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Coping with mental illness and depression

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That is the tricyclic's main drawback, the side-effects.

The interesting thing is that the study only appears to be based on results of moderately depressed patients.
The researchers said that the drug was more effective than a placebo in severely depressed patients but that this was because of a decreased placebo effect.
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That seems like a bizarre statement to me. How do you know that the placebo level in 'normal' or less depressed people isn't elevated? What basis are they measuring things on if not against a placebo, if they disregard that? It's basically just reinforced my own position, that some, but very few medications work for people with real, problematic depression. (BTW, a lot of studies have shown majorly depressed people actually generally give a more accurate reading for placebos than normal people...)

I don't think any medication will work for people with mild depression. They are more likely to make you feel worse - hence my opinion of the discrepency in the stats. Those people would be far better off just excercising like has been talked about here.
 
Three days this week have been tough for me and have provoked me to think about stress.

Stress is healthy. Adrenaline increases alertness and efficiency.

But too much stress causes the body to prepare for fight or flight and shuts down non-essential functions... like thinking.

Too much adrenaline over time causes the brain to go into negative mode... to slow you down so as not to blow a fuse. You put things off. Listen to your body and follow its needs.

Dystress is not healthy.
Yes... lots of water, fresh fruit and vegetables are essential.

Exercise is essential.
When you exercise to a reasonably high level for 20-30 minutes, the morphine (endorphin) produced by the pituitary gland in the brain, makes you feel better. Dopamine, is increased and in turn increases the production of serotonin which enables nerve impulses to be relayed across the synapses of nerve pathways. So you can think again. Doing little things NOW, even for a few minutes, that make you feel good, increases dopamine. Too high a level of exercise cuts down the morphine production as your body feels you're in trouble and produces more adrenaline... so you need to slow down!

When you feel tired your thinking becomes lineal and deliberate but when you become exhausted your initiative is diminished. You don't want to, nor can you, deal with the issue.

I had to mentally put aspects I could handle into one basket and those I had no control over into another and put a lid on it! I had to tell myself I did not have to deal with 'this' now! I talked to colleagues who gave wonderful support and perspective and it made me realize how important support from others is. It is essential! They don't have to solve your problem but knowing they understand the situation/problem can make such a difference! I went from feeling like crying... but couldn't... to feeling like crying and doing so easily! What a relief!

Am I right in saying that not being able to cry when you so feel like it is a sign of dystress?
Am I right in saying if you feel like you are crawling then it's time to get out and take a brisk walk or run? I could see myself going splat... like a bug on a windscreen where no bit of me could spread any further. I actually ran my dog around the block and time stood still so that when I'd returned and had a drink I wondered if I'd been for the run or whether I'd put it off! It was so weird...

The pace of life and constant bombardment of thoughts and decision-making and dealing with a series of events that cannot be immediately resolved can sure make one feel helpless. Feeling helpless (and potentially hopeless) is the alarm bell ringing.

Emptying the mind... meditation... simply slow breathing and letting any thoughts that squeeze in... go... so you can try again to get to a space between the thoughts. Slow breathing to enable the liver to break down the excess adrenaline and so con the brain into thinking you are relaxed so that your heart beat also slows.

I kept telling myself 'this does not have to be resolved right now. Tomorrow I will have a strategy but if not that's OK.'

If you tell yourself you don't have time to exercise... or meditate... THIS is the time to make time!

I wonder if chronically lazy people become dystressed or is it people who put in high performances, to achieve high standards, who are the victims of adrenaline poisoning... and subsequent depression.

TGIF!
 
Maybe too much campaigning for Obama, Doris?
 
chops_a_must said:
I don't think any medication will work for people with mild depression. They are more likely to make you feel worse - hence my opinion of the discrepency in the stats.
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Personal anecdotal evidence would say otherwise. Saved my life. Perhaps it was severe and doesn't count.
 
kennas said:
Personal anecdotal evidence would say otherwise. Saved my life. Perhaps it was severe and doesn't count.
Click to expand...

Mild depression is a warning to slow down.

Clinical depression is when the brain shuts down serotonin production.
It is impossible for a clinically depressed person to 'snap out of it' because serotonin is the 'electrolyte' for impulses to jump the synapses of nerves. 'Depersonalisation' has them feeling separate to the world around them, like a distant observer watching themselves but not feeling actually present in the situation.

