Crocodile Hunter Killed by Stingray

[TimmyC]

He did great things for conservation, its just a pity he had to go this way

 

[Blitzed]

It's interesting how someone's death makes such a difference to the way comments about them are viewed.

Had Germaine Greer made her remarks while Steve Irwin was still alive and well, I doubt that anyone would have made any sort of fuss about it.

She's entitled to her opinion. Her timing was tasteless. I just find it rather odd that when someone dies (and especially someone whose life involved doing very dangerous things) he ipso facto becomes a complete saint who may not be criticised in any way at all.

Have a go at Germaine Greer for her timing and insensitivity by all means.
But I don't see the need to vilify her as a person for expressing her opinion about someone.

Julia

I totally agree Julia.......sometimes I think it's more about the media getting ratings and $$$'s than the person, on Monday (when he died) they showed him with his baby son and the croc.....then they showed an upset woman saying that "he should get all he deserves"...I mean come on....how cruel was this to that woman? It happened years ago but they had to bring it up. Now they are all sucking up, maybe they and all of the people that admired him in Australia should have given him more credit when he was alive.
I did notice he and his family seemed so much in love and for that alone he was a good guy.

 

[greggy]

I agree that people are entitled to their own opinions, but I also believe thatpeople can also disagree with the opinions of others, especially when they are as tasteless as Greer's comments. Irwin's family is already suffering enough, the last thing they need is comments that are totally unsympathetic and incorrect. But maybe Greer made these comments to regain some of the spotlight. I think she is well past her use by date.

 

[Julia]

An extract from today's Crikey.com.

Quadrant editor PP McGuinness writes:



Poor old Germaine. She is getting the usual quota of abuse for dissenting about the posthumous praise being heaped on Steve Irwin. But as is usual with Germaine, despite her looniness and contrarianism, there is a nugget of good sense and high intelligence buried in her verbiage.

Of course Irwin took silly risks with the wild animals with which he entertained silly people. Of course wild life is always dangerous, and accidents are inevitable if you get too close to it. Animals in the wild are not cuddly or well-intentioned to human beings - if they are big enough they want to eat us, if not, they don't want to know us. And it is true that Irwin provoked and annoyed animals to provide entertainment for onlookers.

However, the greatest danger in dealing with such beasts is to get too confident and assured that you know what you are doing. The real story of Irwin and the stingray is that he got careless. It is a great pity that he came to grief - he was a harmless entertainer - but, except for his family, hardly a tragedy. He knew (or should have known) the risks, and he took them knowingly. In the process he made a great deal of money - and good luck to him.

The most sensible comment so far has come from John Wamsley, who pointed out once again that the real answer to preserving Australian wildlife and environment is to put a market value on it - like charging the greenies and people like Irwin for their self-indulgence, or charging those who want to collect Australian fauna. If you want to save the wilderness, buy it rather than appointing yourself a high priest with privileged access.

But Germs has a point, and should not be shouted down simply because she is not toeing the conformist line. Personally, I much prefer to Irwin's David Attenborough's docos about the environment and the fauna. But I'd be willing to bet that there is a degree of exploitation there also.

___________

I'm not personally making any comment about Steven Irwin.
I just can't help wondering if the comments made by GG had come from, e.g. someone from the RSPCA who for very good reasons dislikes the idea of wild animals being kept in zoos etc, there would have been quite such an outraged reaction?

Julia

 

[visual]

Julia,
I think that G G comments are being interpreted as offensive becasue they seem to have been motivated by how popular he was.If she was truly interested about the welfare of the animals that she claims he was exploiting you`d think that she would`ve commented whilst he was alive,at least he could`ve defended himself or not.

I think had her piece being published while he was still alive no one would`ve cared,this way is just too mean,

 

[2020hindsight]

I totally agree Julia.......sometimes I think it's more about the media getting ratings and $$$'s than the person..

Blitzed (and Julia)
Yep, the media can and often do twist anything every which way. They treat us like sheep. They ewes us !!! Baaaahht that's just because we're wrung out after a hard day's work and we're like blotting paper. Watch the news every night - especially the commercial channels imho, (Outrage !! Outrage!!) you might as well take early membership to the bigot's club. I just wish that Media watch was given a full hour.

