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China on our doorstep

Thanks @Craton
PZ is becoming a rockstar of late.
A lot of punters and YouTubers quoting him and “Demographics “ has become a go to for content.
I’ve tried looking for the arguments against his big picture without much success but will keep looking. Of course a couple of butterflies could upset the narrative.


I have, however, found I sleep more soundly after watching one of his presentations, the future looks so bright, as payment to PZ for this service I have bought his latest book.
I’ll post once read- it may take a while though.
 
I would expect that given the rampant COVID in China, there will be a lot more deaths this year, and with an already falling birth rate, China may go two years in a row with a declining population.
According to that ABC article:
Long-term, UN experts expect to see China's population shrinking by 109 million by 2050, more than triple the decline of their previous forecast in 2019.
That's a decline of around 4mill per yr, it seems not a short term decline at all.

Geez, economically we punch well above our weight with a mere 26mill, imagine Oz sustaining 109mill.
 
As in the ageing thread now running,
... demographics is an interesting deep dive. Couple it with health, and it's a toxic stew.

Just reading this about Pakistan ...l5th largest population in the world.

(I reserve the right to go off -topic ; others seem to.)
 
Cheers mate, glad PZ is of some use to you.
Yeah, demographics is something we can all relate to quite easily. Coming or getting to grips with the "very big" picture is no easy task. Trick is having access to reliable info/data and double checking/confirming what is being touted.

I'm heartened that he mentions Oz as one of a handful of countries that will/should survive relatively unscathed, thus well may we say we live in a lucky country.

Peter isn't shy in admitting he has made a mistake either. Even he expected Ukraine to fall very quickly to Russia and has openly stated that fact in his vids. He later admits that like most of us (in the West), oops, I was totally wrong. He gets kudos from me on that alone.
 
"The problem with this era was that the winner was China. Beijing didn’t obey the rules of globalisation but reaped all the benefits of everyone else obeying the rules. It got the fastest economic growth of any big society in history. More than a million American jobs migrated to China. Beijing could subsidise any strategic industry, rig the rules of investment so that it got the intellectual property of any Western company located there, use the openness of Western societies to enable traditional and cyber espionage to steal technology and gallop up the technology ladder, all the while engaging in the greatest peacetime military build-up the world has seen."​

 
While I have occasionally been accused of veering off topic it would not appear to me that the mentioning the demographics of countries in the Indian subcontinent and comparing to China would fit the bill.

As for ageing, some health economists estimate a disproportionate amount of money is spent in one's last last five years of life, last one year of life and last week of life. Meanwhile the cost of care escalates and the newer treatments for diseases of ageing proliferate.

Young people here and in China are not willing to have more than one or two children. The cousins in Pakistan by and large have an inadeqaute health system for the majority of their population so maybe they are better prepared than China is for the demographic cliff.

btw Dawn is a very good newspaper for those wishing to veer.

gg
 
Peter Zeihan's prognosis for China is insightful and thought provoking. Video is 4.34 mins and Australia gets a mention.

Peter Zeihan is largely a "fact free zone" and has been for as long as he has had a YouTube presence. What he does get right are things which are obvious. But when it comes to matters of data and detail, he gets so much wrong by inventing information that it's laughable.
But let's look at this brief one's first minute for starters:
  • China's "complete demographic dissolution", as he calls it, is a baseless opinion. For example, if you compared Japan's 2013 population pyramid with China's 2030 forecast population pyramid they are almost identical. Yet that's almost 2 decades of difference, and Japan's economy today is far from the basket case that Zeihan is painting for China.
  • Equally baseless is his view about China's "economic collapse within the decade." It might happen if America continues to ban cutting edge technologies, although the opposite seems to be happening at present as China invests more to subvert America's plans. But China has relied on well implemented 5-year economic development plans over recent decades and Zeihan remains oblivious to this feature of its progress.
  • Zeihan's next claim, on Middle East energy dependence, is absolute nonsense. About 20% of China's oil comes from the Middle East. However, in volume terms, Chinese refined product exports - diesel, gasoline and aviation fuel combined (estimated at 6.5 million to 7.1 million tons) - are almost equal to total Middle East crude oil imports. In other words, China is only relying on Saudi oil for refinery exports and not energy.
  • Zeihan's next claim on the US navy making it safe for China to trade internationally is spurious. The world is not at war. Unless America chooses to attack Chinese merchant vessels there will be no problem! Anyway, according to Globalfirepower China already has the world's largest navy, as shown below, with rankings against 145 other nations for each class of vessel:
I only needed the first 50 seconds to show how vacuous Zeihan is, and to reinforce my point I might dig up a recent Zeihan YouTube video on EVs and post it in the EV thread; it's laughable.
 
