Coping with mental illness and depression

[2BAD4U]

Depression, stress, etc are a normal part of life and I think are actually good for us and we need these things. It's when you go beyond a "normal" reaction to these things that you have a problem. For me mine wasn't depression but a phobia brought on by stress which led to panic attacks and I think it's important to understand that mental illness and depression isn't just "a" thing it's any number of things.

I once saw a good definition of stress as being: "When the mind over-rides the bodies natural desire to choke the living s**t out of some a**hole who desparately deserves it."

 

[Kimosabi]

As a sufferer of Depression I think comments like this shouldn't be thrown around willy nilly.

Depression is a complicated/complex issue that needs to be discussed with the appropriate people. Find a doctor that you like and trust and discuss the pros and cons of anti-depressants with him/her. In my opininion they have their place in treatment but can also sometimes make things worse.

Ok, I'll qualify my comments on anti-depressants, my Father nearly killed himself on the Zoloft ****, so I'm coming from somewhat of a qualified position.

Now after many hours of Research and qualifying my research on my own body, mind and spirit, I've got to tell you, the answer/key to fixing ALL of your Physical and Mental Health issues, is start eating some decent food.

Decent food is locally grown, RAW Organic fruit/veges/nuts etc.

I have started spending time with people who have gone RAW, and they are all saying the same things. When they go Raw, they loose weight, start feeling the best they have in years, and the diseases that they were suffering from start disappearing.

Now as far as modern doctors are concerned, they are nothing more than legalised Drug Pushers.

Watch the Dr Richard Schulze and Dr John R Christopher Videos on Google Video and then empower yourself to take control of your own health and wellness. You'll be amazed at the results.

 

[sails]

Its not only the person suffering from depression that’s affected often it has an impact on their whole family....

I know what you mean, Pager. I have a daughter who has battled on and off with depression for years. She now has two children, the youngest just over a year old and postnatal depression has bitten hard... And we are pretty much the only real support she has - not an easy road by any means.

Being fortunate enough not to have had this debilitating illness (apart from the normal ups and downs of life), I never realised just how bad it could be until it came so close to home. I certainly applaud those who have come through such a difficult time and empathise with those who are currently going through it.

I do thank those who have shared their experiences which gives hope that there maybe a light at the end of this long, uncertain tunnel.

 

[MRC & Co]

Some advice I can give you Sails, is give her as much support as you POSSIBLY can.

I supported my father a lot, but I feel sometimes I sort of hid from it to safeguard my own health. However, I realise now I could have done a lot more than I did (ultimately, it might not have made a big difference), but I still could have tried. Also, I think its important to try and compliment your daughter as much as possible and just hang out with her and listen a LOT without offering too much advice.

Just what I learnt from my scenario. If it means anything at all.

Good luck!

 

[annalivia]

This will be my last post on this issue as I think it is open to too much misunderstanding and misinterpretation.
If you think you are suffering from clinical depression I do not think that this is the place to try discuss and solve any such issues.
Talk to your friends, talk to your family and seek professional help. I would suggest your doctor is the first port of call.

Oh yeah, one last thing. Don't listen to anything Tom Cruise has to say about depression. Actually don't listen to anything Tom Cruise has to say....period.

 

[sails]

Some advice I can give you Sails, is give her as much support as you POSSIBLY can.

I supported my father a lot, but I feel sometimes I sort of hid from it to safeguard my own health. However, I realise now I could have done a lot more than I did (ultimately, it might not have made a big difference), but I still could have tried. Also, I think its important to try and compliment your daughter as much as possible and just hang out with her and listen a LOT without offering too much advice.

Just what I learnt from my scenario. If it means anything at all.

Good luck!

Thanks for sharing, MRC. Yes, pretty much what I have been doing and is what her doctor recommends as well, but it is quite exhausting at times. And I want to be able to look back later without regrets and know I gave her the best chance of recovery that I possibly could.

 

[cuttlefish]

I had very bad depression and anxiety for a while, it was the result of a combination of factors including physical injury and trauma, but brought a flood of historical events and circumstances to the fore as well that combined to create a very difficult state of mind.