The absence of feeling emotions cannot be comprehended by those who have not experienced this. To see something that gives you a mental pleasure but not be able to feel the emotion would be catastrophic.

This is why so many self-harm, because then they can feel! And it gives them a break from being in limbo.

The agony of needing to escape the pain of feeling so deeply sad... without a current logical reason or cause... can not be understood unless experienced.

It takes guts to stick it out when they desperately want to go to sleep and not wake again because they no longer feel they have the strength to tolerate the agony. It takes guts to weather the pain of not being able to do what they desperately want to do because of the effect on loved ones; to overcome resentment of them because they have to consider them and not their own desire to end it all.

We need to be wary when someone who is depressed talks of ending their life. This is not a ploy for attention but a plan to survive by escaping life. Clinical depression renders one inert. But as they recover and gain a little strength they have the energy to solve their situation and planning begins. It gives some pleasure because they can be in control and finally end the pain. Not all suicide is previewed by planning so all depressed people need close monitoring by their loved ones. The stress involves all.

Medications work on increasing the available serotonin by recycling it and cognitive reconstruction is an essential adjunct... challenging negative thoughts and converting them into more realistic ones. Obviously many on here have had that innate strength and determination. Feeling a part of a group be it friends or family seems to be a common denominator to surviving.

Being specific instead of general is perhaps the most important. This moment... this situation... is not 'always' or 'never'. It is impossible for clinically depressed people to actually believe that this will pass. So they must be supported and reminded over and over again. People who have survived say when they look back they appreciate how far they have come.

I read recently that 25% of pre-schoolers surveyed, presented symptoms of mild depression. Scary. I did a 'Suicide Intervention' workshop years ago as a professional development and have found many 'poorly behaved/achieving' students are afflicted. Some home lives were dysfunctional and support at school was non existent as symptoms were not recognized.

Negative attitudes are a habit for many. For many more they are symptoms that their brains are shutting down and support is needed.
Exercise is a preventative and a cure for many ailments, physical and mental.
An open mind and good listening skills of family, friends and colleagues are too.

Don't worry Julia... Barack gives me lots of endorphins!
 

Well, I don't know if the whole reason is to feel. I self-hurt for quite a while ... more to stop feeling than anything else. The second paragraph there fits more accurately into my scenario, at least.

I guess it's kind of like drinking though; the effect of it lessons with time as your own threshold increases ... & further / worse pain needs to be inflicted to get the same result. Eventually, less reason / justification was needed for it as well ... & the silliest things had me doing it.

It's a nasty cycle, but I believe anyone can beat it! It's just a matter of finding what works for you, meds & therapy weren't for me, but they may be for others. I'm still far from perfect, but; getting healthier each day!


PS;
TV is really bad as well. How can anyone enjoy life, when all you see on TV is the risks entailed with it? If you drink, you die. Smoke, you die. Make a single mistake on the road (ie 5kmph over) ... you die, or someone else does! In which case, your life is over anyway.

I really am sick of all these commercials, sick to death of 'em! Commercials for depression, & spotting it ... creating awareness in a negative sense; as if folks with it are something to be pitied .... all these commercials do is show the very worst / extremes of these conditions; which makes those who have something slightly more mild feel worse. It's like rubbing salt in the wound!


Heck, even if you're a healthy person ... watch enough TV, and you'll probably develop anxiety! These commercials are psychologically designed to instill fear, & sadness - in the hopes of deterring the actions; watch enough, & one could become paralyzed by it. The sad music, the crying faces ... ugh, how about some government sponsored commercials that show the joy in life? Depressed folk that have made it out, just some commercials with happy people, & happy music.
 
kennas said:
Personal anecdotal evidence would say otherwise. Saved my life. Perhaps it was severe and doesn't count.
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Kennas,

Have to say they have helped me as well. I have used aropax which is one of the drugs that apparently has very limited usefulness, according to the latest study. Although am I right in saying that this study had relatively narrow terms of reference?

jman
 

I actually think that study has some "merit". I often wondered if it was the medication working or the THOUGHT of the medication working that helped, so I gave them up.

Unfortunately, the bottle became a good friend of mine until I realised it was happening again (well actually was made to realise by my wife). Now it's just a healthy lifestyle with an occassional drink for enjoyment rather than escape.
 
