Coping with mental illness and depression

[jman2007]

Hi all,

This is a really sensitive subject for a lot of people, especially for those who have been down this path, such as myself. I would understand if those of you who have experienced it might not want to talk about it, but I figured I would at least try to broach the subject on ASF, since there seem to be some good people on the forum.

I think the recent high profile and public admission from NZ cricketer Lou Vincent that he is battling depression, and Shaun Taits unusual withdrawal from the game made me realise that mental illness knows no bounds, and can affect anyone.

Well during May last year I was diagnosed with depression. At first I first I thought I was just having some "bad" days and was feeling a bit "stressed out", and that I would soon regain my old zing. I guess it was a combination of things that led up to it in hindsight. I had just moved to WA at the start of 2007, started a new job and realised I wasn't coping very well. I was having problems with people at my old work, and was frustrated at my lack of social networking success at the time. I picked up cigarettes thinking they would relax me but it didn't help, and I was having problems sleeping and became very moody. I became aware of a horrible crushing sensation developing around me, and that I was in the bottom of some dark hole with no way out. At this point I had no idea what was happening to me.

It all came to a head one night when I was out ordering a pizza, and basically just collapsed in the shop, my body completely gave out on me. I was taken my ambo to hospital, absolutely terrified. When I was discharged and went home the next day, I basically just stayed in bed for a week, not wanting to talk to anyone, and only leaving my room for occassional meals. After 1 week, I tried to go out and do normal things such as go to the supermarket and the movies, but suffered severe panic attacks when trying to interact with people in very basic ways, such as paying the bill at the checkout.

It was at this point I realised something was very wrong with me and decided I had to get help. I talked through with my doctor what was happening to me, and he recommended I get counselling, and start a course of medication. The next few weeks were terrible, the side-effects from the drugs unpredictable and work increasingly hard to deal with. I gave one days notice and resigned due to health reasons and took 3 weeks off. Little by little, I began to come out of my shell again, I didn't do much, just started getting a little exercise here and there, but began to be able to hold converstions with people again.

After about a month I felt sufficiently improved to be able to look for work again, and managed to do so rather easily, much more so than I would have thought. Now, 8 months or so later, I still love my job, and am geting regular exercise and I feel I am making huge progress. I used to be a fanatical mountain biker, rock climber and mountaineer, and I'm currently training towards completing a solo alpine route in the Alps in NZ this winter. I think once I accomplish this goal, I will be able to say I am back to my old self with a degree of confidence that was completely lacking last year.

Looking back, that dark period in my life was one of the hardest and scariest things I ever went through. I still find it hard to talk about it, but perhaps sharing it with others through writing about it will be easier. One of the things I thought when I was ill, was that there was no-one who could help me and who could understand what I was going through. But now I understand that there are a lot of people who struggle with this in silence, fighting their own battles, and if you are...well I understand, because I've been there too.

Cheers
jman

(PS On a lighter note, when I was diagnosed with depression I joined ASF, I hope there is no connection here! (joke LOL!))

 

[barrett]

Good on you for sharing your experience jman, that takes some guts. Most people affected haven't come to terms/resolved these issues like you have, your post can turn some lives around. This is the right place to talk about it too, these issues are unusually common among market traders (read an article on this last year, will try and find the link). Jesse Livermore the best known example of course, greatest trader of all time etc..
I have helped two partners and two relatives with mental health challenges ranging from mild to very serious. At least anxiety and depression can be treated and back to normal.. the main thing is for people to put their hand up. Cheers

 

[2BAD4U]

The two things that helped me were talking about it (admitting the problem) and exercise. That was about 10 years ago and every now and again the problems start to come up again but the difference is this time I know what's happening so I deal with it better, but not always as sometimes there might be something new to deal with or something that you react to in a way you never have before.

Haven't been on medication for about 9 years now and when things do get bad I go for a run or bike ride.

Well done jman, this thread shows you are well down the path to recovery but it will be a long journey but you will be prepared for any of the bad times now.

 

[Happy]

I do not want to trivialise the issue, but noticed that exercise was mentioned as part of the solution to recovery.

So prevention could be the same, just bit of exercise as good start.

Maybe topped up with good diet, maybe supported by good life habits like trying to avoid any bad habits.

 

[moneyslave]

so is depression a mental illness?

cause im depressed because of my stocks n to be told im also mentally ill is terrorific

 

[Trembling Hand]

cause im depressed because of my stocks n to be told im also mentally ill is terrorific

Yes but at least you can sell out of your depression the real stuff is a little harder to deal with I would think.