The only advice that I could give to anyone suffering depression is that you have to do something, anything, to take your mind somewhere else and to build up emotional fortitude again. And exercise is the obvious candidate. You just have to force yourself to do all the things you can't face and slowly normality will return. If suffering from a physical injury or health problem the exercise part can be very difficult of course - you have to accept the new situation and reset your standards and benchmark yourself against the new situation and discover new paths.

I'd also recommend really understanding what it is that makes you happy. (not what you think you want, or what you think you need to do for others, or what you are doing to win respect from others, but to understand your own emotional needs and to find ways to address them.).

Sun, exercise, good supportive, understanding, listening friends.

I didn't use anti-depressants though many people I spoke to said I should use them (Dr's, friends etc.). I've had mixed views on them from different people that have been on them - some very positive about them, some very negative about them. I've also had friends that have gone down a path thats led to suicide and I was worried that anti-depressants may have been a compounding factor in that process. In hindsight I might have considered using them but I'm not sure - for me getting out of it on my own was important and I have a level of skepticism in relation to the medical and psychological professions (and some of my experiences have justified this skepticism). I preferred to trust my own judgement unaffected by medication. I did use sleeping pills to get a full nights sleep though didn't want to become dependant on them or to avoid the situation by sleeping all of the time so I used them sparingly. Also one night I had a very strange episode on the sleeping tablets where I was sort of in a sleep walking type of state where I was up and talking and doing things but not properly awake which really put me off them.

Everyone I've met that has suffered from real depression has always said the same thing - they didn't realise how bad it could be until they got hit by it themselves.

I think listening, without offering advice or judgement, just listening and understanding, is one of the best ways to provide support. Also encouraging activity - any sort of activity - even if its just going for a walk or a drive etc.

 

[vida]

Gosh I never expected to read such disclosures on a share forum. I have had my issues too. My sister suffered from manic depression most of her life self medicated with heroin, she died of it in 2003. Two months later a friend jumped off the westgate bridge. She had been talking about 'topping' herself and some failed attempts then we thought she was over it, but obviously not. Easy to say 2003 was the worst year of my life and I am still recovering. When we are faced with such tragedies in comparision whatever the share market does or does not do, seems very insignificant indeed. life is important and we should never take people for granted and listen as much as possible.

Yes, I suffer from numerous afflictions.

Depression, Generalized anxiety, Bi-polar, OCD, & to top it off a hint of a personality disorder.

But, it seems to be all intertwined ; as when I feel happy, I'm no longer anxious, obsessive, or malicious.

I have been out of the rough patch for a while now; not as a result of medication (I found it absolutely awful; the side-effects ...), but just eating healthy, not fretting over the future, vitamins & fish oil seems to help (placebo, anyone?

I tried psychotherapy for a while ... didn't find it beneficial, it actually made things worse for me, triggered anger I guess. All of my problems stem from hurt / anger ... awful childhood, I actually envy those who actually feel love for their family, love was an emotion up until recently I had never felt!

For well over 6 years I wanted to die, I guess you could say I tried a couple of times as well; yeah, life hasn't been all that swell!

For those who have seen my usual posts, you'll be shocked to see me talking seriously! : Humour has always been a mask to hide the sad feelings, even though I'm no longer really sad ... I guess the humour stuck around!

 

[jman2007]

Pager, Chops, Cuttlefish, 2BAD4U, Sails etc,

I really appreciate your input here, and the guts you have shown to share your experiences while battling this terrible affliction, I think it really helps to know that there are other people who have been down that road and have come out on the other side. For those still on that road, I hope you can take some comfort in knowing that it is possible to overcome it, and that there is definitely hope!

jman

 

[Julia]

I know this forum is a place where, by virtue of our being anonymous, we can divulge confidences we might not share with even good friends, but even given that atmosphere, I'm really touched by the experiences that people are describing. There's a lot of insight and courage.

Some people will disagree, and say that 'depression is depression', but I feel there is what used to be called 'reactive depression' which is a rational and realistic response to physical or emotional trauma, i.e. severe injury,loss of someone we love, financial collapse etc., and clinical or endogenous depression which is - as many on this thread have described - an inexplicable feeling of misery, apathy, dread, and all the other negative emotions which constitute what Churchill called "the black dog".

