Climate change another name for Weather

[Garpal Gumnut]

This thread is a great example of why its best to avoid threads like this.

The Scientific consensus is that, the ultra long range forcast is for
increasing GW and climate change...and thats what we have to
prepare for...it would be grossly irresponsible to do anything else.

The scientific consensus before Copernicus was that the earth was flat, right back to the Sumerians.

Many people lost their lives, fingers and appendages arguing otherwise.

There is contrary opinion about Weather, but it is discarded and devalued by the warmeners.

Science is ongoing, not fixed, as is the Weather.

gg

 

[Wysiwyg]

"being able to predict weather with modern equipment is helpful, however
the weather will be whatever it is, and that is what you will have to deal with."

Aint that the truth!

The Scientific consensus is that, the ultra long range forcast is for
increasing GW and climate change...and thats what we have to
prepare for...it would be grossly irresponsible to do anything else.

This so called global warming due to human existance need not be prepared for -- but averted.

What could we do to avert global warming?

Consider breeding less, use and create low emission/emissionless energy for heating, cooking, lighting and transport.

I wonder what people will think of us in the year 2500.Bloody fossil fools.

 

[GumbyLearner]

Here is an example of a weather pattern that has existed for hundreds if not thousands of years.

However, it has recently become a problem for people in North Asia because of industrial growth. Does anyone classify this as climate change?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Dust

It is also tracked by the US military command in Korea for health and safety reasons.

http://www.seoul.amedd.army.mil/sites/yellowsand/default.asp

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

I wonder what people will think of us in the year 2500.Bloody fossil fools.

They'll be asking questions alright and not just on this topic.

 

[wayneL]

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index....ecord_id=2158072e-802a-23ad-45f0-274616db87e6

UN Blowback: More Than 650 International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming Claims

Study: Half of warming due to Sun! –Sea Levels Fail to Rise? - Warming Fears in 'Dustbin of History'

POZNAN, Poland - The UN global warming conference currently underway in Poland is about to face a serious challenge from over 650 dissenting scientists from around the globe who are criticizing the climate claims made by the UN IPCC and former Vice President Al Gore. Set for release this week, a newly updated U.S. Senate Minority Report features the dissenting voices of over 650 international scientists, many current and former UN IPCC scientists, who have now turned against the UN. The report has added about 250 scientists (and growing) in 2008 to the over 400 scientists who spoke out in 2007. The over 650 dissenting scientists are more than 12 times the number of UN scientists (52) who authored the media hyped IPCC 2007 Summary for Policymakers.

 

[wayneL]

OOOOOOPPS!

Seems it's the coldest year in yonks.

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/dec/10/global-warming-freeze/

Where I live, we had snow in both October and November. On Sunday, there was frost on the ground ALL DAY; the ground in some places frozen solid.

Today we took our Jack Rascal for a walk around Pittville Lake, as we do every day. The Lake was iced over. These are all apparently rare occurrences in and of themselves for this area, but the yocals say they can't remember it EVER happening prior to January.

It's currently only 9:00 PM and though it hasn't snowed, everything outside is white from a thick layer of frost.

Maybe we'll get a White Christmas. That would be nice. I've asked Santa for a warm pair of gloves.

 

[OzWaveGuy]

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index....ecord_id=2158072e-802a-23ad-45f0-274616db87e6

Agreed.

Not only have the Climate Change 'scientists' been 'cooking' the temperature books so to speak, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/...-world-has-never-seen-such-freezing-heat.html

But the questioning voices of hundreds of scientists (which have always been there) are now getting louder.

This is not unusual to see in a bear market. People will start to question many 'beliefs' that were present in the bull market years, esp if it means higher costs (eg Carbon tax) that people are not willing to accept or believe is even warranted.

I'm sure more will unfold in this space as the bear market wears on.