 

[SGB]

so is depression a mental illness?

cause im depressed because of my stocks n to be told im also mentally ill is terrorific

The DSM-IV diagnosis for major depression requires the presence of five of the following symptoms for at least two weeks.

-Sad, depressed mood, most of the day, nearly every day.

-Loss of interest and pleasure in usual activities.

-Loss of energy, having fatigue.

-Poor appetite and weight loss, or increased appetite and weight gain.

-Loss of concentration, such as slowed thinking and indecisiveness.

-Shift in activity level, becoming either lethargic or agitated.

-Difficulties in sleeping; not falling asleep initially, not returning to sleep after awakening in the middle of the night, and early morning awakenings; or in some individuals, a desire to sleep a great deal of time.

-Negative self concept; self approach and self blame; feeling of worthlessness and guit.

-Recurrent thoughts of death or suicide.

Some of the Treatments that are currently available for Major Depression include,

Physical treatment: Medication, Electroconvulsive Therapy ( extreme cases)

Psychotherapy: Cognitive Behaviour Therapy (popular), Interpersonal Therapy, Existentialism, Psychoanalytic (Freud) Gastalt, Family Systems Therapy and so on.

Hospitalisation: Severe Depression, Intentional harm to self and others.

Community: Support groups, self help education.

 

[noirua]

Spike Milligan was a comedian, writer and musician. He often visited Australia and appeared in programmes "The Idiot Weekly" and "Bobby Limb". A suspension bridge linking Woy Woy and Gosford, NSW Central Coast, was named after him.

Spike Milligan was known as a manic depressive and suffered with bipolar disorder most of his life. He suffered at least ten major mental breakdowns, several lasting longer than a year.

He described his illness as: "I have got so low I have asked to be hospitalised and for deep narcosis (sleep).
I cannot stand being awake. The pain is too much...
Someting has happened to me, this vital spark has stopped burning - I go to the dinner table now and I don't say a word, just sit there like a dodo.
Normally I am the centre of attention and keep the conversation going - so that is depression itself.
It's like another person taking over, very strange.
The most important thing I say is "good evening" and then go quiet."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_Milligan

 

[korrupt_1]

Great thread!

Thumbs up for sharing your experience. I'm sure there are some reading this forum who maybe in depression but have not realised it... maybe reading your post will trigger to them that they should get some help.

Let me share mine..., I was fairly depressed and lost when i was forced to close a significant amount of holdings for a big loss last August. i was in denial for a few days afterwards, but eventually, I knew I had a mild problem when I started to get really withdrawn from the things around me. Didn't talk much, called in sick all the time, couldn't eat or sleep, felt like the biggest loser to walk the planet, I was snappy at people, and my work was really not up to scratch. What made it worse was that the market eventually recovered and i would have been square - It just compounded my problems. I blamed God for my demise and hated everything. Things were going down hill fast!

I never got professional help, but the fact that I realised what was happening to me, I snapped out of it - cold turkey style... it just hit me one day and said... I can't go on like this anymore... at first, I accepted everything that has happened to me and knew that things could get worse if I didn't do something... alot was on the line (family, life, etc...)

I guess the first step into recovery is realising the problems...

I'm ok now,... back to 99% of my old self. The one thing that really helped me was my baby son... everytime I look at him, all my worries goes and he lights up my life like a beacon of hope...

 

[Kimosabi]

For anyone suffering with Depression or any other disease for that matter, I would recommend that they switch to Raw Fruit and Veges, preferably organic, get some spirulina and chlorella and Nutritional Yeast or non-active Saccharomyces cervisiae Nutritional Yeast if you can get it which is chockers full or Bioavailable B Vitamins.

Juicing is best or blend fruit/veges adding the spirulina, chlorella and yeast to the brew and chug it down in the morning.

Also start drinking steam distilled water, which will help leach all of the inorganic minerals that have built up in your body.

Do the above for a week or two, it may make you feel worse initially, but this is because your body is detoxing, but after a week or two you'll start to feeling great, you'll start loosing weight, you'll start feeling lighter and you'll start feeling younger, do the above for a few months and you'll start feeling great.

I'd also recommend doing your Colon, Liver, Kidney, Gall Bladder, etc cleanses to help your body get rid of the crap that has been building up in your body which is contribution to sickness and depression.

Also, don't forget exercise and get out in the sun, the sun is great for your body.

