Convert to Islam...

[wayneL]

...or die. change my mind.

This will be the reality in the coming years unless the West does something, soon

 

[StockyGuy]

Lol - controversy-hunting Wayne, as always. I think there is a very small portion of native British men drawn to it voluntarily - as a reflex against the diminution of the straight male's status in all things. An Islamic West would at least be saved from wokeism, ironically enough as it's the wokies with the big "refugees welcome" signs.

 

[wayneL]

Lol - controversy-hunting Wayne, as always. I think there is a very small portion of native British men drawn to it voluntarily - as a reflex against the diminution of the straight male's status in all things. An Islamic West would at least be saved from wokeism, ironically enough as it's the wokies with the big "refugees welcome" signs.

Controversy hunting?

The controversy is sitting there, staring us down, and daring anybody to actually mention what is in front of our very eyes, if they are open.

 

[Sean K]

It's the religion of peace, Wayne.

The moderates do need to take their religion back from the extremists, if that's possible.

Was Christianity ever violent extremist? The Crusades? Witch hunts (I think that was about climate change). Western Colonialism during the 1500-1700s was pretty heavy on converting the indigenous to Jesus in order to save them.

Maybe Islamic Extremism is a phase in the grand scheme of things, or has it been an historically consistent part of the religion? I guess most of the Islamic empires through history were established by the sword.

 

[wayneL]

It's the religion of peace, Wayne.

The moderates do need to take their religion back from the extremists, if that's possible.

Was Christianity ever violent extremist? The Crusades? Witch hunts (I think that was about climate change). Western Colonialism during the 1500-1700s was pretty heavy on converting the indigenous to Jesus in order to save them.

Maybe Islamic Extremism is a phase in the grand scheme of things, or has it been an historically consistent part of the religion? I guess most of the Islamic empires through history were established by the sword.

It is true that Christianity in general does have an inglorious history of violence.

The crusades were a bit of a mixed bag, partly attack against violent Islamic expansionism, but also Intel some pretty dreadful stuff as well.

The inquisition was absolutely inexcusable and a blot on history and they are of course many other examples where "Christianity" can be roundly criticised for its actions.

I would argue that many things are unbiblical and really nothing to do with the true Vine of Christianity.

It is true that Christianity is a proselytizing religion, but it is about witnessing rather than force. Force is unbiblical.

It's actually a very long and complex conversation regarding this and I really can't type fast enough to talk about all of the issues.

Indeed as if I have detailed elsewhere on this forum, I am a dissenter from mainstream Christianity on more than one ground and disavow the established churches. Given several hours and several beers I could and would be happy to have a conversation about that.

In that conversation I would argue that those actions were based on powerplays and ignorance rather than legitimate doctrine.

Islam on the other hand embraces the spread of Islam via force and the evidence of this is found in both the Quran and Hadith.

It is not a religion of peace it is a religion of fatwah and jihad.

 

[Sean K]

It is true that Christianity in general does have an inglorious history of violence.

The crusades were a bit of a mixed bag, partly attack against violent Islamic expansionism, but also Intel some pretty dreadful stuff as well.

The inquisition was absolutely inexcusable and a blot on history and they are of course many other examples where "Christianity" can be roundly criticised for its actions.

I would argue that many things are unbiblical and really nothing to do with the true Vine of Christianity.

It is true that Christianity is a proselytizing religion, but it is about witnessing rather than force. Force is unbiblical.

It's actually a very long and complex conversation regarding this and I really can't type fast enough to talk about all of the issues.

Indeed as if I have detailed elsewhere on this forum, I am a dissenter from mainstream Christianity on more than one ground and disavow the established churches. Given several hours and several beers I could and would be happy to have a conversation about that.

In that conversation I would argue that those actions were based on powerplays and ignorance rather than legitimate doctrine.

Islam on the other hand embraces the spread of Islam via force and the evidence of this is found in both the Quran and Hadith.

It is not a religion of peace it is a religion of fatwah and jihad.

Yes, agree with all that. I failed to mention the inquisition, no one expects that now.

I do wonder if the nasty side of Christianity could come back one day. The Old Testament is pretty wild, especially deuteronomy. While the New Testament is all happy clappy Jesus stuff, the old book is..... biblical.

 

[SirRumpole]

I do wonder if the nasty side of Christianity could come back one day. The Old Testament is pretty wild, especially deuteronomy. While the New Testament is all happy clappy Jesus stuff, the old book is..... biblical.

"7 When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you— 2 and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally.[a] Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. 3 Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, 4 for they will turn your children away from following me to serve other gods, and the Lord’s anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you. 5 This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles[b] and burn their idols in the fire. 6 For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession."

Dueteronomy 7.

Of course, Dueteronomy is in the Old Testament, which is for Jews not Christians (there is a distinction) and one can see a parallel between this teaching and what the Jews are doing in Gaza.

