CVI - CVI Energy Corporation

[Kelt]

Re: CVI - Cityview Corporation

Bliimp an excellent excellent post there,

Re this manipulation are you talking about the share price being held down so it looks like the placement was done at a premium??? or are you talking about insider trading from 10c up????? Both puzzle me as I can see both occuring

G'day YT

I think Bliimp was talking about Feb/March 08'. Have a look at the chart.

The stock formed a solid base at 18c and it ran hard a few times, with people thinking 'breakout' only to have a placement announced the next day. The stock than dived back to 18c. You can see what happened the third time.

 

[YOUNG_TRADER]

Re: CVI - Cityview Corporation

LOL...this thread has gone off the heaazzzzy!
I didn't say Angola was like Aliens Vs Predator territory, with no respect for human life.

LOL man keep these one liners coming, "AvP territory" love it

ohhh also I just checked what CVI did in the US and it looks like it closed at 23c US (I'm assuming) = 25.5c AUD, sorta bodes well for Monday I guess, but then someone said that the OTC is a joke mkt (think it was Goldman on the GCR thread re Legend)


p.s. Its in USD yeah??

http://quotes.nasdaq.com/asp/summaryquote.asp?symbol=CTVWF&selected=CTVWF

 

[skiper]

Re: CVI - Cityview Corporation

G'day YT

I think Bliimp was talking about Feb/March 08'. Have a look at the chart.

The stock formed a solid base at 18c and it ran hard a few times, with people thinking 'breakout' only to have a placement announced the next day. The stock than dived back to 18c. You can see what happened the third time.

Hey Kelt, that Caplin Report due any time now should work wonders for the stock. Basically a report for Institutions for those still doing their anaylsis by Tony Caplin out of the UK

 

[tallmantim]

Re: CVI - Cityview Corporation

Tallmantim: EXM did a placement to Hong Kong investors at a premium to the on market SP. And can I add this: At lot of you guys are from HC, and the man with the most knowledge about CVI (T4P) even wrote it himself that CVI should have made placements at a premium to the SP, which would have equated to less shares issued and more confidence in the team.

LOL JTLP - you will note me message below. You are aware I assume that they gave away a free option with that placement? A free option that is trading currently at about 1 cent?

You need something to entice the "sophisticated investors" - usually a discount, or a free option for speculative shares!

What would CVI entice shareholders in with? Do you think we should have done a placement when the price was at 15 cents at 20 cents with a free CVIO option? I don't think so.

Secondly, don't twist my words. I didn't say Angola was like Aliens Vs Predator territory, with no respect for human life. I said it was A LOT riskier than Oxiana's territory in Australia.

No - what you said was that Oxiana was in a stable part of the world, which infers whether you meant it or not that Angola is not a stable part of the world. I put some evidence showing that while Angola is by no means perfect (it's sitting on the 30th percentile as a rating of stability) it is more stable than countries like Indonesia that are commonly invested in.

Risk is relative. Geological risk for many of CVIs holdings is very low - they are working off assays that the Russians did during the war, although they are not JORC compliant. There is a higher level of sovereign risk with it. Overall the risk is much lower IMO than many Australian explorers when you look at the overall profile.

You all sit here and say "oh it has to be done like this because that's business in Angola". Does that make it right? The people who you basically "employ" create dilution amongst your positions?

As if any of you can honestly say that when the placements were made and the SP dropped accordingly that you weren't left a little dumbfounded/annoyed? I know I sat there and watched the SP get manipulated...up up and away thinking "thank god" only to see another dreaded "3B" and see the price go DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN...

Yes - hopefully that is a thing of the past and the company have learned from it. Very unsavoury!

Well, CVI is staying in the portfolio because this one to me is basically a write off. I will keep it to teach myself a lesson...

LOL - at what price did you buy in? Either you bought at the top of the hype for the first time (ie. high 30's) or you are within striking distance of being in the money. What lesson do you want to teach yourself? Portfolio risk management? Doesn't sound like it is doing much teaching in your bottom drawer! They should have been sold already to teach you that lesson!

