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Cashless society

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Bellcose said:
It is a cause for concern for sure but I doubt it is feasible to go back due to the reliance. Water treatment plants, scheduling and control of transport services, health infrastructure and a hosts of other services are now dependant on digital infrastructure for delivery. You most certainly do not want to be on an operating table if there is a total infrastructure failure.

Think of any endeavour and there are risks associated with it. As you imply it isn't only about cash v digital payments.
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Of course, and I don't think anybody is implying that technology should not be employed.

The point is having contingency plans for when it fails.
 
divs4ever said:
but i do avoid air travel ( when possible )

i LIKE the scenery and checking out the rural economy as i pass by , but i do prefer the comfort of a Greyhound bus

taking my time ( since i am on a pension ) gives plenty of time for reflection and less stress ( from some crazy trying to blow up the plane .. not to mention the circus at airports )
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I drive long distances in Australia too, but I do find it difficult to get to the rural country side of Scotland without using a plane.

Also, those credit card points allow we to upgrade to business class on my way to Scotland, so even if a grey hound bus could get me there, I doubt it would be in the same comfort 😅
 
Craton said:
Seriously?
Mate that's just trolling. My point was that placing so much reliance on the digital infrastructure and a handful of companies supplying services like CrowdStrike, M$, FB etc was and is setting us up for a big fail.
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“Setting us up for a big fail”
 So what though? Say there is a big fail one day, we will make adjustments and get past it.

Even the Planes being used to take out the world trade centres and leading us into a 15 year war wasn’t big enough drama to stop us using planes, we just added more security, and planes are still safer and better than cars or horses.

What are you worried about? I say this as some one who lost a friend in Afghanistan, and has multiple mates carrying physical and mental wounds from the conflict, it doesn’t stop we wanting to have a airline network.
 
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Craton said:
Seriously?
Mate that's just trolling. My point was that placing so much reliance on the digital infrastructure and a handful of companies supplying services like CrowdStrike, M$, FB etc was and is setting us up for a big fail.
Click to expand...

Some people can't help themselves, even to the point of creating a new user account to try and fool everyone.

I'm starting to think it is a tool of the left political side, they put themselves up on a high pedestal and look down on us working class. Telling us but not listening to us. Pretty much why Trump has such a high following, people are sick and tired of being lectured by nobody's.

Take this thread, the majority of posters have been warning of what the possibilities would be if the electronic cash system went down, and how to protect ourselves by holding some cash.

And what do a few users keep doing? They resort to belittling tactics or tell us how much we're losing on missed Flyby points, and the 'chances of a... are....' But never do they contemplate that the majority may be correct.

As we the majority have pointed out many times. we know that a electronic monetary system is here to stay and is a handy tool, but we do not believe that it is the only tool. We believe that there is a place for cash and there will be for quite a long time.

Cash is King for a reason. On Friday afternoon it was proven. Cash did not fail, the electronic system failed across the world.
 
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Value Collector said:
“Setting us up for a big fail”
 So what though? Say there is a big fail one day, we will make adjustments and get past it.

Even the Planes being used to take out the world trade centres and leading us into a 15 year war wasn’t big enough drama to stop us using planes, we just added more security, and planes are still safer and better than cars or horses.

What are you worried about? I say this as some one who lost a friend in Afghanistan, and has multiple mates carrying physical and mental wounds from the conflict, it doesn’t stop we wanting to have a airline network.
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So what eh?
Simples. Expect the best, plan for the worst.
 
Craton said:
Expect the best, plan for the worst.
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Makes you wonder what contingency plans Defence has with its super computers, which are shared with the ATO. Mind you we plebs will probably never know as the costs are not in the budget papers.

And it is strange how people revert. Travelling around over the weekend and noticed, for all the angst, payments via EFTPOS still seem to be the norm. Small cohort of observations of course.
 
Bellcose said:
Makes you wonder what contingency plans Defence has with its super computers, which are shared with the ATO. Mind you we plebs will probably never know as the costs are not in the budget papers.

And it is strange how people revert. Travelling around over the weekend and noticed, for all the angst, payments via EFTPOS still seem to be the norm. Small cohort of observations of course.
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Re. Defence Dept. ASD and Amazon in cahoots.
From Australian Defence 4 July 2024.

