CSS - Clean Seas Seafood

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Here's The Australian's report on the situation.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...ter-profit-slump/story-e6frg8zx-1225835355505

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

I think the public and especially the shareholders deserve a to hear what the company has to say. We all thought this company was a sure thing when John Ellice-Flint came on board but maybe he got lucky at Santos as any resources company could have done well during the resources boom when he was at the helm. Maybe the board members should all show how confident they are and buy a million shares each.
2 big problems now. CSS's risk assessment clearly hasn't worked. The fingerlings dying problem should have been fixed anticipated and fixed before it happened. Need to be proactive.
And the other is that they appear to be set up to do big things in terms of infrastructure and staff but they have nothing to do with it all now that the little ones are dead. They're going to keep burning through cash like there is no tomorrow. All their eggs (not many left may I add) are in the one basket now with little time to get it right.
Still holding.....just. DYOR-look what happens when you trust the "experts".
Any opinions on what the SP will do today?

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

steveba5 said:

1. We all thought this company was a sure thing when John Ellice-Flint came on board but maybe he got lucky at Santos as any resources company could have done well during the resources boom when he was at the helm.

2 big problems now. CSS's risk assessment clearly hasn't worked. The fingerlings dying problem should have been fixed anticipated and fixed before it happened. Need to be proactive.

3. They're going to keep burning through cash like there is no tomorrow. All their eggs (not many left may I add) are in the one basket now with little time to get it right.

4. Any opinions on what the SP will do today?

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Hi Steveba5, i numbered some the points in your post i can answer.

1. The stockmarket has no sure things. And small caps trying ground breaking research that have never made a profit are very high risk with high potential returns. This thread has been full of unrelistic claims and i have tried to level out the fluffy comments for well over a year. And coped lots of flack for my effort.

2. Fingerlings dying was anticipated and has happened twice before but this is the first time it was announced to investors. The other times we just had the lack of "Hatchery bred Tuna now 2kg" announcement to go on. Mortalities are normal although i am stunned they were using a flow through system with little to no disease control.

3. So true and this is what i am concerned about. The grow out side of the business started as a disaster and has been going downhill since. CSS bought the grow out from Hagen when it was losing money. The low FCR and yet to be disclosed qty of YTK mortalities is the real issue for CSS survival.
If they concentrated only on the SBT hatchery I think they will succeed.

4. I dont know. But the Mums and Dads only heard the news on the weekend had had no chance to sell on friday.

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Well, I sold out today, for an appalling 66% loss, by far the worst trade I have been unfortunate enough to make so far, although I realise many people bought in much higher than I did.

I feel a bit naive for having as much faith in CSS as I did. They had a track record of poor updates, but I thought the business plan was promising regardless. Unfortunately, their (in my opinion) criminal lack of updates with their delay in informing the market of the deaths, quite likely to allow their insiders to sell out before the news was out is inexcusable. IP was an excuse used for lack of updates, but to stay quiet about the deaths was completely deplorable, and to top it off, it was done without a trading halt. Anyone feeling angry about the situation has good reason.

Presumably the deaths were caused by disease. By 38 days the fish should be very easy to raise. If they are are seriously susceptible to disease like that I have concerns about what they are going to catch when put into the offshore cages. More care should have been taken to keep the incoming water safe, perhaps their massive cash burn caused them to try to cut corners. They probably don't have many corners left to cut, and they certainly aren't in a happy cash position. I can't see fund raising being successful now, so my guess is that they'll either go bankrupt, get bought out, or bring in a partner. Bankruptcy looks like my current guess.

If things had gone well we might have seen spectacular results, but this setback is severe and perhaps terminal. It's possible that had they simply been more careful with disease prevention they might have ended up with their 25,000 SBT off to Japan in the near future, but now it looks like they will only get the chance to have a go at that next year if they get a large amount of extra money... and I can't see where that might come from. If they ever turn a profit it isn't likely to be soon, and isn't going to be a smooth ride.

I wish I had sat back and watched until CSS had closed the life cycle in good numbers and had enough cash on hand to get them through to a profitable stage, which now seems likely never to happen.