For more info go here ==> http://members.tripod.com/healingtools/DS_pages.html

Now before anyone starts bleeting that I don't know what I'm talking about, I've done the above and I personally lost 10 kg's in 6 weeks (100 - 90kg's) on the fruit/vege/superfood blends. I have been off all Pharma Drugs including Asthma Medications which I had been dependant on for 30 year and I feel about 5 years younger.

The key to beating ALL Disease including Depression is eating Locally Grown, Raw Organic Fruit and Vegetables.

Now as far as anti-depressants are concerned, I would avoid them like the plague. They are some nasty ****.

At the end of the day you've got to do your own research and make your own decisions, I'm just passing on what's worked for me.

 

[Pager]

Its not only the person suffering from depression that’s affected often it has an impact on their whole family.

I grew up with a father who suffered from depression, to see someone sink so low and withdraw for no apparent reason is very hard, you feel helpless at times and to a degree they may not realize it but they pull you down with them, he pulled out of it or maybe more to the point came to terms with it and didn’t let it take control, took a while but to all those who suffer from the black dog as Winston Churchill called it, he himself a sufferer, don’t give up, it can be overcome not in hours or days but sometimes it can take years.

Thankfully in my adult life ive had no problems with depression, been through some fairly bleak times in the market and had the feelings a lot of us get when the market is going down, bad luck, everything is against me, wanting to give up etc etc, remember too well when Sons of Gwalia went belly up, at the time I lost the equivalent of 6 months salary and felt physically sick when I heard it had gone under, was at my lowest then and was all set to throw in the towel, actually stopped trading and investing totally and left the shares I was holding were they were, fortunately a few years on and I had made it all back and considerably more., time is a great healer, trading in shares, futures options can be very rewarding but with that reward comes risk and I think everyone of us who partakes in the market is going to get stung at some point.

In the current shake out im waiting for the suspended Allco finance to report amid rumors its in serious trouble, this time im prepared for the worse and if the worse happens then I will take a significant hit and I will just have to get over it, that’s life and im not alone there’s a string of stocks and no doubt plenty of people that have been slammed and no doubt feeling the blues, Centro, Credit Corp. etc etc, not too mention all those who have had margin calls and are way out of pocket.

If you are caught, easy to say but dont let the black dog get control.

 

[nioka]

When the world wearies and life doesn't satisfy there is always the garden.( and it works).

 

[jman2007]

Good on you for sharing your experience jman, that takes some guts. Most people affected haven't come to terms/resolved these issues like you have, your post can turn some lives around. This is the right place to talk about it too, these issues are unusually common among market traders (read an article on this last year, will try and find the link). Jesse Livermore the best known example of course, greatest trader of all time etc..
I have helped two partners and two relatives with mental health challenges ranging from mild to very serious. At least anxiety and depression can be treated and back to normal.. the main thing is for people to put their hand up. Cheers

Thanks for the feedback Barrett,

Thankfully no-one in my family has suffered depression in the past (not that I know of anyway), which I imagine would have been a massive strain on yourself, your partner(s) and close relatives.

I never really considered traders to be more susceptible than other working-type people, but you may well be right, in a high pressure environment we sometimes try to put our work ahead of our own well-being. One thing I have learnt from it is to be thankful of the things we normally take for granted, such as my health, both mental and physical. Because if you don't have good health, everything in your life will suffer.

Cheers
jman

 

[annalivia]

Now as far as anti-depressants are concerned, I would avoid them like the plague. They are some nasty ****.

As a sufferer of Depression I think comments like this shouldn't be thrown around willy nilly.

Depression is a complicated/complex issue that needs to be discussed with the appropriate people. Find a doctor that you like and trust and discuss the pros and cons of anti-depressants with him/her. In my opininion they have their place in treatment but can also sometimes make things worse.

For what it's worth my latest thoughts on the subject are that clinical depression is a disease and should be treated as such.
People with a diseased heart wouldn't stop taking their heart medicine why should people with depression stop taking their anti-depressants if they are helping. Obviously if they are having adverse effects that is another story.

I have been in and out of therapy for years trying to get to the bottom of why I get depressed with no answers. I have a wonderful life and do not have any real reason to get depressed.

I am losing a bit of money at the moment on CCP and don't give a **** as I am not clinically depressed.

Think of your biggest loss on the market and how you felt. Multiply that by 1000 and you might start to get a little close to how clinical depression actually feels.

 

[Nyden]

Yes, I suffer from numerous afflictions.