LOL man keep these one liners coming, "AvP territory" love it

ohhh also I just checked what CVI did in the US and it looks like it closed at 23c US (I'm assuming) = 25.5c AUD, sorta bodes well for Monday I guess, but then someone said that the OTC is a joke mkt (think it was Goldman on the GCR thread re Legend)


p.s. Its in USD yeah??

Yes - the overseas listing are IMO largely irrelevant at the moment, however I think they are a core part of the longer term strategy.

All is lead from the Australian market.

Yes, in US$.

 

[Wysiwyg]

Re: CVI - Cityview Corporation

Well obviously the company has no focus, and since I first checked them out the fundamentals have been constantly changing.Price movement is the only thing most are interested in with CVI and may be worth a serious investment once they focus on a goal to completion.
Presently holding for s.p. movement alone.











.

 

[JTLP]

Re: CVI - Cityview Corporation

LOL JTLP - you will note me message below. You are aware I assume that they gave away a free option with that placement? A free option that is trading currently at about 1 cent?



What would CVI entice shareholders in with? Do you think we should have done a placement when the price was at 15 cents at 20 cents with a free CVIO option? I don't think so.




No - what you said was that Oxiana was in a stable part of the world, which infers whether you meant it or not that Angola is not a stable part of the world. I put some evidence showing that while Angola is by no means perfect (it's sitting on the 30th percentile as a rating of stability) it is more stable than countries like Indonesia that are commonly invested in.

Risk is relative. Geological risk for many of CVIs holdings is very low - they are working off assays that the Russians did during the war, although they are not JORC compliant. There is a higher level of sovereign risk with it. Overall the risk is much lower IMO than many Australian explorers when you look at the overall profile.



Yes - hopefully that is a thing of the past and the company have learned from it. Very unsavoury!



LOL - at what price did you buy in? Either you bought at the top of the hype for the first time (ie. high 30's) or you are within striking distance of being in the money. What lesson do you want to teach yourself? Portfolio risk management? Doesn't sound like it is doing much teaching in your bottom drawer! They should have been sold already to teach you that lesson!



Yes - the overseas listing are IMO largely irrelevant at the moment, however I think they are a core part of the longer term strategy.

All is lead from the Australian market.

Yes, in US$.

OK. I'm going to try and number and title some things so we both don't get lost.

1. Placements
I am aware about the free options given out. That doesn't concern me. The general market looked at the investors receiving shares at a premium to the SP, hence the nice rise and support (not atm though!). CVI couldn't do this why?

Why not entice "sophisticated" investors (which reminds me of another thing which i will point out) with some CONCRETE evidence and deals? I'm pretty sure the people who were handling the 3B's pretty much killed all credibility in CVI. (again, T4P even criticized your saviour MS about the dealing of the placements)

2. Political Stability
Timmy, let me point something out to you. I do think that Angola is not a stable part of the world. Just because IMF or whoever puts it into some ranking system, doesn't mean i'm going to set up my local milkbar in Angola because it's better than Indonesia. Let me ask you this, would you travel to Angola and try to set up a business there as a foreigner? Or would you take your family there for a holiday?

Look at the surrounding nations (Nigeria etc). All countries that teeter on the edge of civil war. It is nice to see Angola rising from the ashes of its former self, but lets face it, it's no pheonix, and there is always a risk of someone snapping. You can say that CVI have connections in Angola, but have you ever studied Law? If so, you will take note that if anythign was to ever go sour, i'm pretty sure the CVI board would be up against these "prominent" Angolan's in Angola's courts (Hello Schapelle Corby!), quite the formidable task you must agree?

Or, I can put it like this. We all know Australia is a free and beautiful country. I'm sure if you had a dispute with somebody in business, you would receive a fair and honest civil trial, and could be 99.9% sure that the findings that were returned and the way the case was handled was honest.

Could CVI expect the same in Angola if things turned Chromeo? (Nasty girl for all those playing at home).