Doris said:
This is why so many self-harm, because then they can feel! And it gives them a break from being in limbo.
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That's one explanation for self harm. I work with teenagers in a Youth Mentoring programme and what most of them say is that their confusion and emotional pain is so great that they self harm (usually cutting) to cause what they hope will be an even greater physical pain which will divert their attention from the emotional agony.

The agony of needing to escape the pain of feeling so deeply sad... without a current logical reason or cause... can not be understood unless experienced.
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Above you suggested they could not feel.
Perhaps your own comments go to the sense of confusion which seems to veer from intractable, inexplicable sadness and pessimism, to an apathy which causes complete withdrawal from the ordinariness of everyday activities.
(Doris, I don't mean here to be specific towards you, rather an observation about the lack of clarity in defining what we are actually talking about when we discuss depression.)


I'm interested that you mention planning for suicide.
My late father pleaded with me to assist him in ending his life, the methods suggested including taking him from the nursing home and leaving him at my house alone with his rifle so he could shoot himself. Much as I sympathised with his wish to die, obviously to do this would have landed me in jail for abetting a suicide.
He proposed various even more bizarre methods, amongst a mood of profound misery and desolation. Then, quite suddenly, he seemed to become calm and almost happy. I thought, he has accepted that suicide is not the best alternative and has decided to make the best of what is available to him.
Absolutely wrong. A few days after I observed this change in his demeanour, he left the nursing home one night and walked down to the sea and drowned himself. A psychologist later told me that this presentation of calm and happiness in a person previously desperately unhappy and suicidal is usually a result of them having devised a plan to definitively end their lives.

That said, there definitely are histrionic personalities who enjoy the attention they receive from hysterical threats to end their lives.

The difficulty faced by those of us close to them is being able to distinguish between the two states of mind. Too much to expect when often psychiatrists are unable to do this.


Perhaps. But is the best response to this to put them on medication?
More and more young children are being heavily medicated for behaviour which would once have been seen as "something they will grow out of".
I am really concerned at how much we are pathologising normal human sadness and mood changes, especially in children. Human beings are designed to experience a range of emotions, by no means always positive.
We grow by working through these and adjusting our responses to negative events. Taking a pill to fix everything can only result in our feeling that we have no control over our emotional state.

Agreed entirely about the negative attitudes. Agree somewhat less about seeking support from family, friends and colleagues. These are usually less than appropriately qualified to provide the best feedback and can be very worried by someone close to them being distraught/depressed. It is immensely distressing to have someone you love beg you to help them end their life.

I'd much prefer the option of seeking professional help. A psychologist knows what questions to ask and how to encourage insight and progress.
They can now be accessed via Medicare with a referral from a GP.

Don't worry Julia... Barack gives me lots of endorphins!
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Pleased to hear it, Doris. I didn't mean to minimise the seriousness of the topic.
Thanks for your thoughtful and insightful post.
 
That's pretty consistent with a lot of doctors saying it has quite a connection to dissociation.

And self harm is used as a method of "re-centralising" back in the real world.
 
That's what I meant Julia... when the mind is consumed with deep, deep sadness (overwhelming negative feelings... and an inability to feel positive emotions) and they desperately need a respite by feeling physical pain. Exactly what Chops said above.
A friend who was being treated for clinical depression, several years ago, told me about watching her young daughter playing and laughing outside with a friend and thought how wonderful it was to see her so enjoying herself. Then she noted that she couldn't actually feel happy for her although mentally she thought it! She then scratched the skin off her arm in frustration to ease the anguish.
I have to say I've had students who have cut themselves, superficially, and used this as an attention ploy. If kids are seeking attention then they need it but diagnosing the kind of attention requires a professional.
You must have a large heart and be able to keep one foot in your own shoe to do your vital job!

Doesn't this reflect the development or plunge from mild depression to clinical depression where the mind goes numb and inert?

jman2007 said:
I basically just stayed in bed for a week, not wanting to talk to anyone, and only leaving my room for occasional meals.
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My friend said she'd sit on the couch in a fetal position for hours each day, for weeks, when her daughter was at school... feeling like she wanted to cry but couldn't, then suddenly bursting into gut wrenching sobbing. She had a weekly psychologist session that kept her going. When she took a few weeks of sick leave she thought she'd feel better with the break but actually went into shut-down mode.