Youre right, that was pathetic footage to drag out of the archives (the lady saying he deserves everything etcetc). Maybe they SHOULD have introduced that item ...."Here's what a lady said at the peak of one of the biggest media beatups in modern history - and this TV channel was partly responsible for it then - and also now for resurrecting it!."...

But sometimes the news is out before they've had time to publish one half-finished headline - those items that spread so fast that the majority of people hear about it by word of mouth. When was the last time that happened - Ian Thorpe out of condition ? Brad and Angelina had an argument? I think that the media had no control over the speed that the news of Monday spread. A true working man's hero. I mean when Holt died it was news, but this was something else, this had passion.

As to measuring tastelessness - Heaps of moral questions seem to be cropping up, weak jokes, whether the gruesome footage of the attack should be available for public viewing - Apparently he himself always said "make sure you keep filming no matter what" or words to that effect. A pioneer to the end - the first time an attack has ever been recorded on film, but is it kosher to show it? I don't want to see it, but I would like to know how it happened. - one day - but not today and not this week. A sketch maybe, not the real thing - arms length from emotions.

One day they might invent a bulletproof vest for divers. Throw in a bit of kevlar maybe. tasteless to discuss it? probably - My vote is that we celebrate the man and his wonderful magnanimous life first.
PS As for GG I dont want to go there - makes me feel unwell

 

[2020hindsight]

PP McGuinness writes:...Germs has a point, and should not be shouted down simply because she is not toeing the conformist line. ...___________

..can't help wondering if the comments made by GG had come from, e.g. someone from the RSPCA .., there would have been quite such an outraged reaction?Julia

Julia Probably you are right - ok ok - instead of her comments being 100% tasteless, I'll modify that to 50% tastless, and 50% tactless - just plain unnecessily inflammatory while a lot of people are sad - real sad.

 

[2020hindsight]

Blitzed (and Julia)
... I mean when Holt died it was news, but this was something else, this had passion.

I mean he had passion . The loss is proportional to his zest for life. I watch his interview with Denton (again) - Im in stitches. As for Holt's disappearance, I just don't recall the word zest being mentioned. More like his droppy eyes. Is it be ok to joke about that event. plenty do, - no moral questions about footage of him slinking away in a Russian submarine. So long ago Im probably the only aussie that remembers As for humour in general at a time like this - I take my lead from Steve. and maybe Martin Luther :- If youre not allowed to laugh in Heavan, I don't want to go there. or GB Shaw Life doesnt cease to be funny because people die, any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. But you're right. I would not like his wife or kids to read this and see it as flippancy. My first post on this thread (way back) was what I would prefer them to read. I know, Ive been there - and those words were crafted by an aunty to my siblings and I

 

[Stan 101]

I understand that the stingray ( bull ray, about 1 metre across and weighing about 100kg ) attack was filmed, so, at some stage we may know what really happened. So far, it is known that the stingray probably felt threatened, with the cameraman in front and Steve Irwin alongside. It stopped and suddenly went into a defensive position and he was caught with no way of manouvering, as the stingray waved its spike.

From the footage I saw, the animal was actually an eagle ray... Not a bull or sting ray..Quite different characters... All very placid unless provoked or threatened...

cheers,

 

[Mouse]

Hi,

My problem with all these people coming out publicly with negative opinions about Steve Irwin, is that most of the time they have no idea of the facts.

An example, to take a quote from Julias post where she posted the quote from Crikey.com

"The most sensible comment so far has come from John Wamsley, who pointed out once again that the real answer to preserving Australian wildlife and environment is to put a market value on it - like charging the greenies and people like Irwin for their self-indulgence, or charging those who want to collect Australian fauna. If you want to save the wilderness, buy it rather than appointing yourself a high priest with privileged access."

Steve Irwin was actually buying up land for wildlife in several countries. Even though he was a celebrity he was a quiet achiever and did a lot that "the public" don't know about.

There's a really nice article about him buying up land here ... http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2006/09/05/irwin3_hum.html?category=animals&guid=20060905170030

But even the article doesn't mention things like how he sent crates of veterinary supplies and food as well as wildlife experts over to help out after the Tsunami.

It's a shame that the self proclaimed "experts" don't bother to find out facts before they voice their opinion.

If 1% of the people who criticize Steve Irwin did 1% of the amount of good he did the world would be a better place.

cheers
Mouse
P.s. I'm not having a go at you Julia, just using a part of your post.