3. Buy-In Price
Although it's really nobody's business, I can tell you that I've been in and out of CVI twice. Made nice coin off the first. This time around not so lucky (a few cents off my buy in yes).

And what does it tell me about risk management? I know I am a risky person...hell just last week I started crossing the road when the red man was flashing NO! BUT HELL TIMMY I DID IT!

Seriously, the thing I found with CVI is that setting close stops did nothing (due to the manipulation). Having it sit in my bottom drawer makes me look at it and think "what a stupid mistake that one was" everytime i see it. I will probably frame the CHESS certificate when I do sell it just for kicks.

It has actually taught me to understand a companies structure and make sure that you understand and trust the board. Until Mark Smyth starts signing, sealing and delivering...my trust will always be thattta way ---->

 

[tallmantim]

Re: CVI - Cityview Corporation

OK. I'm going to try and number and title some things so we both don't get lost.

1. Placements
I am aware about the free options given out. That doesn't concern me. The general market looked at the investors receiving shares at a premium to the SP, hence the nice rise and support (not atm though!). CVI couldn't do this why?

Why not entice "sophisticated" investors (which reminds me of another thing which i will point out) with some CONCRETE evidence and deals? I'm pretty sure the people who were handling the 3B's pretty much killed all credibility in CVI. (again, T4P even criticized your saviour MS about the dealing of the placements)

So again, would it have been in investors best interests to attach a free CVIO to a placement when the shareprice was at 15 cents?

They have managed now to place shares at a small premium (22.2 cents) without anything else attached. I would prefer there wasn't dilution but it is a fact of life.

As far as the stream of placements through Dec-March? Bloody annoying!

As I've said - I hope the company has learned something from the experience. In hindsight it was a mistake the way they were handled.

If they went through the same thing again I would be extremely upset - but there is no longer the impetus to carry out small time placements.

There WERE no concrete deals that could get people on side during Jan -March - do you remember market sentiment at that time? Bears Sterns going down, an end to the financial markets as we've known them?

2. Political Stability
Timmy, let me point something out to you. I do think that Angola is not a stable part of the world. Just because IMF or whoever puts it into some ranking system, doesn't mean i'm going to set up my local milkbar in Angola because it's better than Indonesia. Let me ask you this, would you travel to Angola and try to set up a business there as a foreigner? Or would you take your family there for a holiday?

I wouldn't want to go to Cloncurry for a holiday either!

That is beside the point however - my point was that where CVI has a high SOVEREIGN risk in comparison to Aussie explorers, it has a lower GEOLOGICAL risk because the ground is untouched - we are not picking over BHPs scraps from the 60's, there has been very limited exploration in Angola and we have Russian assays of the areas that we have bought.

Look at the surrounding nations (Nigeria etc). All countries that teeter on the edge of civil war. It is nice to see Angola rising from the ashes of its former self, but lets face it, it's no pheonix, and there is always a risk of someone snapping. You can say that CVI have connections in Angola, but have you ever studied Law? If so, you will take note that if anythign was to ever go sour, i'm pretty sure the CVI board would be up against these "prominent" Angolan's in Angola's courts (Hello Schapelle Corby!), quite the formidable task you must agree?

Completely agree. Sovereign risk and the risk of the major players (eg. MS) having a plane crash are the main risks in my mind.

Something on either of these could send the share price crashing in a day.

Or, I can put it like this. We all know Australia is a free and beautiful country. I'm sure if you had a dispute with somebody in business, you would receive a fair and honest civil trial, and could be 99.9% sure that the findings that were returned and the way the case was handled was honest.

Could CVI expect the same in Angola if things turned Chromeo? (Nasty girl for all those playing at home).

3. Buy-In Price
Although it's really nobody's business, I can tell you that I've been in and out of CVI twice. Made nice coin off the first. This time around not so lucky (a few cents off my buy in yes).

And what does it tell me about risk management? I know I am a risky person...hell just last week I started crossing the road when the red man was flashing NO! BUT HELL TIMMY I DID IT!

I even crossed the road where there wasn't a pedestrian crossing once, but I digress...