Yes... Did they say he was probably finally lifting from the depression and this gave him the energy to plan and act? Realizing he would have felt pleasure in being able to escape his 'dark hole' would not compensate you for the loss of future time with him had he been able to accept that 'it would pass... one day... so hold on'.
Suicide interventionists are to show acceptance of their planning and make a contract with the patient to not do anything until x time... when they arrange a specialist to meet with them. I always update my First Aid Certificate but with this too, I am grateful I've not had to attend an emergency.
It's a concern that Queensland has long had the highest rate of male suicide per head of population in the world.
Another friend planned to drink a bottle of rum before using a rifle but stumbled and shot himself in the abdomen. It is so so sad when you talk to survivors and they are so grateful they failed... even though it took months to a year to finally feel hopeful again... to think of the ones that completed.
How hard that must have been for you. It would seem a burden that would be with you always in his not being able to work through it.
And that heart breaking agony of finally feeling hope of getting your father back... to find he had acted.


Again, the challenge is to determine the type of attention they need. Unfortunately many people have found (on this thread too) that some psychiatrists are not helpful and focus on medication alone. A clinical psychologist is also needed to deal with cognitive reconstruction.


Agree fully! I've had a few students who were medicated for ADHD to later have their problem identified as poor parenting skills. The trials in kindergartens in the UK, using Omega 3 for three months, found symptoms lifted and now a lot of parents feed their kids these when really oily fish, two to three times a week, would suffice.

I lecture Year 8 to 12 about the need to balance their stress with sport and taking time out. I actually have a few minutes of meditation with classes every few weeks, especially before exams. Catholic colleges in Brisbane have short meditation sessions after lunch each day and Michael Carr-Gregg assured me that Victorian schools have this in their programs too.

Even today I needed 'time out' as I went through my email mailbox and my digital camera and finally cleaned them out by deleting. Mentally exhausting work! No weeds in my vegie patch now! We don't realize the bombardment we subject our minds to and the need to vary intellectual, emotional and physical pursuits.


I can't imagine the trauma this would have caused. However, my point is that onset of depression is exacerbated when one does not feel part of a group. Lonely people are more susceptible according to research. If someone feels no-one cares about them they are more likely to sink lower. Professional help is imperative. Many people struggle on alone and succumb whilst others endure the recovery period. Knowing they will get there and having people wanting them to recover must make it less arduous. But obviously not always.

Julia said:
I'd much prefer the option of seeking professional help. A psychologist knows what questions to ask and how to encourage insight and progress.
They can now be accessed via Medicare with a referral from a GP.
Click to expand...

Yes. That was well overdue as psych fees are high. A son-in-law is one and works with primary school aged children. His own stress level got so high from traumatic cases that he was spending every afternoon and weekend fishing!

I've asked our GC to enlighten staff on symptoms to watch out for. Two weeks ago a colleague's wife overdosed whilst he was at work. It's amidst us. We all need to be aware for our own and others' sakes.
 

Great post Doris,

And some good input from Julia as well. Some really thought provoking stuff here, you sound like you both know what you're talking about.

Cheers
jman
 
I have often read opinion of 'experts' who say anyone committing suicide is ipso facto mentally ill.

I would absolutely dispute that.

Doris, in response to my remarks about my father drowning himself, you suggested it was sad that he couldn't 'work through it'. (Paraphrasing here.)
If we are talking about a young person with their life ahead, then yes, I'd agree. But here we had an old man, late 80's, who because of a sudden medical event found himself unable to live independently and was put into a nursing home. He was not a sociable person, having eschewed the company of others for most of his life, and his physical health plus being forced into an institutional routine with people with whom he had nothing in common , meant he was deeply unhappy. He simply wanted not to participate in that existence.
Our politicians who know what is best for us deny the old and infirm the opportunity of voluntary euthanasia. He saw suicide as his only option to end his misery.

To me, this means his thinking was perfectly sane. I would have felt the same in his position.

I deeply regret the way he died. It was absolutely horrible. No human being should have to do that, ever. But until more civilised options are available to us, suicide will be the choice of many. That does not make them insane.
 
hope this is common too.. non-market related, i don't think its bipolar

but

does anyone else get one really good day or a streak of really good days followed by a streak or a day of really depressing and doubtful days?
 
agro said:
hope this is common too.. non-market related, i don't think its bipolar

but

does anyone else get one really good day or a streak of really good days followed by a streak or a day of really depressing and doubtful days?
Click to expand...