Depression, Generalized anxiety, Bi-polar, OCD, & to top it off a hint of a personality disorder.

But, it seems to be all intertwined ; as when I feel happy, I'm no longer anxious, obsessive, or malicious.

I have been out of the rough patch for a while now; not as a result of medication (I found it absolutely awful; the side-effects ...), but just eating healthy, not fretting over the future, vitamins & fish oil seems to help (placebo, anyone?

I tried psychotherapy for a while ... didn't find it beneficial, it actually made things worse for me, triggered anger I guess. All of my problems stem from hurt / anger ... awful childhood, I actually envy those who actually feel love for their family, love was an emotion up until recently I had never felt!

For well over 6 years I wanted to die, I guess you could say I tried a couple of times as well; yeah, life hasn't been all that swell!

For those who have seen my usual posts, you'll be shocked to see me talking seriously! : Humour has always been a mask to hide the sad feelings, even though I'm no longer really sad ... I guess the humour stuck around!

 

[jman2007]

I do not want to trivialise the issue, but noticed that exercise was mentioned as part of the solution to recovery.

So prevention could be the same, just bit of exercise as good start.

Maybe topped up with good diet, maybe supported by good life habits like trying to avoid any bad habits.

Interesting Happy,

I have heard from some health professionals that regular exercise over the long-term can have the same health effects as the most potent anti-depressant on the market, open to debate probably. I am also trying to eat a lot of veges and fresh fruit, and avoid overly processed foods.

jman

 

[Spaghetti]

I had a rough patch though was triggered by a trauma. I was on some medication for about 5 weeks then my doctor said "get over it". The counsellor that spoke to me was appalled at what had happened to me and re-inforced my excuse to continue into depression. So I am with Nyden on that. Counselling can be negative. It would depend on case by case but in my case the best advise ( after adequate time to heal ) was from the doctor. Get over it. I thought yes, so started to paint the house, quit my job (cause of stress), took a long holiday and considered my mental health instead of my financial health for the first time in many years.

The doctor said we all have fight or flight re-action to trauma and I had fight. However this inbuilt mechanism was for humans in caveman days when fight would be over when either you killed the scary mega beast or it killed you. Humans have not yet adapted to ongoing stress from modern life where you can be in a stress state for years. Very unhealthy.

So I eat well now, still maybe too many wines but at least they have a side of fish and vegetables.

I try to do something for the first time as often as I can. I have had some great experiences and some very rewarding ones from this. I would never have guessed how exciting my life would become a few years ago.

Dogs, I will always have a dog from now on. They are great for mental and physical health unless you are aggressive type then poor dog..maybe get a pet rock lol.

Still trying to get over some procrastination though, maybe look into that tomorrow.

But mentall health issues, just look around. Everyone seems to be stressed these days and to be honest not sure I could say many people I know are truly well balanced.

 

[chops_a_must]

I had just moved to WA at the start of 2007, started a new job and realised I wasn't coping very well.

Well, that’s your first mistake. : WA seems to bring out any little bend people have in their minds.

Seriously though, I have written about this in depth here before. I’ve had to deal with severe depression for all of my adult life, but now at least I get to deal with some of the opposite as well… which is another story.

I find that most people who suffer depression, are either dealing with some kind of trauma, be it self imposed or otherwise, and or an identity/ existential crisis. The chemical side of it, I think, is overplayed. If someone can’t walk properly, can’t talk or slurs, is very slow with eye movement, alongside being depressed, then that is a chemical depression and is the psycho-motor retardation handed out to the most unfortunate sufferers. I still think the above two factors play a big role in it leading to that however.

My own situation was fairly unique I think, in that I was a child prodigy. But thanks to my body, poor medical advice, an incompetent surgeon, incompetent physios and a moronic parent, my life outlook changed pretty quickly. I was a bit luckier than my brother, who was nearly at the top of his sport as an adult, before his body also chucked it in. So between the ages of 16 and 18 I had to save up to see a surgeon, who told me that if I had come in with that even as a 12 year old, it would have needed surgery. But of course the damage was already done and all the opportunities had passed.

It sucks because there are constant reminders for me on the TV and in newspapers, and developing something for yourself is hard, when you have been groomed your entire life to be something else. An expectation that has been there for 10 years doesn’t suddenly go away. It’s why I am now constantly questioning, annoying, and never leaving things alone, because I don’t take anything at face value, and don’t like leaving anything unchallenged, especially to do with people in authority and the sycophants following them.