Seriously, the thing I found with CVI is that setting close stops did nothing (due to the manipulation). Having it sit in my bottom drawer makes me look at it and think "what a stupid mistake that one was" everytime i see it. I will probably frame the CHESS certificate when I do sell it just for kicks.

It has actually taught me to understand a companies structure and make sure that you understand and trust the board. Until Mark Smyth starts signing, sealing and delivering...my trust will always be thattta way ---->

LOL

So, you made good coin once, your are not too far out of the money on your second trade, you don't believe in the company or management, you have no stop losses in place on the shares and you are not going to let go of the shares come hell or high water?



Will you sell when you are in profit next week? Or will you continue to hold your profitable holding that you have previously traded successfully for good coin as an abject example of the mistakes you have made?



All the best.

 

[JTLP]

Re: CVI - Cityview Corporation

I didn't say I don't believe in them. I said they have zero credibility with all the nonsense that has occured. Until they start churning out the SSD (signed, sealed, delivered) announcements, they will continue to have the big, juicy, fat ZERO credibility.

Obtain % rights to 4 oil blocks = +1
Successfully complete this underwriting facility = +1
Firm up JORC of Cu & Au grounds = +1
Stop %#^! placements = +1
Become a concreting business just for kicks (concrete deals + another pie for CVI to put a mutant finger in) = +1

See...it's not hard to gain credibility. Don't promise what you don't have

Selling? As I said: do the right thing it's an obligation, and the share price will thank you for your co-operation (CHA CHA sing it to the clean up Australia tune circa '99 ). If the trend is UP and CVI start to DELIVER why would I sell? They are currently an example of a very bad share IN MY VIEW in MY PORTFOLIO. If they start to come through I could re-frame the CHESS letter saying I bought them, only this time throw the phrase "Patience + Placements = WINNER" underneath it.

Timmy, I wish us all the best with CVI.

 

[skiper]

Re: CVI - Cityview Corporation

Well obviously the company has no focus, and since I first checked them out the fundamentals have been constantly changing.Price movement is the only thing most are interested in with CVI and may be worth a serious investment once they focus on a goal to completion.
Presently holding for s.p. movement alone.
.

Well, guys let it be known there is at least one Top 20 holder posting here, and 1 not far off. So having contact with MS and Team, we might seem a little bullish.

Same as the charts, Extremely BULLISH!!!!!!!!!!!

Wyswig, i would of thought at least you would know how goal posts change in Africa due unforseen cicumstances, that is all the hold up has been to to date, know they have multitudes more on the table and growing at a rapid pase.

I suppose you either love them or love to hate them as is seen by the posting.

All good

 

[tallmantim]

Re: CVI - Cityview Corporation

I didn't say I don't believe in them. I said they have zero credibility with all the nonsense that has occured. Until they start churning out the SSD (signed, sealed, delivered) announcements, they will continue to have the big, juicy, fat ZERO credibility.

Obtain % rights to 4 oil blocks = +1
Successfully complete this underwriting facility = +1
Firm up JORC of Cu & Au grounds = +1
Stop %#^! placements = +1
Become a concreting business just for kicks (concrete deals + another pie for CVI to put a mutant finger in) = +1

See...it's not hard to gain credibility. Don't promise what you don't have

Selling? As I said: do the right thing it's an obligation, and the share price will thank you for your co-operation (CHA CHA sing it to the clean up Australia tune circa '99 ). If the trend is UP and CVI start to DELIVER why would I sell? They are currently an example of a very bad share IN MY VIEW in MY PORTFOLIO. If they start to come through I could re-frame the CHESS letter saying I bought them, only this time throw the phrase "Patience + Placements = WINNER" underneath it.

Timmy, I wish us all the best with CVI.

I agree that it is that credibility that the market wants.

For me, I have a belief in the (very liquid) business plan of stitching up as many deals for good quality ground as quickly as possible - goldrush days in the wild wild west!

I like the big picture view.

Failure to meet self imposed time-frames and placement debacles have been the issues in the last few months (as well as broader market issues).

What has been achieved however is pretty impressive in my mind.