China is getting a taste of the dance that is the African Country loan defaults.
from Axios
Being landlocked, Zambia does not have any ports for China to take over.
They are going to have to come up with something else.
Other African countries will be watching with interest.
Mick
 
wasn't it the plan all along?
Provide debt to poor buggers, debt they will never be able to repay, never even anywhere near, when deadline loom take control of the country
i remember something along that line when djibouti I think took a loan from China.
Being a former colony and french air force base, there were a few articles in France at the time, I read a few studies about that pending future.It did not even take 5y from memory.
Now Djibouti is a chinese naval base...they have no minerals,
-> for Zambia, their mineral resources are now chinese. full stop.
I am still waiting to see chinese protests in BJ by chinese gender studies students and psychology PHDs raging angainst Han imperialism and burning CCCP flag
ROL
 
I have to agree with Rob. A few of his videos on topics where I have people on the ground have shown he was talking out his ar5e on a few videos
 
I've only watched half of 1 of his videos and he was up in the hills in California, you know, the areas that used to be notorious for illegal dope growing ventures years ago before it got legalised as medicinal..
He reminded me of this character.

 
The latest farce that is the Chinese weather balloon, is getting murkier by the minute.

The pentagon has questioned the origin and purpose of the balloons.
From CNN
So they reckon it has a means to travel deliberately over US bases.

We now know that the Americans shot it down.
In pretty much standard Chinese response, they accused the Americans os seriously violating international standards.
from China has expressed its “strong dissatisfaction and protest” against the US’ shooting down of its balloon, saying Washington was “overreacting” and “seriously violating international practice,” in a statement from its foreign ministry.

Surprisingly, the Pentagon has suggested that this is not the first time that Chinese have done this. In later sections of the same article
The official said China had used these types of surveillance balloons for years and the devices had been spotted over five continents.
So how come we have never heard of these before?
And why did the US admin only admit to knowing about this Balloon when the media took pictures of it and started asking questions?

According to BBloombergs

The mysterious white object entered US airspace on Jan. 28
Its existence derailed a top US-China meeting in Beijing
They reckon they pentagon kept quiet about it as they did not want to derail the meeting with Blinken, but had to admit to knowing about it when local media started asking questions.
The Chinese are about as trustworthy as a used car salesman.
Mick
 
Weather balloon?

It was at 90,000ft. Anything above 60,000 ft is outside FAA control.

And note that modern balloons, unlike their WWII counterparts, have some control of their direction. The computers on board can pick the best altitude to choose the winds and get where they want to go, or come as close as possible. This is how they "steer".
 
Quite true, but not out of the Military control.
Gary powers was somewhere near 70,000 feet when he was shot down over Soviet territroy in 1960.
Mick
 
Why didn't they capture it, rather than blow it up? Do they already know all about them?
Not sure, but I suspect they were not willing to bring it to ground over use land area.
There would be some technical difficulties, at that height you cannot just send a bit of rope out to latch onto it, but I bet the yanks will be practicing how to do it. Perhaps sending their own balloon up to intercept it, I don't know.
Knowing the Chinese, it could have contained anything, and they saw no reason to take the chance.
Whatever intelligence gathering facilities it may have had will probably have sent the data to the motherland long ago.
It may be boobytrapped, who knows.
They can now send underwater robots to the area it came down in and search for radioactive decay, bilogical weapsn who knows what else.
Mick
 
According to NOAA, the balloon varied between 15,000 metres and 15,500 meters during ther latter part of its flight across the states.
Thats between 50,000 and 51,000 feet.
No wonder the civil aircraft in the flight levels were able to see it.
Mick

 
Some reality coming back to the world.

 
Some reality coming back to the world.

China have miscalculated with their aggressive approach in SE Asia. The Belt and Road debt trap is not working as well as they might have been expecting and may be pushing smaller nations away. Vietnam has been very important and now Philippines is turning back to the US it's going to be very hard to make a solid play for ASEAN support. Indonesia now comes into play as the largest economy in ASEAN and if they change their neutrality policy to one of even the slightest support of US/Australia through joint military exercises (which we already do on a very minor basis) China is definitely surrounded. In the end, geography is actually China's biggest threat. They're trapped.
 
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