CSS - Clean Seas Seafood

tge oracle · 29 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Thanks again for the link Oracle, another one i would have missed. It is surprising they are not bigger than 2 weeks ago, Are they dying at that size and these are different fingerlings? Or old info?

I think Hagen / CSS are being very conservative with their reporting this year and wouldn't be too concerned about the precise timelines of the SBT program achievements. The May investor update will reveal all of the facts.

Basilica · 29 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

tge oracle said:
I think Hagen / CSS are being very conservative with their reporting this year and wouldn't be too concerned about the precise timelines of the SBT program achievements. The May investor update will reveal all of the facts.

Hi Oracle, I agree with you and i am not very concerned It was also less than the 2 weeks i stated only 9 days. Do you think they will still release the May invester update? I took the one 9 days ago to be it released early.

Green08 · 29 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

I have no hessitation in critising companies when there is even a valid possibility. But you have not provided any reason, technical or motive to back up your theory. Last year was the first spawning and it came partly as a surprise. They then had only "many hours' to grow phytoplankton, feed it to the zooplankton then feed the zooplankton to the tuna lavae. They had eggs as feed but that may not have been a balanced diet. And on top of that huge challange they have no motive at all. they got hammered in the share market, Why would they keep that news a secret. I think you need to back up your claims with at least a theory.

there has been so much talk from a dedicated few on CSS who don't talk very much if at all on other threads. I've been reading and watching stock price - seems to be bit of ramping going on.

I'm no expert but they seem to have a long way to go. There are other companies how have a proven record of fingerlings hatching and developing into sizable stock and sold on the market. These maybe local but they have sales to keep the company going.

I always thought it rather odd that AAQ flew their finglerlings to the USA by plane. Fish would feel compression like any other living thing along with other effects of flying. Not saying they would do this but it is a an interesting consideration.

Tuna need alot of space to swim and maintain health much more than salmon or barramundi. The more space the healthier and bigger the fish in the wild or one could conclude aquaculture. So how big are the cages? Not nearly big nor deep enough one would assume to cover the kilometers they swim. How expensive are the 'cages' in the ocean? What are they made of? Insured? Who makes them? If on land in recirculation tanks of any kind then they are not South Sea Tuna by definition.

If no cages how do they intend to monitor the fish, they have the same instincts as any wild animal to 'roam' free in their waters.

Green08 · 29 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

What will they be fed?
At what stages does the feed change?
How much do they need each day?
How much does it cost? What is in the feed?
Any colours or other 'enhancers'? I understand a company uses a colour in their fed pellets to enhance various attributes of their fish.
How long do they need to be on feed to grow to their desired size?
What % of this feed in their life is the 'cost' of the fish when sold?
What precautions are they taking to prevent against infections if raising the tuna in close proximity?

truevalue · 29 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Green08 said:
there has been so much talk from a dedicated few on CSS who don't talk very much if at all on other threads. I've been reading and watching stock price - seems to be bit of ramping going on.

I'm no expert but they seem to have a long way to go. There are other companies how have a proven record of fingerlings hatching and developing into sizable stock and sold on the market. These maybe local but they have sales to keep the company going.

I always thought it rather odd that AAQ flew their finglerlings to the USA by plane. Fish would feel compression like any other living thing along with other effects of flying. Not saying they would do this but it is a an interesting consideration.

Tuna need alot of space to swim and maintain health much more than salmon or barramundi. The more space the healthier and bigger the fish in the wild or one could conclude aquaculture. So how big are the cages? Not nearly big nor deep enough one would assume to cover the kilometers they swim. How expensive are the 'cages' in the ocean? What are they made of? Insured? Who makes them? If on land in recirculation tanks of any kind then they are not South Sea Tuna by definition.

If no cages how do they intend to monitor the fish, they have the same instincts as any wild animal to 'roam' free in their waters.

I think you will actually find that the stock has risen on positive announcements rather than anything that is being said on these forums. Most of the discussion here has simply been analysis of announcements rather than "ramping." I think opinions regarding capital raisings have often been expressed which is hardly what you would do if ramping a stock.

CSS do have a profitable business in Yellowtail Kingfish which provides sales and cash flow to the company.

The reason we are all so excited about the Tuna is because a KG of SBT sells for $25 at the farm gate while a kg of salmon or kingfish sell for $10. The margins are much higher and therefore the opportunity is significant.

Most SBT sold into wholesale markets is farmed tuna to some extent. Schools of young fish are surrounded by nets and towed into Port Lincoln where they are fattened for 6-12 months before harvesting. Hagen and his family have been doing this for years. That wild catch however is subject to annual quotas which means there is a limited number of licences and a limited amount of wild fish that can be taken out of the ocean - hence the high farmgate price.

Growout cages are very big. 60-70m in diameter and 10 meters deep. CSS have 150 broodstock who have lived in one of these cages for over 10 years now and they are in pristine health. The cages are moved on a regular basis and CSS have hundreds of acres of growout licence avaliable so there is no shortage of space.