It’s also why I have complete and utter disdain for people like Ben Cousins and his followers, even though completely different sports. He doesn’t know how lucky he is. He doesn’t know what people would do to get to where he has. And to give up what he has, for what? To take drugs? Is completely affronting. Anyone can take drugs, hell, I can take drugs. But I’m not a loser; that’s a loser. The very definition of it. I am successful (although I have a hard time believing it) simply because I have been able to make a life outside of what I thought was going to be mine.

On a practical note, I have listed these before. The most useful meds in their success rates, statistically and from my own observation on people and in hospitals are: lexapro, effexor and fluoxetine. If you can handle the side effects and don’t drink, lexapro and effexor are good. If you are like me, and you can’t see the point in not having a good time if you get down, then the fluoxetine is best.

I’m also on lamictil at the moment, which is expensive as it’s not on the PBS. But if it stops me from having random crashes, then it will be worth it. I’ll see how it pans out, because it takes ages to get to full dosage, but so far so good.

The stock market has been great for my brain, oddly enough. Constant, gentle, mental stimulation. Has been great for me to realise that despite doing everything I can correctly, that sometimes negative outcomes happen, that are not my fault at all.

Cheers,
Chops.

 

[MRC & Co]

Good thread!

Definately nothing to hide from! Though I have never suffered depression myself, I used to deal with it on a daily basis for several years. My dad actually suffered it so severely that he would lye in bed for days on end. Sometimes I would turn up in the driveway, and I could hear him crying like a baby on the other side of the house, probably 30 metres away!

Sadly, the only way it ended for him, was actually by taking his own life a few years ago now. Horrible, horrible thing to be part of.

Only things I can say really (or even take from it), is to always find what you love doing (or even like, obviously the stockmarket for most here) and just keep making sure you keep doing those things. Dont let yourself slip into the pits where you end up sleeping the days away and not surfacing from the bedroom. Balance your life well, as far as sports/exercise (which are what I find stimulates me the most), friends, work, the lot.

Another thing is to see the bright side of life (as hard as that is for people stuck in the hole). But remember the probability of you being alive is probably one the human mind cannot even comprehend. The chance of the formation of the earth even being able to sustain life (from its distance from the sun, size of the sun, composition of the earth (I mean even the iron core to create the shield from the sun burning us to a crisp), all the details of human civilisation even enabling you to be here), it is just statistically, nearly IMPOSSIBLE you are alive! I like the analogy, its like going into your garage, throwing around the tools and a car appearing (cant remember which one, but a very famous mathematician said that himself). They are the chances of you being here, so you might as well enjoy it! You got INCREDIBLY lucky!

Bit of a rant, but thought I would share. So much love in the world, from family, friends, even strangers, that I just find it so hard to beleive someone would end their own life! There is always hope and so many things to do in this world, that its so worthwhile actually LIVING it! Remember, life is what happens to you while you are busy planning or analysing other things!

Cheers

 

[wayneL]

Thanks for the perspective peeps.

I think we all get depressed sometimes; it's a pretty awful feeling and it's sobering to hear the stories of folks with clinical depression, that it is worse by magnitudes.

The fact that everybody does suffer "bouts" of depression (shall be call this normal depression?) probably makes it hard to understand actual clinical depression, and engenders the "get over it" response.

That's what we all do, just snap out of it.

I must admit to being in the "get over it" crew a long time ago, until I went through a period of what may have been clinical depression (never saw anyone about it). This has changed my view big time... and it was pretty mild compared to what some folks have described.

Exercise certainly does help me when I start feeling a bit ratty, and I think the empirical evidence of a good healthy diet is established now.

But I wonder how much the medja contributes to depression in society with the constant barrage of negativity. E.G. the constant twaddle about GW. Why should young people have hope for the future when they are constantly told of impending doom.

I remember when I first saw "Threads" (a movie about the effects of nuclear conflgration) I was depressed for days... and probably the closest I've ever been to that place where the clinically depressed go. It actually felt like I was on some sort of drug.

So could binning the flipping TV and most news reporting help? I mean, someone will tell you if something important is going on. But why absorb every mishap that occurs anywhere in the world? Why do we want to know all that crap?

The truth is, it's mostly BS. Sure we gotta do something about the problems in the world, but the sensationalization of all these things is truly evil IMO.

Anyway, just some ramblings on a beautiful sunny day when I really should be outside. ('cept it's still only -2 at nearly 10AM ).

Cheers