Australian Government partners with Amazon Web Services to bolster national defence and security​

The Albanese Government will invest at least $2 billion over the next decade to bolster Australia’s cyber capabilities with the announcement of a strategic partnership between the Australian Signals Directorate (ASD) and Amazon Web Services (AWS) in Australia to deliver a Top Secret (TS) Cloud for the Australian Government.
This landmark partnership will see AWS establish a sovereign TS Cloud in Australia to deliver resilient information, communication and technology (ICT) services for the Australian Government, generating up to 2,000 local Australian jobs.
AWS is the world’s most widely adopted cloud computing service with a longstanding presence in Australia and specialist expertise in delivering classified cloud services that provide world-class security, reliability and resilience.
The TS Cloud will be purpose-built for Australia’s Defence and National Intelligence Community agencies to securely host our country’s most sensitive information. It will improve our ability to securely share and analyse our nation’s most classified data at speed and at scale, and provides opportunities to harness leading technologies including artificial intelligence and machine learning.
The TS Cloud will bolster the resilience of Defence’s communications networks and is a critical enabling capability in supporting the Australian Defence Force’s military operations, and will also support greater interoperability and deeper collaboration with the United States.
This partnership with AWS is a major investment from the Albanese Government and is another important step in implementing the 2024 National Defence Strategy.
This significant investment is part of the $15‑20 billion to 2033-34 to enhance Defence’s cyber capabilities and the $8.5-11 billion to 2033-34 to bolster Defence’s enterprise data and ICT announced in the 2024 Integrated Investment Program.
The joint initiative offers significant opportunities for Australian industry. It will see AWS engage Australian businesses to design and build the TS Cloud, driving innovation and job creation in cybersecurity, data analytics and cloud computing. Australia’s defence industry will see additional benefits with new opportunities to deliver and integrate new capabilities using these cloud services.
The TS Cloud builds on AWS’ planned $13.2 billion investment in Australian infrastructure to 2027 – the largest tech investment in Australia’s history, supporting the creation of 11,000 local jobs. This is in addition to the $9.1 billion AWS has invested in Australian infrastructure since its launch in 2011.
Quotes attributable to Hon Anthony Albanese, Prime Minister:
“My Government is bolstering our defence and national intelligence community to ensure they can deliver world leading protection for our nation.

“This important investment today will help enhance our national security capabilities while creating up to 2,000 local jobs.
“We face a range of complex and serious security challenges and I am incredibly proud of the work our national security agencies undertake on a daily basis to keep Australians safe. We must never underestimate their value and importance. That is what this investment today is about.”
Quotes attributable to Hon Richard Marles MP, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Defence:
“The Albanese Government is enhancing Defence’s cyber capabilities as a matter of priority under the National Defence Strategy by investing at least $2 billion to establish and operate a Top Secret Cloud platform which is central to achieving this objective.
“This cutting-edge technology will enhance Defence’s resilience, improve the ADF’s warfighting capacity, strengthen interoperability with key international partners and deliver up to 2,000 Australian jobs.
“This significant investment is a reflection of the Albanese Government’s sensible approach to prioritising the enabling capabilities our Defence Force needs in order to address the complex strategic circumstances we face.”
Quotes attributable to the Director-General Australian Signals Directorate, Rachel Noble PSM:
“This is another fantastic example of what we can achieve for Australia when the private and public sector work together in partnership.
“The Top Secret Cloud with Amazon Web Services in Australia will provide a state-of-the-art collaborative space for our intelligence and defence community to store and access top secret data. This will transform how we work together as agencies and partners.
“For ASD, this capability is a vital part of our REDSPICE program which is lifting our intelligence and offensive and defensive cyber capabilities.”
Quote attributable to the Director-General of National Intelligence, Andrew Shearer:
“The Top Secret Cloud represents a truly transformative capability boost for the National Intelligence Community.
“It will drive even closer integration, sharing and collaboration between agencies, greater resilience, and greater interoperability with our most important international intelligence partners.
“As program sponsor on behalf of the National Intelligence Community, ONI considers the Top Secret Cloud will help lay the foundation for a connected, modern and resilient intelligence community. We look forward to working in partnership with Amazon Web Services, the Australian Signals Directorate and other National Intelligence Community agencies on this transformative capability.”
Quotes attributable to the Vice President, Worldwide Public Sector for Amazon Web Services, Dave Levy:
“Amazon Web Services is excited to embark on this strategic partnership with the Australian Government, to provide our most innovative, efficient and effective cloud services to help Australia enhance its national defence capabilities and protect its citizens.
“This partnership will enable the Australian Government and its defence and intelligence agencies to securely share information, speed up innovation, and achieve their missions faster. We look forward to supporting the Australian Government’s mission of protecting and advancing Australia’s interests, and remain steadfast in our long-term commitment to Australia, helping drive innovation and improving lives for its communities.”
Quote attributable to the Managing Director, Public Sector, Australia and New Zealand, for Amazon Web Services, Iain Rouse:
“AWS is uniquely positioned, as a trusted, long-term partner to the Australian government to deliver on this important partnership. This critical national security initiative allows AWS to demonstrate our commitment to not just deliver a fixed set of requirements, but to continuously adapt, enhance and innovate together over the years to come.”
Click to expand...
 