 

[OzWaveGuy]

From
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index....ecord_id=2158072e-802a-23ad-45f0-274616db87e6

“The models and forecasts of the UN IPCC "are incorrect because they only are based on mathematical models and presented results at scenarios that do not include, for example, solar activity.” - Victor Manuel Velasco Herrera, a researcher at the Institute of Geophysics of the National Autonomous University of Mexico​

I was in a recent conversation with an IPCC member and we debated the impact of the sun on global warming. The IPCC stance was clearly "the SUN is a constant" and hence ignored temperature influence on the earth - which I believe is an incorrect assumption as well as bad science.

 

[explod]

Agreed.

Not only have the Climate Change 'scientists' been 'cooking' the temperature books so to speak, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/...-world-has-never-seen-such-freezing-heat.html

But the questioning voices of hundreds of scientists (which have always been there) are now getting louder.

This is not unusual to see in a bear market. People will start to question many 'beliefs' that were present in the bull market years, esp if it means higher costs (eg Carbon tax) that people are not willing to accept or believe is even warranted.

I'm sure more will unfold in this space as the bear market wears on.

Yeh, a conundrum,

what is wealth? life for your Grandchildren or money.

 

[skint]

From
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index....ecord_id=2158072e-802a-23ad-45f0-274616db87e6

“The models and forecasts of the UN IPCC "are incorrect because they only are based on mathematical models and presented results at scenarios that do not include, for example, solar activity.” - Victor Manuel Velasco Herrera, a researcher at the Institute of Geophysics of the National Autonomous University of Mexico​

I was in a recent conversation with an IPCC member and we debated the impact of the sun on global warming. The IPCC stance was clearly "the SUN is a constant" and hence ignored temperature influence on the earth - which I believe is an incorrect assumption as well as bad science.

Modelling has indeed integrated natural phenomena such as the sun and volcanos.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=S9ob9WdbXx0

 

[wayneL]

Modelling

A model is.... well, it's just a model.

However, what's real is real.

The IPCC's model is not real.

End of story.

 

[OzWaveGuy]

The IPCC use upto 14 models and 'average' it all out

Most models would account for the heat from the sun, including cloud cover, but accounting for solar activity and what degree of solar activity is another question.

The fundamental view from the IPCC was that solar activity was constant - which it is not. Seems other scientists are now raising this as a major issue that needs consideration - sounds reasonable to me.

 

[skint]

A model is.... well, it's just a model.

However, what's real is real.

The IPCC's model is not real.

End of story.

Models are used all the time. They are used to predict the effect of interest rate movements, 5 day weather forecasts, the el nino patterns, fiscal stimulus packages, landing a spaceship on mars and a few squillion other things. Good models are able to predict, as is the case with the effect of global warming on climate change. As the models become more accurate, we're discovering they have understated the effects on climate change, if anything. Describing an unseasonally chilly day displays your lack of understanding on the matter. It's an unseasonally cool one here in Sydney also. So what? Doesn't change the fact that globally, the world is warming, when viewed holistically. Most of the ostriches even recognise the reality of a world heating up. They tend to be in denial, moreover regarding the contribution of anthropogenic factors. The graph on youtube shows that without factoring in human activity, the increases in temperature do not make sense. Factor in that activity and it fits like a glove.
"End of story".

 

[spooly74]

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!

Chapter1, p97, 2001 IPCC Report.

 

[wayneL]

Factor in that activity and it fits like a glove.
"End of story".

I would hate to see your gloves.

Please review these quotes from the current IPCC conference in Poznan Poland. Not oil or tobacco lobbyists, but real scientists... making a total idiot out of that @sshole, George Monbiot.

“I am a skeptic…Global warming has become a new religion.”

“Since I am no longer affiliated with any organization nor receiving any funding, I can speak quite frankly….As a scientist I remain skeptical.”

"Warming fears are the “worst scientific scandal in the history…When people come to know what the truth is, they will feel deceived by science and scientists.”

“The IPCC has actually become a closed circuit; it doesn’t listen to others. It doesn’t have open minds… I am really amazed that the Nobel Peace Prize has been given on scientifically incorrect conclusions by people who are not geologists,”

“The models and forecasts of the UN IPCC "are incorrect because they only are based on mathematical models and presented results at scenarios that do not include, for example, solar activity.”