Good luck to those still holding, although with this final display of incompetence and insult to the investors, I can't say I would want to be sticking around even if I thought things were looking promising if it meant financially backing these people.

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

So what went wrong.

This business is like any other business and its called location location location.

If you care to compare other breeding projects around the world with this one there is one glaring difference,
All the others are on, or nearby natural spawning grounds.

This location was chosen because of its proximity to home ie Port Lincoln and the close relationship with politicians and the strong emotional content of Australians wishing to save the species.
My guess is most people purchased because of the emotional content

The whole Australian fishing industry was wiped out in 30 years because politicians who didn’t then and don’t now have any idea. It’s easy to sell a politician especially when there is brownie points for them and when he/she doesn’t have a clue.

In the end breeding tuna will be quiet simple but it requires instinct not science.

We have all become beholden to scientists but do they really know what they are doing. (Take climate Change for example)

In Australia most of them are employed by government agencies and as such are never going to speak out.

As far as hiding behind intellectual property rights! How can they possibly have an intellectual property right that has any value when Kali Tuna ( which belongs to Tony Santic) has spawned tuna naturally.

The adhoc GNRHA implant that is used is far from a secret. A chemical compound that is attached to the outside flesh of the fish by an experienced diver using a spear is far from a secret.

Further no one seems to have got to the point of the requirement that is necessary to adapt fish to local conditions.

You cannot just take them from hot water to cold water, that alone will kill them immediately. They first must be acclimatized and slowly.

If you care to have a close look at tuna spawning grounds around the world, they are all in areas of warm water, they all have calm weather, and above all they all congregate in area’s where the water is very deep.

The Achotines Laboratory in Panama has been spawning captive yellowfin tuna for years but there are still no adult tuna spawned and grown into captivity
The question is why?

http://www.iattc.org/AchotinesLab/AchotinesLaboratoryHistoryENG.htm

How you expect to pull it off in a tank defies logic.
This is a pelagic fish that is used to and has adapted to wide open spaces and has a schooling behavior that has to be addressed.
Schooling behavior is a mechanism that protects the fish from predators especially when young.

You should also note that tuna have a approx 5% negative buoyancy this allows them to rest by aqua planning over long distances in deep water. They have the most perfect shape to aqua plane when you add negative buoyancy.

Every time I see the young fish swimming around they only remind me of spooked fish, frightened to the death.

My guess is the company will be hand in hand with the Government for a bail out,
This government has a policy of money for nothing. So do not despair yet .!!!!!!

As far as 25,000 tonnes of fish are concerned with the attitude of CSS they are in dream time.

Not a share holder YET!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

is it correct that the fingerlings died after 38 days ish but this was not reported?

Oh dear. That's not market sensitive at all. eeeek

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Comment from the company.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...ds-breeding-plan/story-e6frg8zx-1225835815457

Discl: Not holding.

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

CSS Investors,

Having read today's Australian report I now think they will go for a Cap Raising.....and probably sooner rather than later as I can't help thinking Mr Ashby's remarks about delaying spawning until next year as a "slip of the tongue". I am sure Hagen and Patersons would have preferred that investors believe a March spawn was a possibility and, hence, an appreciation in the SP throughout March. Mr Ashby has poured cold water on that possibility in a momentary lapse of honesty....quite unlike CSS really!

Anyway, if I were a holder ( I am not ) I would look for one very critical sign if a CapRaising was on offer and that is that the Stehrs take up their full entitlement and do not dilute any further. If they don't it is a clear signal that they don't have confidence in success next year and they would be gradually transferring risk to shareholders.
I can see no benefit in participating in a Cap Raising. You will get to purchase shares on market later in the year and will have the benefit of sitting on the sidelines when the annual report comes out which I think will be very ugly.

Patersons stand to make a lot of money from yet another Cap Raising , view their price target with an appropriate degree of sceptisism.

Once again - my opinion only, DYOR.

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Somehow, I'm not surprised that the ASX has not bothered to issue a "please explain" to CSS regarding the timing of CSS' announcements to the market concerning the survival rates of the fingerlings.

