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Scientific models are indicative, not perfect replications of past or future events. I haven't yet read anything credible from a skeptic that debunks the science of forcing: They instead obscure the issue, or side-track it with their junk science.Like the warmer's reputation is?
C'mon Red, they haven't got anything right with their model and ignore and cherry-pick to an extent that disqualifies it as science altogether, never mind junk science.
The video, scores some major punches in highlighting the true role of IPCC as a political lobby group, the ultimate agenda for which is not fully known, but can only be sinister.
I remain fully satisfied, without a skerick (sic) of doubt, that the IPCC model is utter nonsense and anthropogenic factors in macro climate change completely overblown.
lol... And which scientist spearheaded the notion that CFCs were not a problem? Dr. S. Fred Singer, of course, whos de facto home page is the Science and Environmental Policy Project.
Global Warming: Fact and Myth
by Fred Singer (December 25, 1998)
... multimillion-dollar propaganda campaigns are underway by environmental activists, generously financed by compliant foundations and by government grants
I've followed both sides until now but that one's lost me. How on earth did you come to that conclusion?... and if we clean up our act here, we will directly help a stack of other polluting trends man is responsible for. (plus deforestation, removal of habitat etc)
YesThis argument's like a circle;
smurf1. I've followed both sides until now but that one's lost me. How on earth did you come to that conclusion?
2. By their very nature, non-fossil / nuclear energy sources are less dense and thus involve a far greater volume of physical resources and consequent impact on the environment.
3. The reason we started using coal and oil in the first place was largely due to the huge impact the non-fossil alternatives were having on the trees, whales and so on.
4. And even with the CO2 issue, the mainstream environment movement is still largely about opposing anything other than oil and gas. Try and build a gas-fired power station and even the Greens help rush it through with no environmental assessments and so on. Try using any renewable source and there's a lot more opposition.
5. Personally I would rather some more of the non-CO2 impacts and less fossil fuel use but even I would draw the line well short of damming, wind farming and logging the whole lot. Otherwise we'll end up with no rivers only lakes, no big birds other than in the museum and no native forests just monoculture plantations.
6. All that would help a lot with the CO2 and it represents exactly what we'll likely try and do (viable renewable energy at this time being mostly wood, hydro and wind) but it's not going to help the planet in any other way.
:topic ?... and not a bloody word on the other real and more imminent environmental problems we face, some of which are mentioned on this thread (bees, north pacific rubbish tip etc).
Yes, we need urgent action, but focused elsewhere, with the ultimate by-product of reduced CO2 emissions.
100million bees disappear from Taiwan - Hawaii going the same way
"When I saw that mite ( on a bee in Hawaii) I knew exactly what it meant, and I fell to my knees and wept"
I think scale is the thing most people really don't get.PS To be honest I even had a bit of a rethink about solar power when NASA's Mars Explorer ran out of power due to wind/dust etc.
Most of those renewable options are toys. If we want current lifestyle and its power requirements, no choice but nuclear in the long term if not in the medium. (imo)
so one Syndey Harbour = 500 GL = 33 houses for 1 year. (call it one street).That's 15 million litres a year just to run one house, not the whole state. And that's assuming the house has a wood fire for heating.
...
One average house. 15 million litres of water a year. Most people just can't comprehend those sort of numbers. It's even worse when you try and explain that total system throughput is 42 trillion litres with 16 trillion litres actual discharge every year.
Thanks for the weather commentary. Good to see the weather is still normal as has been.The sun came up in the East today.
I saw it but was pretty pist.
It was about 4.54 maybe a bit later.
I slept most of the day.
The sun set
Life is good and it is now raining.
The smells of the garden are wafting in , ginger especially.
Isn't life good.
Happy Christmas to all of the Church of Climatology.
Peace be with your short term graphs.
gg
so one Syndey Harbour = 500 GL = 33 houses for 1 year. (call it one street).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Jackson
throughput = 42,000GL ; presumably recycled a couple of times if only 16,000 GL discharge?
say, smurf - in droughts, presumably you discharge less / almost none - even if throughput is constant ?
