Having said that, even if you do go, and fail to continue to do research, you are setting yourself up for failure. Do you need a motivational boost and find trading buddies and are the type of person that will be motivated once you attend a course and find a friend? Sure... I can see some value to the course.

So yeah these are strictly my opinions only and take it with a grain of salt if you must. Do your research Flame me if you must, but I feel that my comments were fair if you see where I am getting at.

 

[Alvin Purple]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Would I attend?

WTF is that?

A critique from someone who hasn't even attended the course. You are in the right place here. Most critics here haven't attended the course either.

NEXT!

As you will all have seen by now, my SNDK trade turned out to be profitable after all. Must be another case of sheer dumb luck.

The figure of 4.78 % on total capital employed for the month, mentioned by puresilk, is achievable if one employs nearly all of one's capital. I am much more conservative than that and usually employ less than 50 % and that is why my returns are lower, generally about 2.5 % per month.

The point is that I have had average returns of 2.5 % per month for the last three and a half years, but after reading all the comments on this forum I have come to the conclusion that it must all be due to dumb luck.

I have therefore decided to stop relying on dumb luck alone and have taken your advice to buy a few good books on options trading. It may take me quite a while to get through all this reading material (I am a slow reader) and will therefore not be posting for a while.

However, I fully intend to come back here when I have learnt all there is to learn about options trading from books. It may even improve my returns to a higher figure than 2.5 % per month and if that is indeed the case you will hear all about it.

Bye for now,

your truly,

Alvin Purple

 

[saroq]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

I have therefore decided to stop relying on dumb luck alone and have taken your advice to buy a few good books on options trading. It may take me quite a while to get through all this reading material (I am a slow reader) and will therefore not be posting for a while.

However, I fully intend to come back here when I have learnt all there is to learn about options trading from books. It may even improve my returns to a higher figure than 2.5 % per month and if that is indeed the case you will hear all about it.

Bye for now,

your truly,

Alvin Purple

Make sure you get the books with BIG PRINT and lots of pictures Alvin, you'll need those to make up for your lack of ability in the English language.

 

[hhse]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Would I attend?

WTF is that?

A critique from someone who hasn't even attended the course. You are in the right place here. Most critics here haven't attended the course either.

I have attended and I was speaking in hindsight. I won the ticket, but I know people pay thousands for it.

 

[wayneL]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Would I attend?

WTF is that?

A critique from someone who hasn't even attended the course. You are in the right place here. Most critics here haven't attended the course either.

Because most critics don't need to attend Kertcher's course, we actually know option theory and are real traders. We know how each scenario works and all possibilities of how they might play out.

Kertcher's course is well beneath us. In fact, it will be well beneath anyone who has read two books - McMillan's "Options as a Strategic Investment" and "Natenberg's "Options Volatility and pricing". (And if you are serious about learning more, these two books are the industry standard).

There is a further book I strongly suggest, but I haven't finished writing it yet. :

As you will all have seen by now, my SNDK trade turned out to be profitable after all. Must be another case of sheer dumb luck.

And as I have repeated ad nauseum here, these are high probability, low return trades. Where the rubber meets the road is in the minority of occasions when things don't go so well.

The figure of 4.78 % on total capital employed for the month, mentioned by puresilk, is achievable if one employs nearly all of one's capital. I am much more conservative than that and usually employ less than 50 % and that is why my returns are lower, generally about 2.5 % per month.

The point is that I have had average returns of 2.5 % per month for the last three and a half years, but after reading all the comments on this forum I have come to the conclusion that it must all be due to dumb luck.

I have some comments on this... after dinner.

 

[wayneL]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Regarding placement of short strikes, specifically in this case SNDK:

Monthly probability outcomes.... FYI

 

[Joeey]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

my question as always to these strategies/gurus, is that if you are so good and confident with your strategy, why don't you become a fund manager and outperform the market?

If you can do this, and consistently outperform you will then make more than you ever will selling seats to your seminars.

Heck, i will happily pay over 2% fee if you get the returns you say you can over a period of time.

Just a thought.

 

[muzzamcc]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Just finished reading the whole thread after a relative of mine mentioned this guy after seeing one of his free seminar into's. Anyone who has any experience in the trading world would know not to touch this guy's paid seminars after a brief read of this thread. Some of the posts by Alvin and like minded shills are hilarious.

I can however understand how people get sucked into his courses if they don't have much experience with trading or financial products. In short, stay away from these types of seminar spruikers. I'm just glad I was able to save a relative of mine the several thousand dollar seminar fee. Better Kertcher doesn't get it i reckon

 

[Alvin Purple]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Dear muzzamcc,

I am glad you find my posts hilarious. It's a pity I can't say the same about yours - they are sad - just so sad.

Five weeks have passed and there has not been one post to this thread. That fact alone tells a whole story, doesn't it?

But I digress.

First of all I should thank all of you for recommending several books about options trading that I should read. I have done exactly that and I must say it has opened my eyes. While I was reasonably successful with the knowledge I gained from Daniel Kertcher, after reading all those books I have a much better understanding of, for instance, the Greeks and all the other stuff you already know about. Suffice to say that my trading results have improved measurably. I can look forward to a successful conclusion of the current year and will be able to enter 2014 with renewed vigour.

I still say that the $3200 I spent all these years ago was the best investment I have ever made, because it has been returned to me more then one hundred fold (before you guys make another mathematical blunder as you did last time, this does not mean I made $3.2 million, but I made more than $320,000).