Tge oracle - I'm led to believe by a mate who is a holder of CSS shares (I am not) that the Stehrs did not participate in the most recent cap raising. He (and therefore I) may very well be mistaken, but the fact of the matter is that the most recent cap raising was undersubscribed and Patersons has just worn a considerable loss on the share price. I wouldn't trust their valuation whatsoever.

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Bear in mind though that major shareholders don't always have the means to take up entitlements in share issues, whatever their level of confidence in the company concerned.

This can be particularly so where a disproportionate amount of their wealth is already invested in the company and where that investment isn't returning an income.

I don't hold shares in CSS, nor am I familiar with the financial affairs of the parties involved.

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Share price up 2c today so far to add to a useful gain yesterday. Still trading at a fair discount to what it traded at prior to Friday's announcement.

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

McCoy Pauley said:

Share price up 2c today so far to add to a useful gain yesterday. Still trading at a fair discount to what it traded at prior to Friday's announcement.

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In the Australian they refered to it as a "Dead Fish Bounce"
Thanks for the link oldblue.
but still good to see it has support, maybe speculators.
The volume is curious
Fri = 100m
Mon = 50m
tue = 25m (not over yet)
Half the previous days volume.

When will the big investors announce a change in holding if they sold on friday?
Macquarie and AMP

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Read the article.

The company is saying that the fingerlings dying is just a cliche and it can be overcome.

Patterson's still believe in the fundamentals of the tuna business cycle are in place and see a buying opportunity. Target reduce to $1. Maybe one day it will get there if it doesn't go broke first.

As I type the share price hits 14c and it could potentially go higher in the next few days probably before falling after the scalpers move on. It would be ironic to see it get over 25c again in this mad rush.

I sold out today the last of my positon. I may regret it but my mistake was made long before the fall so I deserve to lose on this one. I sold out primarily not on the fingerlings dying or the loss in profit; I sold out because of the alarming statements made by the auditors. The inflow and outflow of cash in any business is critical and without it there is just too much risk.

I bet some of the old timers and botton feeders (who bought in under 8c) will stick it through. Sometimes it's the best way to trade - Buying off those in the red who want out at all cost.

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Nero64 said:

Read the article.

The company is saying that the fingerlings dying is just a cliche and it can be overcome.

Patterson's still believe in the fundamentals of the tuna business cycle are in place and see a buying opportunity. Target reduce to $1. Maybe one day it will get there if it doesn't go broke first.

As I type the share price hits 14c and it could potentially go higher in the next few days probably before falling after the scalpers move on. It would be ironic to see it get over 25c again in this mad rush.

I sold out today the last of my positon. I may regret it but my mistake was made long before the fall so I deserve to lose on this one. I sold out primarily not on the fingerlings dying or the loss in profit; I sold out because of the alarming statements made by the auditors. The inflow and outflow of cash in any business is critical and without it there is just too much risk.

I bet some of the old timers and botton feeders (who bought in under 8c) will stick it through. Sometimes it's the best way to trade - Buying off those in the red who want out at all cost.

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What price did you buy in at Nero64?
The fingerling deaths were not a mojor concern to me either. Kinki and Pananma have lost hundreds of tuna spawns between them. The market should not have been greased up to expect a break through so soon. Hiding the deaths deep in the report did not help either.
Cash flow is the issue, as you stated.

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Basilica said:

What price did you buy in at Nero64?
The fingerling deaths were not a mojor concern to me either. Kinki and Pananma have lost hundreds of tuna spawns between them. The market should not have been greased up to expect a break through so soon. Hiding the deaths deep in the report did not help either.
Cash flow is the issue, as you stated.

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53c initially
Then traded for a week around that price then went into a trading halt then to my horror fell to 25c.
I didn't buy in at 25c because I wanted to hear about the spawning results and didn't want to risk. All I need was a 2c move to get my money back if I took up 15K worth.

When the results came out in Jan I didn't act until later in the day despite seeing it rise through 29c. I bought a heap at 31c to average my buy in at 32c.

That same day I put in a limit order to sell at 31.5c (becuase I didn't feel good about the lack of forward movement) just below the day high of 32.5c. It hit 31.5 several times but my order was too far back in the queue. I made the mistake of making it a day only order so when it traded at 31.5 the next day I wasn't filled again.