Sometimes I feel our expectations of life are too high. It's just not realistic to be happy all the time. Bad stuff happens and it's reasonable to feel distressed about that. And sadness and grief are normal parts of an ordinary life.

We are constantly told that "there is an epidemic of depression". The manufacturers of anti depressant drugs must be delighted with the sales of their products as more and more GP's - lacking the time to talk at length with patients - whack out more and more prescriptions, often with adverse results.

Of course many people do really need the biochemical adjustment that these drugs can provide. My father took a massive dose of the old tricyclic antidepressants for most of his adult life. When the side effects of these caused a bowel obstruction with consequent surgery, no one would prescribe them for him again. He spent three months in a nursing home in a state of acute misery and finally walked out one night down to the sea and drowned himself.

I myself have had periods of feeling suicidal, but only briefly and in response to particular situations, the depression disappearing as the problem resolved.

And I've been with people I loved who simply came to a standstill because of their depression: couldn't work, could barely talk. No amount of 'reasonable ' reminding of all that was still OK made any difference.
This is the intractable misery that only appears to respond to drugs.

There was a study done that was reported on last year where half the depressed participants were given anti depressants and half were instructed to do very vigorous and sustained exercise. i.e. of the order of three hours intensive exercise every day, rather than a gentle 30 minute stroll. The people doing the exercise reported a greater improvement in mood than did the group of the medication who did no exercise. I can't remember the numbers involved but recall thinking both the number and the length of the study were sufficient to make the results statistically valid.

Exercise works well for me in dealing with stress and depression, and good diet also is helpful. But I think it's an over simplification to suggest that either just exercise or a particular food regimen can control all mood disorders.

Thanks again to everyone who has been brave enough to talk about their experiences. Hope soon they will just constitute memories for all of you.

 

[Pronto]

Thanks to all contributors for their insights. There is of course another side to the story and the comments by WayneL reminded me of another possible villain.

This is from a review I read recently of three books:

The Loss of Sadness: How Psychiatry Transformed Normal Sorrow into Depressive Disorder
by Allan V. Horwitz and Jerome C. Wakefield
Oxford University Press, 287 pp., $29.95

Shyness: How Normal Behavior Became a Sickness
by Christopher Lane
Yale University Press, 263 pp., $27.50

Let Them Eat Prozac: The Unhealthy Relationship Between the Pharmaceutical Industry and Depression
by David Healy
New York University Press, 351 pp., $18.95 (paper)

The reviewer (Frederick Crews in the New York Review of Books, Volume 54, Number 19, December 6, 2007) said:

“…we hear, for example, that an unprecedented epidemic of depression and anxiety has recently been sweeping the world, we tend not to ask ourselves whose interest is served by that impression. In their painstaking study The Loss of Sadness, Allan V. Horwitz and Jerome C. Wakefield cite the World Health Organization's projection:

that by 2020 depression will become the second leading cause of worldwide disability, behind only heart disease, and that depression is already the single leading cause of disability for people in midlife and for women of all ages.

The WHO also ranks depression, in its degree of severity for individual victims, ahead of "Down syndrome, deafness, below-the-knee amputation, and angina." But Horwitz and Wakefield cogently argue that those judgments rest on a failure to distinguish properly between major depression, which is indeed devastating for its sufferers, and lesser episodes of sadness. If so, the WHO would appear to have bought Big Pharma's [major pharmaceutical companies] line of goods.

This isn't to say that people who experience infrequent minor depression without long-term dysfunction aren't sick enough to deserve treatment. Of course they are. But as all three of the books under consideration here attest, the pharmaceutical companies haven't so much answered a need as turbocharged it. And because self-reporting is the only means by which nonpsychotic mental ailments come to notice, a wave of induced panic may wildly inflate the epidemiological numbers, which will then drive the funding of public health campaigns to combat the chosen affliction.”
Regards, Pronto

 

[nioka]

Sometimes I feel our expectations of life are too high. It's just not realistic to be happy all the time. Bad stuff happens and it's reasonable to feel distressed about that. And sadness and grief are normal parts of an ordinary life.

I'm sure that this is the case 75% of the time. Not accepting this leads to "real" depression in lots of cases. In my case accepting this was a way out that antidepressents did not fix. Just pointing this out plus showing that others are much worse off can help in lots of cases.