The step from here to producing adult tuna is not that far from where the industry is now. They are still 2-3 years away from SBT sales but, in resources terms, they have a proven resource and will be mining that resource soon.

truevalue · 29 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Green08 said:
What will they be fed?
At what stages does the feed change?
How much do they need each day?
How much does it cost? What is in the feed?
Any colours or other 'enhancers'? I understand a company uses a colour in their fed pellets to enhance various attributes of their fish.
How long do they need to be on feed to grow to their desired size?
What % of this feed in their life is the 'cost' of the fish when sold?
What precautions are they taking to prevent against infections if raising the tuna in close proximity?

The total cost of producing a kg of SBT will be around $10. Of that feed is the largest component - say $8. the rset is labor, depreciation, fuel etc.

Tuna are initially feed sea monkeys then when fingerlings they move on to a sustainable fish meal based pellet and finally when older, squid and smaller fish.

They will be grown out for 2 years to 15-20kg.

the science of infection prevention is very important and one in which the company is spending significant amounts on.

kenny · 29 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

When (I like to be optimistic ) commercial production occurs and the global sale volume of SBT increases, then the price per kg achieved will fall.

I think this has been shown when both Barramundi and Rainbow Trout farming became mainstream.

green08, I agree with Truevalue in saying there's no been much ramping here as much as trying to understand the risks and the prospects. I'm still learning something every time I log into the thread.

Healthy scepticism is always a good thing.

Cheers,

Kenny

Basilica · 29 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Green08 said:
there has been so much talk from a dedicated few on CSS who don't talk very much if at all on other threads. I've been reading and watching stock price - seems to be bit of ramping going on.

Green08, You have quoted me but did not not refer to a single thing i wrote, So i assume I am one of the few you are accusing of ramping. I insist you take the time and read all the posts i have written and the posts i replied to. I think any independant person will conclude that i have made all attempts to rationalise overly optimistic comments and highlighted the risks, critisise blatently favourable reports in the media and on all ocasions provided my best opinion of the limited information available to investors . Yesterday was the first occasion that i thought i needed to rationalise an overly pesermistic post from a new user who had already declared he was contemplating being a competitor. When you have read all my posts i welcome you to reclarify your opinion.
Basilica

Green08 · 29 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Thank you for your answers. They are valid questions.

Ramping is one thing to another. There is alot of gusto.

As the fingerlings are @ 20 days old at around 1/4 - 1/2 gram each. The next time frame up to 40 - 50 days of age will be the most challenging to grow them with nutrients. Mortality rates are generally high especially in a new venture of stock never replicated before.

Then the stage of growing these fingerlings from juvenile to grow out stage in @ 6 months.

I do hope they have success due to the $26 million in debt and large loss in kingfish previous year.

At this stage the value of Tuna sales are hypothetical on current market prices.

Salmon are sold gutted at around $11 - $11.60 a kg.

Marine Produce Australian Barramundi is $10 - $10.50 a kg they have a proven plan and strong sales record. Their biggest hurdle is not being able to produce enough fish for their sales demands. Which is why they will be continuing with their strong model in expansion.

tge oracle · 29 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Green08 said:
there has been so much talk from a dedicated few on CSS who don't talk very much if at all on other threads. I've been reading and watching stock price - seems to be bit of ramping going on.

Grren08,

As reported by Truevalue, I think the appreciation in the value of CSS is due to a number of factors:

1. SBT fingerling propogation.
2. YTK business becoming cash flow positive.
3. Capital raising commensurate with scale of SBT fingerling success.
4. Strong support from Rabo Bank by increasing line of credit.
5. Worldwide media exposure of this potential breakthrough.

There will, undoubtedly, be enthusiasm from investors on this forum as a result of these achievements but I wouldn't rely on share forums as a reason to invest in a company anyway. Nothing compenstaes for rigorous research and an understanding of what a company does.
The future value of CSS will be driven by the likes of Simplot and the large institutional investors from now on, not smaller retail investors.

As for posting on other shares, I have a particular personal interest in aquaculture and commercial fisheries and I probably don't fit the profile of your average poster.
If I were to post on all investments in my portfolio I would be sat at the computer all day!

Green08 · 29 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

You have quoted me but did not not refer to a single thing i wrote, So i assume I am one of the few you are accusing

I don't believe I singled individuals out - that is your assumption. But hey, if you look at the pages previously optimisium plus. In fact I wasn't worried about you as you were asking your own questions

I have no hessitation in critising companies when there is even a valid possibility. But you have not provided any reason, technical or motive to back up your theory. Last year was the first spawning and it came partly as a surprise. They then had only "many hours' to grow phytoplankton, feed it to the zooplankton then feed the zooplankton to the tuna lavae. They had eggs as feed but that may not have been a balanced diet. And on top of that huge challange they have no motive at all. they got hammered in the share market, Why would they keep that news a secret. I think you need to back up your claims with at least a theory.

Naturally people get excited about their particular interest. I am entitled to make my own analysis

Green08 · 29 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

5. Worldwide media exposure of this potential breakthrough.

That's the one.