So if the Biblical teachings are being used as a justification for killing civilians. Islam is not the only religion of hate.

 

[wayneL]

People would do well to actually subscribe to some genuine biblical scholarship. That is to say investigating what the words actually say and mean.

*Scholarship not theocracy, data over dogma.

Such a study reveals some very interesting things which contradict much theology. Again that is a very long conversation. For now I still have some work to do, so.... later.

 

[SirRumpole]

People would do well to actually subscribe to some genuine biblical scholarship. That is to say investigating what the words actually say and mean.

*Scholarship not theocracy, data over dogma.

Such a study reveals some very interesting things which contradict much theology. Again that is a very long conversation. For now I still have some work to do, so.... later.

Words in religious texts usually mean what the readers or their teachers want them to mean. Multiple interpretations are possible to suit particular causes.

 

[Sean K]

Words in religious texts usually mean what the readers or their teachers want them to mean. Multiple interpretations are possible to suit particular causes.

This is important in that the written words in the 'religions of the book' were relevant during a particular place and time.

Now, aaaaaaah, maybe not so much.

 

[orr]

People would do well to actually subscribe to some genuine biblical scholarship.

*Scholarship not theocracy, data over dogma.

whineL:
So you are familiar, possably? with Barbra Thiering's "Jesus the Man" ??... and all that dead sea scrolls pull apart: and have'n a look at what might of been going on back then.... I have it in hard cover, had it for some time, First edition... you carn't be a 'psuedo'(sic); without this sort of stuff.

For me it just added further weight to the late bronze-early iron age superstitions of the era... And not much chance of cure's for cancer or understandind sub-atomic particels there ..... So lay on as many mirAcle's and lay on as many hands you like.

Sorry I carn't help those with the existential angst of non-existence.
My concerns are for those who are currently expiencning existence.
And converting or not converting to anything isn't going to help... except for those with exisential- angst. So ? if that what it takes? go for it.

Bertrand Russell( and many others)... I salute you... and thanks Bern, I'm make'n good use of the 'teapot'...

 

[wayneL]

Words in religious texts usually mean what the readers or their teachers want them to mean. Multiple interpretations are possible to suit particular causes.

Words in religious texts usually mean what the readers or their teachers want them to mean. Multiple interpretations are possible to suit particular causes.

Fact check: True.

This is what I find absolutely fascinating about biblical scholarship, Horace.

Once again, this is another very long conversation, but scholarship in the first instance it seeks to improve the translations from the texts of the original languages.

Secondly it seeks to determine the authenticity of the various texts as to their attribution and whether they have been added to or corrupted.

Theologians and apologists make the assumption of both univocality inerrancy of the texts, rice in the vast majority of cases, scholarshesip rejects both.

The Bible contains so many contradictions and implausibilities that it requires the reader to negotiate with the text to either include or reject important tenets, according to the current culture.

The Bible is not a book of one author, it is a set of books with 88 (IIRC) authors over more a thousand years.

Scholarship offers ample material for both ecumenical Christians such as myself and indeed atheists to support their individual positions. It doesn't support theological dogma and exposes post biblical innovations, of which they are several.

 

[wayneL]

I see (B)orr has made an entrance with another indecipherable word salad without any overarching point, apart from to trying to have a dig.

B(orr)ing

 

[Dona Ferentes]

“Islam is using the freedoms of democracy to destroy it.”
Baroness Cox, member of the House of Lords, warned Israeli audience about the growing threat of political Islam in Britain and Africa back in 2014.
“It is time to draw a line in the sand and say enough is enough.”
.
...recently, as there are a few scarfed ones in the House of Lords, she asked if they'd be interested in removing their get-ups for a short while in solidarity with women in Muslim dominated countries who were being harassed, killed even, when expressing themselves. All declined.

 

[sptrawler]

Well this is close to home, this Bunnings is about 1km from where the daughter and two grandkids live.

Police shoot dead 'radicalised' 16yo armed with a knife in WA

Police have shot dead a 16-year-old boy who stabbed a member of the public, saying the teenager was "radicalised" online.

www.abc.net.au

 

[SirRumpole]

Well this is close to home, this Bunnings is about 1km from where the daughter and two grandkids live.

Police shoot dead 'radicalised' 16yo armed with a knife in WA

Police have shot dead a 16-year-old boy who stabbed a member of the public, saying the teenager was "radicalised" online.

www.abc.net.au

Well, that's one less potential murderer in the world.

 

[wayneL]

Getting back to my OP:

 

[wayneL]

...and:

 

[StockyGuy]

The hour is very, very late. Hopefully the West is like the lazy student who ignores the hard assignment for a month and then gets the job done the night before with a superhuman effort. A UK under Sharia law would just no longer be a Western nation.

 

[Sean K]

...and:

I think it will get to a point when the Enlightened West says enough is enough.