 

[Julia]

Pronto, thanks for providing the literature which appears to endorse what I was trying to say. Let's never underestimate the power of the multinational pharmaceutical companies. I've worked for several of them.

 

[cuttlefish]

Julia thats a very tough story of your own that you describe above.

As for the medical profession I really think that the whole medical system is very bad at simple compassion. I found that the anti-depressents were pushed strongly with no real explanation as to why or how they would work and no time spent actually trying to understand the situation I was in.

I didn't find any of the professionals particularly useful. A volunteer counselling service where they simply listened and not much more was the most helpful, as well as a few very good friends who also simply listened and offered encouragement and support as I worked my own way out of the situation.

 

[Mouse]

I didn't find any of the professionals particularly useful. A volunteer counselling service where they simply listened and not much more was the most helpful, as well as a few very good friends who also simply listened and offered encouragement and support as I worked my own way out of the situation.

Hi,

I found the same thing. I've been diagnosed with agoraphobia/depression, and I found the way the medical profession concentrated on what was "wrong" with me was really defeating and made me worse. The same with well meaning friends who want to help. They get so caught up with "helping" me that they start seeing me as an illness and not as a person. I remember sitting in a room once with a doctor and my family, they were all discussing what I should do ... and they left me completely out of the conversation.

The people who have helped most are the ones who just accept me, with all my quirks, and let me get on with the job of getting better.

The hardest part of dealing with the illness has been dealing with other peoples perceptions of it.

cheers
Mouse

 

[cuttlefish]

Hi,

I found the same thing. I've been diagnosed with agoraphobia/depression, and I found the way the medical profession concentrated on what was "wrong" with me was really defeating and made me worse. The same with well meaning friends who want to help. They get so caught up with "helping" me that they start seeing me as an illness and not as a person. I remember sitting in a room once with a doctor and my family, they were all discussing what I should do ... and they left me completely out of the conversation.

The people who have helped most are the ones who just accept me, with all my quirks, and let me get on with the job of getting better.

The hardest part of dealing with the illness has been dealing with other peoples perceptions of it.

cheers
Mouse

Yeah its a bit odd how people that have known you your whole life can jump into treating you like a basket case when you go through a difficult time. One of the positive benefits of these experiences is that you learn a lot about yourself and about other people - in particular sometimes those closest to you can be a complete pain in the ar*se even though they're just trying to help!

 

[wayneL]

FYI, I spotted this article in todays paper. Could this be true?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article3434486.ece

From The Times
February 26, 2008
Depression drugs don’t work, finds data review
Prozac
David Rose

Millions of people taking commonly prescribed antidepressants such as Prozac and Seroxat might as well be taking a placebo, according to the first study to include unpublished evidence.

The new generation of antidepressant drugs work no better than a placebo for the majority of patients with mild or even severe depression, comprehensive research of clinical trials has found.

The researchers said that the drug was more effective than a placebo in severely depressed patients but that this was because of a decreased placebo effect.

The study, described as “fantastically important” by British experts, comes as the Government publishes plans to help people to manage depression without popping pills.

* Depression: your questions answered

* Dr Thomas Stuttaford answers your questions on antidepressants and Prozac

* Dr Thomas Stuttaford answers your questions on depression and therapy

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More than £291 million was spent on antidepressants in 2006, including nearly £120 million on SSRIs. As many as one in five people suffers depression at some point. With that in mind, ministers will today publish plans to train 3,600 therapists to treat depression. Spending on counselling and other psychological therapies will rise to at least £30 million a year.

The study, by Irving Kirsch, from the Department of Psychology at the University of Hull, is the first to examine both published and unpublished evidence of the effectiveness of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), which account for 16 million NHS prescriptions a year. It suggests that the effectiveness of the drugs may have been exaggerated in the past by drugs companies cherry-picking the best results for publication.

The National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE), which is due to review its guidance on treating depression, said that it would consider the study.

Mental health charities say that most GPs admit that they are still overprescribing SSRIs, which are considered as effective as older drugs but with fewer side-effects. SSRIs account for more than half of all antidrepressant prescriptions, despite guidelines from NICE in 2004 that they should not be used as a first-stop remedy.