Confirming all of the things with "SSD" will be very helpful indeed and well received by the market. $1.1B should certainly help them get a few of the "SSD"s over the line!

 

[prawn_86]

Re: CVI - Cityview Corporation

Well, guys let it be known there is at least one Top 20 holder posting here, and 1 not far off. So having contact with MS and Team, we might seem a little bullish.

Skiper,

We do not post rumours here at ASF, so please refrain from comments like this in the future.

Everyone knows how bullish you are, but you have pretty much ruined your credibility by ramping it back before xmas 2007, so I would suggest that if you have no FACTS to add, then it is best to say nothing at all.

Regards

prawn

 

[Wysiwyg]

Re: CVI - Cityview Corporation

One of the outlays with the finance package is to construct and commission a 100,000 bbl/day oil refinery.Knowing a bit about industry and construction I thought this woulkd cost a fair chunk of the $1.1 billion.The quotes below are from a web page discussing costs/time etc.

The cost of a new refinery is pretty nebulous, but my best estimates (from so many disparate sources, I could faint!) is about $1,000 - 5,000 per (barrel per stream day capacity), depending on the capacity of the refinery. The lower the capacity the lower the unit bpd cost.

For example, a 20,000 bpd capacity refinery may cost $20 million, while a 100,000 bpd capacity refinery might cost $500 million.

For example, in Nigeria, I recently read that the 12,000 bpd topping modular refinery for Akwa-Ibom is for $10 million, while the 100,000 bpd complex refinery being touted for Tonwei Refinery in Bayelsa is estimated at $1.2 billion.

Another price on the Tonwei oil refinery in Nigeria is $2 billion.

http://tonweirefinery.com/bayelsa_oil_refinery_to_cost__2bn.htm
http://www.dawodu.com/aluko60.htm

 

[123enen]

Re: CVI - Cityview Corporation

In the early days of refinery discussion MS has advised people that the refinery would require $200 Million.
More recently, some people that have been in contact with MS have advised that $400 Million is now required.

So there you go between $200M and $400M
Remember this is not a new refinery. It is relocation and recommision of an existing , PERHAPS elderly less technically advanced ( which is not necessarily bad) refinery.
This option is generally cheaper than a NEW high tech refinery.
The super High tech new 240,000 day /barrel refinery to be located at Lobito will touch $6 billion we are told.

 

[tallmantim]

Re: CVI - Cityview Corporation

Prawn,

I agree that it is ambiguous, you need to take the company at face value. They have followed through with what they have said in past; minerals, oil, diamonds and funding etc all look like reality, however the structure is still not crystal clear.

If people are not comfortable investing in a company without crystal clear tangible assets, CVI is not for them. On the speculative side, something like EXM is more appropriate - great blue sky potential with clear title to ground in Australia.

Investing in CVI is to a certain extent about belief - amazing potential, but to some looks too good to be true. For me, they continue to show that it IS true.

Cheers

One of the outlays with the finance package is to construct and commission a 100,000 bbl/day oil refinery.Knowing a bit about industry and construction I thought this woulkd cost a fair chunk of the $1.1 billion.The quotes below are from a web page discussing costs/time etc.



Another price on the Tonwei oil refinery in Nigeria is $2 billion.

http://tonweirefinery.com/bayelsa_oil_refinery_to_cost__2bn.htm
http://www.dawodu.com/aluko60.htm

WYSIWYG,

CVI have announced they are not looking to build a new refinery, rather they are looking to relocate a second hand one.

The figures released are a cost of about $200M through one of the BRR reports from memory.

 

[JTLP]

Re: CVI - Cityview Corporation

And there you go again.

MS told holders $200m to commission. Now that has blown out to $400m. That is a 100% increase in costs. Does nobody else find this ridiculous? Imagine any other company saying that costs had blown out by 100%

MS...i'm taking back my possible +1 credibility and going home

 

[Wysiwyg]

Re: CVI - Cityview Corporation

In the early days of refinery discussion MS has advised people that the refinery would require $200 Million.
More recently, some people that have been in contact with MS have advised that $400 Million is now required.

