Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

CMC Markets - anybody else experienced executed trade repudiation?

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Hi,

(This post is being made on behalf of someone else.) Nominally, I'll call him Bob. Apologies if this has been brought up before, I have searched but been unable to find anything regarding this (but perhaps I am using the wrong keywords)

Bob has been using CMC and Marketmaker software for over a year now. Generally, his experience has been pretty good. However, in the past 2 days, 3 trades which were marked as EXECUTED were cancelled (without his notification) and marked as "Price is incorrect: Order cancelled"

Bob is not a full-time professional trader, but he does like to think he has at least a nominal understanding of things. Previously Bob had been led to believe that once a trade was marked as executed, it was basically solid - ie neither he nor CMC could renege on it. Apparently this isn't the case - having rung CMC, they're blaming it on a software error and refusing to honour the trades.

Anyway, this has shaken Bob's confidence in using CMC somewhat. He is extremely uncomfortable in using such a system where there is an inherent uncertainty regarding whether or not executed trades will be honoured. However, as neither of us are veterans, we thought perhaps we had unreasonable expectations founded on a lack of perspective.

So what we want to know is basically, is this sort of user-pays error 'standard practice' regarding online trading systems in general? And if so could anybody provide an explanation into why they occur, towards (we hope) providing a level of assurance that would allow us to continue to trade with confidence.

More details are available regarding the specific transactions if people are interested.
 
Can you advise which instruments?

It does happen, DAX spiked down on CMC by about 50 points 3 times last night.

I'd check the underlying instrument to see what happened there but if it was outside market hours liquidity issues may also be an issue.
 
bvbfan said:
It does happen, DAX spiked down on CMC by about 50 points 3 times last night.

I'd check the underlying instrument to see what happened there but if it was outside market hours liquidity issues may also be an issue.
bvbfan and adante, this also happens with the London BHP Billiton CFDs that I trade through CMC. If you pull up today's graph in 1 minute intervals (candles), you'll see that large spikes have occured about 4 times! :confused: I have no way of checking the underlying market but surely such a liquid stock as BHP has sufficient market depth for this type of thing to not occur. I currently have long CFDs in these CFDs and I'm afraid that one day I'll have a limit order executed, only to see it reversed - similar to Bob's case.
 
bvbfan said:
Can you advise which instruments?

It does happen, DAX spiked down on CMC by about 50 points 3 times last night.

I'd check the underlying instrument to see what happened there but if it was outside market hours liquidity issues may also be an issue.

This was on the GERMAN30.

Are you suggesting liquidity issues could be causing the spikes, or the failure by CMC to honour the purchase?

For the record (just incase there is any misunderstanding) Bob did not have any stop or limit orders that were executed. He made a manual purchase, saw it go through to executed, and show up on the Executed Trades blotter. A little while later it was cancelled, and disappeared from the Executed Trades blotter.
 
Sorry when I said DAX I meant CMC equivalent which is GERMAN30.

When I did see the issue, I doubt liquidity was the error, Europe was already open so the scale of the drop/error was huge.

I'm guessing they still have issues with the programming of the software.

Good luck with trying to sort it out but I wouldn't rate your chances to high
 
Aha, this does come up a lot - what you're experiencing is the difference between Direct Market Access (DMA) and Market Maker (MM) models. I can't speak for any firms in particular, but I've heard a few people complain about the MM model, that the CFD firm has way too much control over the price that you're given.

The most basic explanation I could give is that DMA is like going through a stockbroker, whereas MM is like punting with a bookie. A DMA firm places your trade in the market and then hedges it, making money on the commission you pay - they win whether you win or lose, so they actually have a vested interest in you staying in the game (so you keep trading and keep paying them commission).

On the other hand, the MM firm can do whatever they want to do to make some money, be it to hedge against you in the market, or not do anything if they think you're wrong so that they win when you lose. They have a lot of flexibility over the price that they give you and I have heard grumblings from people that they are disadvantaged with prices when they start doing well. The reason for this is that if you win too much, then they start losing.

Personally there's no way I'd use a MM model, because there's zero transparency - you're basically giving the firm carte blanche to screw you. :2twocents

Just my opinion and I could be wrong about this. If you can prove that this isn't the case I'd be happy to hear it.
 
Flathead
how do you reconcile the underlying price of a stock with the price MM is offering? If a stock is trading at 9.75 and you want to trade on a breakout of prior resistance at 10.25, how do you know what price to set your buy stop at (when you open MM the price quoted might be 10.05)?
Bin :confused:
 
Flathead has said all there really is to say. ie "you're basically giving the firm carte blanche to screw you."

Use a DMA provider - end of debate. Why would you use someone who can set their own prices.

The only advantage I can see with MM, is getting guaranteed stop losses. You don't get this with DMA providers (as far as I'm aware). It would be an idea, and I am considering this, opening an account with MM providers for shorting trades only.
 
joslad said:
The only advantage I can see with MM, is getting guaranteed stop losses. You don't get this with DMA providers (as far as I'm aware). It would be an idea, and I am considering this, opening an account with MM providers for shorting trades only.

That is what I am currently considering, too. I would appreciate for others' experience/comment on CMC market. Thanks in advance.
 
Macquarie Banks CFD model is DMA and they offer GSL's for a price, although not on all stocks.

Cheers.
 
I have been using CMC for over 2 yrs now.On a couple times when there has been glitch has been sorted very quickly.I run sanford screens along side to keep check on prices.(twice have phoned and asked for price check as they where showing couple cents diff.no problem got correct price)
I see a lot of mail regarding "all the problems with MM" but they are OK bye me.
Also the list of stocks available to trade(long and short) start at 3%,reckon that takes some beating.
 
MichaelD said:
Nice way for CMC to make some big $$ don't you think? Competition surely suggests excessive risk taking by the participants. Excessive risk taking = blowing up with CFDs.

Indeed. Very nice.
Are they listed ? LOL
 
And while I'm conspiratorial...since CMC are market makers...what better way to find out what successful traders are doing at the moment than by having them "do their thing" on CMC?

Competition? or Market Research?
 
nizar said:
Indeed. Very nice.
Are they listed ? LOL

I have tried to apply for a CFD account and have been declined! :eek:

I would have thought that my net worth would not have been the issue here. Perhaps they do not consider my time trading shares as being enough experience. Anyone have any ideas on what minimum levels of assets they are looking for?

Cheers,
 
CanOz said:
I have tried to apply for a CFD account and have been declined! :eek:

I would have thought that my net worth would not have been the issue here. Perhaps they do not consider my time trading shares as being enough experience. Anyone have any ideas on what minimum levels of assets they are looking for?

Cheers,

Can't believe you were declined C, Have you tried IG or City Index/Ex Green CFD? ....No problem with either for me .........
 
CanOz said:
I have tried to apply for a CFD account and have been declined! :eek:

I would have thought that my net worth would not have been the issue here. Perhaps they do not consider my time trading shares as being enough experience. Anyone have any ideas on what minimum levels of assets they are looking for?

Cheers,

You can start up an account with $5k so they claim.
Maybe because your based in China? Fraud issues?
Dunno - jus speculating here.
 
CanOz said:
I have tried to apply for a CFD account and have been declined! :eek:

I would have thought that my net worth would not have been the issue here. Perhaps they do not consider my time trading shares as being enough experience. Anyone have any ideas on what minimum levels of assets they are looking for?

Cheers,

Apply through someone else, and tell them what they want to hear...if you know what I mean.
 
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