American and British experts led by Professor Kirsch examined the clinical trials submitted to gain licences for four commonly used SSRIs, including fluoxetine (better known as Prozac), venlafaxine (Efexor) and paroxetine (Seroxat).

The study is published today in the journal PLoS (Public Library of Science) Medicine. Analysing both the unpublished and published data from the trials, the team found little evidence that the drugs were much better than a placebo.

“Given these results there seems little reason to prescribe antide-pressant medication to any but the most severely depressed patients, unless alternative treatments have failed,” Professor Kirsch said. “The difference in improvement between patients taking placebos and patients taking antidepressants is not very great. This means that depressed people can improve without chemical treatments.” He added that the study “raises serious issues that need to be addressed surrounding drug licensing and how drug trial data is reported”.

The data for all 47 clinical trials for the drugs were released by the US Food and Drug Administration under freedom of information rules. They included unpublished trials that were not made available to NICE when it recommended the drugs for use on the NHS. “Had NICE seen all the relevant unpublished studies, it might have come to a different conclusion,” Professor Kirsch said.

Tim Kendall, a deputy director of the Royal College of Psychiatrists Research Unit, who helped to formulate the NICE guidance, said that the findings were “fantastically important” and that it was “dangerous” for drug companies not to have to publish their full data. He added: “Three of these drugs are some of the most commonly used antidepressants in this country. It’s not mandatory for drug companies to publish all this research. I think it should be.”

SSRIs are not prescribed to patients under 18 because of the risk of suicide.Drugs watchdogs in Europe are considering tighter controls on the development of new medicines, The Times reported this month, and may soon require regulators to monitor psychiatric effects and the risk of suicide more closely during clinical trials.

A spokesman for GlaxoSmithKline, which makes Seroxat, said: “The authors have failed to acknowledge the very positive benefits these treatments have provided to patients and their families dealing with depression and their conclusions are at odds with what has been seen in actual clinical practice. This one study should not be used to cause unnecessary alarm and concern for patients.”

A spokesman for Eli Lilly, which makes Prozac, said: “Extensive scientific and medical experience has demonstrated that fluoxetine i an effective antidepressant.”

 

[kransky]

I would like to suggest healthy (raw veg/fruit/nuts) eating and lots of exercise.. it takes time but the fog over your life does slowly lift

 

[chops_a_must]

FYI, I spotted this article in todays paper. Could this be true?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article3434486.ece

It is definitely true.

The new generation Anti-deps are largely ineffective. There is only 4 or 5 (aside from tricyclics, prozac being one of 5) that I know of that actually work at a statistically significant level above the placebo rate. Tricyclics are actually very effective, but very old, so they are all generic, hence, no money. Same with prozac... more effective than just about any new anti-dep.

Most I think would actually be worse than a placebo. But the companies get around all this by saying it helps with anxiety, sleep... blah blah blah.

For anyone interested, as I mentioned earlier, I've begun taking Lamotrigine. I'm on the full dose now, and I've found it brilliant. Apart from crazy lucid dreams, which are quite entertaining, no side effects - and I usually get them all.

Anyone with depression that hasn't responded well to other medications, or who has a tendency for random unexplained mood crashes, it's worth a shot - I'd recommend trying it. It is a little expensive though, but for me it is well worth it.

Cheers.

 

[Julia]

The new generation Anti-deps are largely ineffective. There is only 4 or 5 (aside from tricyclics, prozac being one of 5) that I know of that actually work at a statistically significant level above the placebo rate. Tricyclics are actually very effective, but very old, so they are all generic, hence, no money. Same with prozac... more effective than just about any new anti-dep.

Chops, Prozac is included in the 'ineffective' group.

I think the main problem with the tricyclics was their side effects (anticholinergic effects such as dry mouth, reduced perspiration, urinary retention, constipation, sedation), and that was largely why when the SSRI's became available many people changed.
There was also the class of anti depressants called monoamine oxidase inhibitors which were pretty much a last resort because of potential toxic interactions with other drugs and foods such as cheese.

It's a very interesting report and calls into question just how much the effectiveness of these antidepressants can in fact be attributed to the belief by patients that this drug is going to improve the way they feel.