Good luck to all holders,

Agree this forum does not control share price. It is however an open forum and questions can lead to greater clarity. Fact. Thank you for your input.

Glad you are not an average invester - goodness knows how all the average people reading would consider your comments re: 'average'.

Jumping to conclusions, never asked for your daily full disclosure - that is your private information.

I find it interesting that I ask questions and all the arms go up together.

truevalue · 29 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Green08 said:
That's the one.

Good luck to all holders,

Agree this forum does not control share price. It is however an open forum and questions can lead to greater clarity. Fact. Thank you for your input.

Glad you are not an average invester - goodness knows how all the average people reading would consider your comments re: 'average'.

Jumping to conclusions, never asked for your daily full disclosure - that is your private information.

I find it interesting that I ask questions and all the arms go up together.

I think Oracle said he was not an average "poster" rather than "investor".

I am the same, having very little interest in adding to the noise of ASF, and I find CSS a far more interesting forum than any others.

Green08 · 29 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Glad you found a thread you're happy with.

As for the noise - personal opinion. Your relatively new.

Basilica · 29 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Green08 said:
I don't believe I singled individuals out - that is your assumption. But hey, if you look at the pages previously optimisium plus. In fact I wasn't worried about you as you were asking your own questions

You quoted me when you made your accusations about Ramping, Why quote me if you were not accusing me? And i consider my comments were very valid. I still insist you read all my previous posts and reconsider your statment.

Green08 said:
Then the stage of growing these fingerlings from juvenile to grow out stage in @ 6 months.

At this stage the value of Tuna sales are hypothetical on current market prices.

Marine Produce Australian Barramundi is $10 - $10.50 a kg they have a proven plan and strong sales record. Their biggest hurdle is not being able to produce enough fish for their sales demands. Which is why they will be continuing with their strong model in expansion.

This is a valid point that i previously made. The life cycle has not been closed yet. I am not aware of any company that has any experience in the fingerling to wild catch size, part of the life cycle. And CSS has a more difficult task then in the wild as the fingerlings will experience about 10 deg cooler water than what they would have in the warmer waters up north where they would be at this time in their life cycle. They will experience threats that they have no immunity to.

The Farm gate price of MPA Barramundi may now be lower then the price you and they previously quoted. Woolworths is selling Barra fillits for $14 / KG retail. Somone is selling at the farm gate for about $5 / KG whole fish (At a loss)

I declared my interests in the AAQ forum when i first joined ASF. I have no shares in any Aquaculture companies. That has not changed. But i am shopping around and will have shares in the future when the time is right for my needs.

Green08 · 29 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Take a chill pill.

Thank you for your opinion.

The Farm gate price of MPA Barramundi may now be lower then the price you and they previously quoted. Woolworths is selling Barra fillits for $14 / KG retail. Somone is selling at the farm gate for about $5 / KG whole fish (At a loss)

MPA do not sell to Woolies - Fact.

Not all Barramundi are the same. - Fact

MPA sell to the premium market - Fact

Most Barramundi sold through out Australia is from overseas - Fact

Basilica · 29 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Green08 said:
Take a chill pill.

Thank you for your opinion.

MPA do not sell to Woolies - Fact.

Not all Barramundi are the same. - Fact

MPA sell to the premium market - Fact

Most Barramundi sold through out Australia is from overseas - Fact

Sorry but i am all out of "Chill Pills"

Please let me know why you quoted my response to Sashimi in your allegations of ramping. Do you consider my comments unreasonable?

My quoting of woolies price for fillits was to reflect that even when you can produce quality and quantity you will still tak part in Supply vs Demand

Green08 · 29 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Basilica said:
Sorry but i am all out of "Chill Pills"

Please let me know why you quoted my response to Sashimi in your allegations of ramping. Do you consider my comments unreasonable?

My quoting of woolies price for fillits was to reflect that even when you can produce quality and quantity you will still tak part in Supply vs Demand

That's fine to quote Woolies price - I don't shop there. However, you put these two companies in the same paragraph without clear delination when they have no association at this point at all.

Basilica · 29 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

Green08 said:
That's fine to quote Woolies price - I don't shop there. However, you put these two companies in the same paragraph without clear delination when they have no association at this point at all.

All Companies compete in supply and demand and i clearly said "Somone is selling at the farm gate for about $5 / KG whole fish (At a loss)" That affects MPA indirectly and my point was the price life cycle of fish will reduce as production increases.

You did not answer ...
"Please let me know why you quoted my response to Sashimi in your allegations of ramping. Do you consider my comments unreasonable"

You selected me to quote when i consider my response to be reasonable. There must be 20 other posts you could have quoted. that i took the effort to state why i thought the post was unreasonable. Please announce why you quoted me in your allegation of ramping, or at least say it was a mistake.

Green08 · 29 April 2009

Re: CSS - Clean Seas Tuna

I selected your quote to highlight someone asking pertaining questions as I do. I was supporting you. If that was unclear - my apologies. You were being perfectly reasonable.

CSS - Clean Seas Seafood

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