So there you go between $200M and $400M
Remember this is not a new refinery. It is relocation and recommision of an existing , PERHAPS elderly less technically advanced ( which is not necessarily bad) refinery.
This option is generally cheaper than a NEW high tech refinery.
The super High tech new 240,000 day /barrel refinery to be located at Lobito will touch $6 billion we are told.

Right you are 123enen about the relocation, do you know what happened to the onshore Kwanza Basin Angola oil concessions and the Cameroon Matanda block?

 

[123enen]

Re: CVI - Cityview Corporation

Problem is, JTLP, that MS hasn't "officially" told anyone anything about the cost.

And you need to remember that CVI / Pensador will only be part owners so damned if we know how much CVI / pensador money will go towards the refinery.

 

[123enen]

Re: CVI - Cityview Corporation

Right you are 123enen about the relocation, do you know what happened to the onshore Kwanza Basin, Angola oil concessions and the Cameroon Matanda block?

1. Onshore Kwanza basin.
As of Friday we may have entered a new planning proposal / strategy for onshore Kwanza. Please note item E on the work program list on Friday's release.

e. To establish an Angolan energy fund for the development of onshore oil and gas deposits in Angola;

What does that mean for the future and for past plans regarding Onshore? How should that be interpreted. Once again things are unclear.

Is a new fund going to be created using money outside of Pensador? If so who will own the onshore concessions and who will profit from them/
Pensador or CVI or the members/contributors to the new fund?
All a matter of interpretation because nothing gets spelled out properly.


2. Angola offshore concessions
Friday's release confirms that Pensador will be given the opportunity to invest in four Angolan offshore oil licences which CityView has been evaluating for the past two months.

We understand that 40% of Falcon's share of offshore concessions is available under option. Will the whole 40% go to Pensador. It is likely but once again NOT clarified in the release.

Let's assume that Pensador get 40%. CVI get 6% of Pensador at start up..
So CVI will have 6% of 40% = 2.4% of Falcons oil concessions

Falcon has 5% of each block 15/06, 17/06 and 18/06. So CVI will have 2.4% of 5% =0.12% of the three main deepwater blocks. CVI will have 0.24% of block 6/06. Over time the clawback should mathematically boost their holding.


3. Matanda
CVI has LOST Matanda. It has been granted to another consortium.
It is a long and painfull story but bottom line is that it's gone.

All CVI statements to date, usually through shareholder updates, read that we are negotiating to transfer Matanda for a better location within Cameroon, possibly Bakassi penninsula.
At the moment the reality is that Matanda is gone ,no matter what, and we need to see if we do get anything else in Cameroon in time. Maybe yes maybe no.
I personally think NO.
.............................................

I hope that the HC people that read this accept that I have been fair in my assesment.

 

[tallmantim]

Re: CVI - Cityview Corporation

I hope that the HC people that read this accept that I have been fair in my assesment.

LOL

Yes, all fair and above board 123!

Please see below for your reward.

;-)

**************************

 

[kromey]

Re: CVI - Cityview Corporation

Included amongst the copper licences is Cachoeiras de Binga on which over 6,000 metres of core has been drilled. A non JORC compliant resource of 7.1 million tonnes of ore grading 2.14% copper has been defined there already. The immediate objective of Fortitude is to bring this resource to a JORC standard.
Also included in the portfolio is the Chipindo gold licence area with high gold grades reported in artisinal workings. Its geology is similar to the Minas Gerais gold area of Brazil.
Fortitude has identified a first class management team with a proven track record and a skill set that is appropriate to implement the work programme. The Chairman of Fortitude is Ian Egan who was formerly General Manager Non-ferrous Metals with BHP. He is currently a non executive Director for Kenmare Resources plc, which is developing a large titanium minerals project in Mozambique.
Fortitude lifts CityView to a new level in Angola through its wide spread of company-making projects and underpins the underlying value of CityView.
Mark Smyth..........Prawn what Skiper said it's a fact not rumour.