“It is a blatant lie put forth in the media that makes it seem there is only a fringe of scientists who don’t buy into anthropogenic global warming.”

“Even doubling or tripling the amount of carbon dioxide will virtually have little impact, as water vapour and water condensed on particles as clouds dominate the worldwide scene and always will.”

“After reading [UN IPCC chairman] Pachauri's asinine comment [comparing skeptics to] Flat Earthers, it's hard to remain quiet.”

“For how many years must the planet cool before we begin to understand that the planet is not warming? For how many years must cooling go on?"

“Gore prompted me to start delving into the science again and I quickly found myself solidly in the skeptic camp…Climate models can at best be useful for explaining climate changes after the fact.”

“Many [scientists] are now searching for a way to back out quietly (from promoting warming fears), without having their professional careers ruined.”

“Creating an ideology pegged to carbon dioxide is a dangerous nonsense…The present alarm on climate change is an instrument of social control, a pretext for major businesses and political battle. It became an ideology, which is concerning.”

“CO2 emissions make absolutely no difference one way or another….Every scientist knows this, but it doesn’t pay to say so…Global warming, as a politicalvehicle, keeps Europeans in the driver’s seat and developing nations walking barefoot.”

 

[explod]

I would hate to see your gloves.

Please review these quotes from the current IPCC conference in Poznan Poland. Not oil or tobacco lobbyists, but real scientists... making a total idiot out of that @sshole, George Monbiot.

The word skeptical indicates a certain amount of uncertainty. Some of the scientists have been so busy gaining letters and writing books (probably to make money) that I would be skeptical of their conclusions. Having been among academia I am aware that some have to rub the system the right way to get there.

For our granchindren we cannot offord to sit on the fence, we are gambling with thier future. There are cleaner alternatives to the fossil fuel regime and with the same subsidies would be cheaper.

 

[wayneL]

The word skeptical indicates a certain amount of uncertainty. Some of the scientists have been so busy gaining letters and writing books (probably to make money) that I would be skeptical of their conclusions. Having been among academia I am aware that some have to rub the system the right way to get there.

For our granchindren we cannot offord to sit on the fence, we are gambling with thier future. There are cleaner alternatives to the fossil fuel regime and with the same subsidies would be cheaper.

Agreed.

But my consistent argument is that the AGWH religion draws attention from other "real" and urgent matters.

If you love your grandchildren, focus on the other myriad of environmental catastrophes and stop shadow boxing against the nonsense of co2 induced GW. If approached in this way, co2, if a factor in CC, will reduce as well.

Fretting about co2 emissions exclusively will do absolutely nothing for your , or anyone else's grandchildren.

And that's a fact Jack.

 

[Trader Paul]

..... and speaking of weather, here's some of God's handiwork,
in the skies, above Idaho ... a fire rainbow ... see pic, below .....

Closer to home, be alert for a big weather event on New Year's Day 2009,
around 119 degrees East and 21 degrees South (Port Hedland ???) .....
..... figuring on extreme heat and a cyclone, followed by a LOT of rain,
a few days later.

have a great day

paul



=====

 

[Wysiwyg]

..... and speaking of weather, here's some of God's handiwork,

Highly unlikely as in the bottom right hand corner of the picture (of light refraction into colour spectrum) is the © AP which is Associated Press.

 

[jonojpsg]

Agreed.

But my consistent argument is that the AGWH religion draws attention from other "real" and urgent matters.

If you love your grandchildren, focus on the other myriad of environmental catastrophes and stop shadow boxing against the nonsense of co2 induced GW. If approached in this way, co2, if a factor in CC, will reduce as well.

Fretting about co2 emissions exclusively will do absolutely nothing for your , or anyone else's grandchildren.

And that's a fact Jack.

Have to say that I agreewith you there Wayne There are indeed many issues on the environmental front that present major hurdles to our society continuing in any sustainable way. We need to keep our focus broad and look at ways to address all of them, including potential CO2 induced warming.

I agree too that once an organisation becomes so inward focussed that they call dissenters flat-earthers, there is urgent need for change.