PS incidentally, we supplied a few nicnacs for Catagunya recently
nonsense nonsense nonsenseYes
You and your ilk can't substantiate a thing.
The theory that you say it often enough so must be true is well rehearsed.
Your put up a video, a report or a link or an article; it's full of holes, but that's ok coz there are plenty more the same, just different.
Garpal seems blind drunk to peripheral populations that are already suffering the small scale impacts of warming due to sea rises (like Bangladesh), or the massive cost the Dutch are facing to preserve their nation.
A few others chip in with irrelevances.
So long as you are comfortable with your beliefs, that seems fine.
And we can't change anything anyway.
So let's do nothing and not worry about anything else, ok?
Do you have a source for your comments on this?Wayne stuck up pictures of Arctic sea ice a while ago, showing there was no problem as there was more this year.
2007 was the record low point for Arctic sea ice, and it's getting thinner and not lasting as long as normal.
What does this really mean? Could you ellaborate please?As a barometer of climate, sea ice is not as good an indicator as land ice.
A very simple reason is because we have different trends at each polar region.
Which helps cool the environment. Perhaps it is a natural defence of warming and it is complicit in helping ice ages.Sea ice does not "control" climate. It does have an impact; and that's largely to reflect the sun's rays.
Any source for this? I am amused at the prediction of this as prediction is rarely correct.Arctic sea ice is on a sure course to melt completely during the summer months: And we are talking within the next decade or two.
SnakeThe main point to remember there is no direct link to man made global warming. Just symptoms of what is yet perfectly unable to be explained.
I'm interested in you being able to follow through on a line of argument, not on what others are doing.This is getting way past boring and ridiculous. You accuse the optimists of what the pessimists are absolutely guilty of. It's like arguing with a religious nutter... fun for a while, but fruitless.
Rob,I'm interested in you being able to follow through on a line of argument, not on what others are doing.
So far there is no evidence that you understand what you are trotting out.
You certainly are placing a lot of credibility on totally discredited information passing itself off as "science".
Your position on modelling appears to be based statistical on models of probability, where randomness or chaos are the phenomena of concern: Not on the scientific method of model development to prove/disprove eventualities or arrive at principles and laws governing observable events.
And every time it gets too hard you get totally dismissive.
The zealots, like 2020, want to swamp you with so much information it just washes over and washes out.
I'm more interested in knowing why you believe what you do. If you think you are right, you should be able to base that view on much more than a "belief".
Having seen all this before, and seeing the usual suspects again lining up with the same ploys, it gets easy to work out what is really on and why.
Of course you are too smart to get sucked in. But not smart enough to prove you haven't been.
I hope you don't return to this thread and waste more of your valuable time - and ours, with more junk science, irrelevances, and dismissive statements.
SnakeScience 3 December 1999:
Vol. 286. no. 5446, pp. 1934 - 1937
DOI: 10.1126/science.286.5446.1934
Global Warming and Northern Hemisphere Sea Ice Extent
Konstantin Y. Vinnikov, 1* Alan Robock, 2 Ronald J. Stouffer, 3 John E. Walsh, 4 Claire L. Parkinson, 5 Donald J. Cavalieri, 5 John F. B. Mitchell, 6 Donald Garrett, 7 Victor F. Zakharov 8
Surface and satellite-based observations show a decrease in Northern Hemisphere sea ice extent during the past 46 years. A comparison of these trends to control and transient integrations (forced by observed greenhouse gases and tropospheric sulfate aerosols) from the Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory and Hadley Centre climate models reveals that the observed decrease in Northern Hemisphere sea ice extent agrees with the transient simulations, and both trends are much larger than would be expected from natural climate variations. From long-term control runs of climate models, it was found that the probability of the observed trends resulting from natural climate variability, assuming that the models' natural variability is similar to that found in nature, is less than 2 percent for the 1978-98 sea ice trends and less than 0.1 percent for the 1953-98 sea ice trends. Both models used here project continued decreases in sea ice thickness and extent throughout the next century.
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