I then watched it slowly fall the next few weeks. I stubbonly hung on then the interim came out and next thing I know it was at 7.5c.

Errors compounded by errors. It has changed my thinking totally. It's a shame becuse I have become a better trader by using stop losses but I tried to treat this one as an investment not a trade and I got burnt. Lost 60% of capital invested.

I closed out all my losing trades yesterday except one. It's time to think and reasess.

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

oldblue said:

Bear in mind though that major shareholders don't always have the means to take up entitlements in share issues, whatever their level of confidence in the company concerned.

This can be particularly so where a disproportionate amount of their wealth is already invested in the company and where that investment isn't returning an income.

I don't hold shares in CSS, nor am I familiar with the financial affairs of the parties involved.

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I understand what you are saying Oldblue, but CSS is at a crtical stage of its very existence. It is CSS's lack of disclosure and integrity in reporting that is of great concern to investors. The Sterhrs know exactly what the true state of CSS's financial affairs are and if they truly believe CSS has a viable future they could easily structure a deal through a broker or institutional investor whereby the shares could be sold back once the company had achieved a viable / profitible future. I just don't buy the excuse about lack of funds or holding too much stock. I now completely understand why they didn't participate to their full entitlement in the last Cap Raising .......it should be a flashing red warning light to investors if they fail to do so at the next Cap Raising.

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

I feel for all holders........I can reassure you that I've been in the trenches with you.......

While I would never buy a stock like this.........I chow down on raw kingfish at my local sushi bar every second day.......you guys got to try that raw kingfish.......it's kind of sweet.......next to the tuna sesemi.......it's definitely my favourite...

Regarding this stock........realise your losses.......get a prompt divi from the tax man......and plough it in to some stocks with cash flows piling up.....

You can even move into Tassal Salmon.......at a ridiculously low price at moment.........While I own a large chunk of them........I will be happy to welcome you all as shareholding brothers and sisters

Sure Tassal had a flat profit result......domestic Salmon sales up 20%......that would have gone to bottom line but they want to keep growing their own fish........that's what you got to like......management that favours long term over short.

Mgment of this company obviously has a good laugh about their small shareholding family.....the door closes on the meeting......the directors compare paychecks......pour a bit of whiskey out........and have a good laugh .....they issue press releases when the fish spawn........and let you undertake applied linguistic classes when the fish expire.......

You should send these guys a message.......and give away this casino game operated by people who act like they are running a going concern........

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Nero64 said:

53c initially
Then traded for a week around that price then went into a trading halt then to my horror fell to 25c.
.

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You and others are a victim of Hagen's Hype You should send him a bill for your losses along with some of his quotes

tge oracle said:

The Sterhrs know exactly what the true state of CSS's financial affairs are and if they truly believe CSS has a viable future they could easily structure a deal through a broker or institutional investor whereby the shares could be sold back once the company had achieved a viable / profitible future. I just don't buy the excuse about lack of funds or holding too much stock. I now completely understand why they didn't participate to their full entitlement in the last Cap Raising .......it should be a flashing red warning light to investors if they fail to do so at the next Cap Raising.

Click to expand...

Do investors know before hand if they particate in cap raising before they have to commit?
Do you know what happened to the Growfish.com.au web site? they are offline and a google search found no reports later than december last year?

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Interesting reading at this forum:

http://www.topstocks.com.au/stock_discussion_forum.php?action=searchgo&searchtype=fid&fid=1917

They seem to think it will get to high teens and possibly 20c by the end of the week.

Traders don't care about the lack of money they just see it going up!

I would hold out if you still own. You have nothing to lose. It's not going to go broke tomorrow.

I wonder if the DOW tanking one night will stop the upward run.

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Nero64 said:

Interesting reading at this forum:

http://www.topstocks.com.au/stock_discussion_forum.php?action=searchgo&searchtype=fid&fid=1917

They seem to think it will get to high teens and possibly 20c by the end of the week.

Traders don't care about the lack of money they just see it going up!

I would hold out if you still own. You have nothing to lose. It's not going to go broke tomorrow.

I wonder if the DOW tanking one night will stop the upward run.

Click to expand...

There certainly is lots of interest from the traders there. they will all sell quickly though. They are not investors for the long run