All depends on how extreme these feelings are; ups, & downs, are very normal, but if you feel absolutely, morbidly depressed in these 'down streaks', then it may be something of concern.

Let me ask you this, are these streaks tied to the market? For example, a streak of great days following a gain ... streak of bad after a loss? As make no mistake, the market can be used as a gambling outlet, and you may have a problem there if so; gambling is synonymous with highs, & lows.
 

nah not tied to the market,, just tied to social relationships etc..

for example, one day everything is going well i think i am on top of things with my friends and then a few days latter i perceive myself and relations differently as though they disregard me or something..probably just irreational thinking

must be normal i'd imagine otherwise if your happy all the time you wouldn't appreciate it as much
 

Are you a young chap? Mood swings can be normal for quite a few years after 20 I believe?

Well, one's perception of self shouldn't really change drastically on a daily basis (in an older person, that is) ... might not be a biological problem though, could be a self-esteem issue? Diet?
 
I want to add to this thread with my own experiences:

I have had severe anxiety and depression episodes that come on rapidly, the most recent last year resulted in me admitting myself to hospital, as I truly was not capable of trusting my own decision making. The biggest hurdle for the most part has been feeling afraid of the stigma of 'not coping'. I work in a professional environment where performance is an expectation. Having to admit my 'illness' to my managers was a huge step, but ultimately wise as I was supported and allowed to work my way back to 'myself'. I am lucky in that regard, I am sure many would face an unsympathetic response, which can be ultimately the biggest kick when you are down.

For any who are unfortunate to be suffering or have the scars remaining, or who fear ' the suffering', I can only mention the things that have helped me. It is such a deeply personal thing however, and in itself this is part of the insidious nature of the illness. You believe that your experience is founded so strongly on personal issues that you cannot imagine anyone understanding or helping. Here goes...

1. Find a sympathetic GP, do not relent until you do. For those who don't have the luxury of choice, ask your GP the questions you need answers to, try and encourage their professional interest. Try and see them a minimum of weekly.

2. Sleep. It's the first thing to go usually, that or the routine. You will find yourself awake at the most god-awful times of the night, your heart racing, restless, nervous, anxious, terrified. In the short term medication is essential, it will give you the breathing space and mental respite to start working out a longer term steategy. Do not fear the anti-anxiety drugs, or the sleeping tablets. Just don't overdo it and stick to the prescribed values. I went nearly 3 weeks without more than 1 or 2 hours sleep per night. Don't lie in bed, read or watch TV. Get up, do your taxes, write a letter, update your diary, your address book, do some housework, anything just to stop staring at the walls thinking.

3. Don't hide. Get out, walk, go see someone you know, you won't feel like it but taking the time to focus on something else instead of the sucking blackness in your head can help.

4. Talk. I recommend a friend who you think may be sympathetic. You will be surprised how many people can relate personal experience of their own or a family member.

5. Inform yourself. Use the web, get a book, learn that you are not alone.

6. Take time to realise that you are suffering from an illness. You don't blame yourself when you get the flu. Depression and anxiety are as physiologically linked as they are mentally (and physicallY)

7. Eat. You won't want to. At least try and force it down you. I lost shocking amounts of weight (4-5 kgs a week). I was on the milk as much as possible as it was easier to get down. And I hate milk, so I got on the strawberry milk . Also, get some vitamins in you. Poor nutrition will hinder your recovery.

8. In the longer term, recognise the triggers and signs. Exercise is very beneficial. WHEN you come out the other side, you will have an appreciation for, and a desire to make change in your life. This is something positive and very often a depressive episode can work as a turnaround point.

9. Stay off the p1ss. It's great. It numbs. It gives you a respite. Its called self medicating and you are far better off with proper medication from the GP. The days following 'indulging' can exact a mental toll on you that you don't need. I do like my beers, and I do like hitting the p1ss every so often. You may need to evaluate the effect your drinking has on you.

10. Don't give up. It can bring you to your knees and lower. It can infiltrate every part of your life and taint it. It can make you cry, make you question every last thing about yourself, feel guilty, feel punished, even make you feel like God is exacting some revenge on you or that you are in some way evil. you're not. You're human, and you need help. You need a break. Don't give up. Dom Spiro Spera...while Breath Lasts Hope lives


Anyone struggling, feel free to PM me. I am in Brissie, and very understanding. I am not insane. Well, not recently

Sandlion
 
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