 

[noirua]

Who is Germaine Greer? - the World asks. Turning away with a big yawn - no one wants to know.

 

[noirua]

Different types of stingray: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_ray

The following article - paragraph 23 - refers to a bull ray killing Steve Irwin: http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/TV/09/04/australia.irwin/index.html?section=cnn_topstories

Another American article: http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2006-09-04-obit-irwin_x.htm

 

[noirua]

Jay Leno's tribute to Steve Irwin: http://update.videoegg.com/flash/fu...173454jKoLgLACZuo7Aw7YPTP&cid=/gid368/cid1173

or http://flixya.com/jay-leno-tribute-to-crocodile-hunter

 

[2020hindsight]

Different types of stingray: the following article - paragraph ...G might say - traumatise the hell out of it!!

 

[2020hindsight]

Lessons from the Inmates of the Ark...

teach me first steps how to count - teach me A B C
teach me M that stands for monkey, how to climb a tree
teach me bout the three small pigs , learn of wolves and Mr Bigs
play my part in playground gigs, bullies friends and me

take a tired tardy tortoise take a boasting hare
teach me that a puffed up chest is just a bag of air
teach me how to persevere, dawn till dusk till goal is clear
bravely face flamboyant sneer, bravely face a dare

take a slab of sleeping grizzly, take some bullhorns large
teach me when to hibernate , teach me when to charge
teach me horses flowing manes, over fields where freedom reigns
teach me Clydesdale’s willing chains pulling on a barge

as my education blossoms teach me ways of dove
teach me truth and honesty as seen from up above
teach me to out-fox the beagle, teach me to out-dove the eagle
teach me gentle teach me regal, teach me how to love.

teach me porpoise sense of humour leaping sunlight beams
teach me antlike industry to play my part in teams
teach me canine gratitude, cute Koala attitude
longitude and latitude of gum tipped flavoured dreams

Teach me how to sing with whales, echo friendly bark
Teach me TWENTY THOUSAND tales of inmates of the ark!
let me learn to know them better, whether whale or Irish setter
MAKE EXTINCT A SILENT LETTER
... THEN, ... I'll disembark.!!!
Sorry GG you aint the only conservationist around the traps !

 

[Stan 101]

Thanks noirua as usual you prefer to enlighten than to add your slant (but you can stop telling us - well me anyway - about snakes if you like lol) - couldnt get the third link to work. I noticed the first said "has barb will defend" or words to that effect. Hek Ive done scuba diving course NAAUI etc and in the tropics - I recall being told of the dangers of picking up cone shells (the oringinal Chandler theory) - and blue ringed octupus - fire coral - and to wear panty hose over your head to keep away the box jellyfish - and stonefish and scorpion fish etc etc - even that rays had a barb - but seriously I imagined it as a 100mm ( say) x 6mm diam (say) spike. Did the instructor know any better - no. He was a wseriously experienced scuba diver ( USA origin) - I dont recall being told that the bloody "barb" was a 250mm dagger. Tell me where your average scuba diver would not have been "ambushed" by this mixture of "unexpected enemy forces" and a simple desire to play and move on.
or as GG might say - traumatise the hell out of it!!

What you have mentioned is utter crap. Leave the man in peace. If you want my credentials (not US) I can give you my PADI, SSI and TDI (tech) qualificacations. PM me...

 

[2020hindsight]

What you have mentioned is utter crap. Leave the man in peace. If you want my credentials (not US) I can give you my PADI, SSI and TDI (tech) qualificacations. PM me...

Hek mate no offense to PADI intended. I'm sure youve done more diving that I. Maybe you could tell me what you were taught about rays? I just remember it was "brief" , and I don't recall the words "possibly fatal". Hek why hasnt the option of wetsuits with a bit of kevlar been available?. other than the obvious of cost I suppose.
PS OR is the crap bit referring to GG and the traumatisation? maybe you didnt pick up that I disagreed with her, at least I wouldnt criticize Steve as she did on those grounds under these circumstances given his credentials with conservation

 

[2020hindsight]

If you analyse the colours into their component bits,
and you juggle the percentage green until the blending "fits",
you will find the biggest share is with the redskin or the black,
or a precious few like Stevey, - Crikey mate you had a stack.