For those of you who keep saying that Daniel should run a Fund for people who don't want to trade themselves if his recommendations are as good as he says. Well, I have news for you. Daniel has done exactly that. He started that Fund six months ago, has received subscriptions of more than $22 million and his returns in those six months are roughly double what you can get from other Mutual Funds in Australia. No, he doesn't show his broker statements but his results are audited by ASIC which is good enough for me. I know that some of you don't think much of ASIC, but I'm afraid that ASIC is the best this government can offer to protect its citizens. I am fully aware that ASIC is underfunded but they are doing the best they can with limited resources. They do, however, audit all Funds that hold an Australian Financial Services Licence (AFSL), so at least we are comparing apples with apples.

So, muzzamcc, do you really think that you have done your relatives a favour by talking them out of spending $5000 on one of Daniel's courses?

Do you really think Daniel needs another $5000?

I've got news for you. Recently Daniel ran a four-day course at a very posh hotel in Sydney for which he charged $5000 per person. He attracted 350 paying customers. So, let's do some quick maths. Even though it may have cost him up to $500,000 to stage the event (room hire, excellent catering, morning tea, superb lunches and afternoon tea, staff costs etc.), it will have left him with a net profit well in excess of a million dollars, not bad for four days work.

So, if I get just one reply I may have saved this thread from dying a premature death. If I get no reply, then this thread has probably outlived its usefulness.

 

[CanOz]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

. I've got news for you. Recently Daniel ran a four-day course at a very posh hotel in Sydney for which he charged $5000 per person. He attracted 350 paying customers. So, let's do some quick maths. Even though it may have cost him up to $500,000 to stage the event (room hire, excellent catering, morning tea, superb lunches and afternoon tea, staff costs etc.), it will have left him with a net profit well in excess of a million dollars, not bad for four days work.

Sums it well, I wouldn't need any more evidence than that to drive me away. It's all about the marketing isn't it!

Well done Alvin, that's a great example.

 

[wayneL]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Sums it well, I wouldn't need any more evidence than that to drive me away. It's all about the marketing isn't it!

Well done Alvin, that's a great example.

Exactly Canoz

And that is what we can learn from Kertcher, nothing worthwhile about options, but lots about marketing.



Alvin, if you were really paying attention when you were reading, you would have realized by now that most of your posts on this thread are nothing more than camel dung.

 

[Alvin Purple]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

wayneL, it may be camel dung to you, but to me it's pure cash, and lots of it.

 

[wayneL]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

wayneL, it may be camel dung to you, but to me it's pure cash, and lots of it.

So you still can't grasp the that your claims earlier in the thread cannot be correct?

 

[elbee]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

....
For those of you who keep saying that Daniel should run a Fund for people who don't want to trade themselves if his recommendations are as good as he says. Well, I have news for you. Daniel has done exactly that. He started that Fund six months ago, has received subscriptions of more than $22 million and his returns in those six months are roughly double what you can get from other Mutual Funds in Australia. No, he doesn't show his broker statements but his results are audited by ASIC which is good enough for me. I know that some of you don't think much of ASIC, but I'm afraid that ASIC is the best this government can offer to protect its citizens. I am fully aware that ASIC is underfunded but they are doing the best they can with limited resources. They do, however, audit all Funds that hold an Australian Financial Services Licence (AFSL), so at least we are comparing apples with apples.
....

ASIC does not "audit " funds that hold an Australian Financial Services Licence, or any other entity for that matter. The fact that an entity is registered with ASIC does not mean that entity is endorsed by ASIC.

 

[saroq]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

Five weeks have passed and there has not been one post to this thread. That fact alone tells a whole story, doesn't it?

It does tell a story indeed. Daniel Kertcher's marketing department has been away reading books about options trading and there has been no need to correct their mathematical calculations, expose their bald faced lies or warn newbies away from this charlatan.

But I digress.

First of all I should thank all of you for recommending several books about options trading that I should read. I have done exactly that and I must say it has opened my eyes. While I was reasonably successful with the knowledge I gained from Daniel Kertcher, after reading all those books I have a much better understanding of, for instance, the Greeks and all the other stuff you already know about. Suffice to say that my trading results have improved measurably. I can look forward to a successful conclusion of the current year and will be able to enter 2014 with renewed vigour.

Well done Alvin. You've proved the point raised here several times. You don't need to spend $5,000. Just buy a few books for about $100 and you'll get a lot more than Kertcher's course will teach you.

 

[Alvin Purple]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

So you still can't grasp the that your claims earlier in the thread cannot be correct?

What is there to grasp?

I said that I was making money with the knowledge I gained from Daniel's course, which cost me $3,200 and has been returned to me more than one hundred fold. And now that I have read all the books you recommended and gained a better understanding of options trading, I make even more money.

WTF is wrong with that?

 

[Alvin Purple]

Re: Daniel Kertcher/Platinum Pursuits - Serious or Scam?

It does tell a story indeed. Daniel Kertcher's marketing department has been away reading books about options trading and there has been no need to correct their mathematical calculations, expose their bald faced lies or warn newbies away from this charlatan.



Well done Alvin. You've proved the point raised here several times. You don't need to spend $5,000. Just buy a few books for about $100 and you'll get a lot more than Kertcher's course will teach you.

Four years ago I didn't even know what options were. It happened to be Daniel Kertcher (but it could have been any of the other stock market educators) who got me interested in options trading. I doubt very much that simply reading a few books would have put me on the path to successful trading. The main benefit of the three day live course is that you can ask questions along the way. You cannot ask questions from a book. As I said, the course cost of $3,200 has been returned to me more than one hundred fold and the $150 cost of the books was also a good investment as it has increased my profitability.

Reading only the books without the guidance of a live mentor would not nearly have been as successful.