There was a quote from somewhere that anyone who believes in racial superiority is suffereing from a pigment of the imagination. Gotta feeling it is meant to work both ways. But in the case of managing a green environment - the white man doesnt score too well imo. With a few notable exceptions like Steve.

 

[Julia]

If you analyse the colours into their component bits,
and you juggle the percentage green until the blending "fits",
you will find the biggest share is with the redskin or the black,
or a precious few like Stevey, - Crikey mate you had a stack.

There was a quote from somewhere that anyone who believes in racial superiority is suffereing from a pigment of the imagination. Gotta feeling it is meant to work both ways. But in the case of managing a green environment - the white man doesnt score too well imo. With a few notable exceptions like Steve.

Umm, how did we go from stingrays to racial superiority???

Julia

 

[2020hindsight]

Umm, how did we go from stingrays to racial superiority???Julia

Julia - It was more about the irony that the aboriginal and the red indian were much greener that the whites that followed nothing to do with superiority in the normal sense - just in their green management skills. And every second word Steve said involved the environment, or crocodiles, or some other green object "It's not easy being green" as Kermit said. Gotta feeling he was the greenest white man that I know. - and loved by all colours.
But youre right it's arguably a bit off the track.
Last thing I want to do is dominate this lead/topic, but I'm seriously fascinated by the world reaction, as well as learning more about Steve and liking him more everywhere I look. There's a set of pollster questions on one of Noiruas websites -

" We are a research firm that is talking to people about Steve Irwin’s tragic death. If you have a few moments, etcetc .....Regent University 1000 Regent University Drive Virginia Beach, VA 23464 ......
1. Did you hear about the recent death of Steve Irwin, also know as the Crocodile Hunter? Yes No
...... 4. How many people have you discussed Steve Irwin’s death with?
.........6. How many total hours of television news coverage ...?
7. How many total hours have you spent reading print news about Steve Irwin ...
8. on the Internet getting more information about Steve Irwin since you learned of his death?
9. How many total hours have you spent talking to others about Steve Irwin since learning about his death?
.........11. Do you plan to watch or did you watch the memorial service for Steve Irwin on television?
12. Did you watch the Larry King television special or the Fox News television special with Greta Van Susteren on Steve Irwin on Tuesday night?
13. ..... a. The media is providing too much coverage of Steve Irwin’s death. b. I think the media’s coverage of Steve Irwin’s plane is appropriate. c. Steve Irwin’s death has captivated my attention. d. Steve Irwin’s death was like losing my own brother. e. Steve Irwin is a good role model to follow.
f. I like Steve Irwin. strongly agree agree neutral disagree strongly disagree
g. I used to look forward to seeing Steve Irwin in the media.
h. I am more interested in conservation because of Steve Irwin.
i. I feel like I know Steve Irwin as a friend.
j. I try to adopt Steve Irwin’s attitudes and apply them to my life
k. I am well aware of the details of Steve Irwin’s life.
l. I have learned more about Sting Rays as a result of Steve Irwin’s death.
strongly agree agree neutral disagree strongly disagree
m. I consider Steve Irwin to be a hero.
n. I strongly identify with Steve Irwin.
o. I have regularly sought more information about Steve Irwin’s life.
p. Steve Irwin has shown me values that I want to live by.
q. Steve Irwin is an inspiration to me.
r. My support for conservation will increase as a result of Steve Irwin’s work. strongly agree agree neutral disagree strongly disagree
s. I am a big Crocodile Hunter fan.
t. I will donate to Steve Irwin's conservation organization.
14. Have you visited Steve Irwin’s website, the Wildlife Warriers, at wildlifewarriors.com?
15. Have you given a donation to Steve Irwin’s organization, the Wildlife Warriors?
16. Are you a member of a conservation organization?
..... 19. What is your cultural background? African AmericanHispanic AmericanAsian AmericanCaucasianOther minority
...... 22. What values do you think Steve Irwin lived by and what impact has his death had on you personally?
Wowo - you reckon he had an international fan base or what. His dad is going to try to keep the show on the road - but who else could fill those shoes. I would fill in "yes I liked Steve Irwin", "yes I have learnt more about rays", cultural background "cosmopolite". "I will try to adopt Steves' attitudes" - except that I'm damned if Im going anywhere near a crocodile