Bellcose said:
It is a cause for concern for sure but I doubt it is feasible to go back due to the reliance. Water treatment plants, scheduling and control of transport services, health infrastructure and a hosts of other services are now dependant on digital infrastructure for delivery. You most certainly do not want to be on an operating table if there is a total infrastructure failure.
Click to expand...
The question is whether that dependence ought to exist.

Can anyone give me one good reason why a petrol station should need an internet connection and associated IT systems in order to sell petrol?

To use it for convenience sure, but to not have a backup plan to be able to function without it?

To have added a single critical point of failure that need not exist, with no workaround in place, is an unnecessary risk and one that wouldn't be accepted in most situations. Unavoidable points of failure yes, not much can be done about those, but not unnecessarily added ones.

Even in the entertainment business there's equipment redundancy to an extent. As with anything there are limits, but the aim is to minimise the chance of failure and have workarounds where practical. "The show must go on". :2twocents
 
Smurf1976 said:
Can anyone give me one good reason why a petrol station should need an internet connection and associated IT systems in order to sell petrol?
Click to expand...

Good question. Vapour recovery requirements and flow measurement being more accurate maybe. I don't know but someone actually involved in the industry might.
 
Smurf1976 said:
The question is whether that dependence ought to exist.

Can anyone give me one good reason why a petrol station should need an internet connection and associated IT systems in order to sell petrol?

To use it for convenience sure, but to not have a backup plan to be able to function without it?

To have added a single critical point of failure that need not exist, with no workaround in place, is an unnecessary risk and one that wouldn't be accepted in most situations. Unavoidable points of failure yes, not much can be done about those, but not unnecessarily added ones.

Even in the entertainment business there's equipment redundancy to an extent. As with anything there are limits, but the aim is to minimise the chance of failure and have workarounds where practical. "The show must go on". :2twocents
Click to expand...

Often software is run from a central location certainly maintenance systems are for multiple sites for manufacturing / mining etc, in the case of a service station I assume everything is linked sales, stock holdings, fuel rate usage for reorder of supplies etc image lots of Algos running for supply / delivery estimation and so on.
 
Bellcose said:
Good question. Vapour recovery requirements and flow measurement being more accurate maybe. I don't know but someone actually involved in the industry might.
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I would say: SaaS
If you sell a software at xxx dollars per unit, no recurring sales, people do not buy and install updates etc
No good for the share market, investors, sales departments.
The concept of Software as a service was born, and it requires permanent or semi permanent check of licensing, number of users etc etc and the software get disabled once you are off line.
It can be managed in a better way but in a nutshell, no internet, no software working ..
The more SaaS gets popular, the more such issue you will get
 
No one is arguing that tech isn't useful. It is however very stupid to do away with cash and its delivery systems with the age of AI and super computers. It's just lazy. Personally I think tech can waste a lot more time in many instances.

As for this digital age
Scammers are ripping about $2.7 billion.
A report from canstar had banks ripping off Aussies of $4billion in tap and go fees.

I do think we will reach a time where our laziness will catch us with our pants down.
 
moXJO said:
No one is arguing that tech isn't useful. It is however very stupid to do away with cash and its delivery systems with the age of AI and super computers. It's just lazy. Personally I think tech can waste a lot more time in many instances.

As for this digital age
Scammers are ripping about $2.7 billion.
A report from canstar had banks ripping off Aussies of $4billion in tap and go fees.

I do think we will reach a time where our laziness will catch us with our pants down.
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@moXJO I think that the term is "being reamed"
 
Went to the city for dinner last night with my wife. The place was buzzing and busy, food was delicious, service excellent, pricing was pretty good for two, but it would be a struggle to take a family like ours of 7 which includes partners.

Went to pay and asked the young assistant manager if they take cash, the look on her face was priceless. She started rambling on about how good it is to see cash, and she can't understand why some businesses refuse it. She explained how using cash is helping her and partner budget and monitor their spending habits. This from a person in their early 20's was very refreshing to hear.
 
I was just in a store that had a sign that said.

“If you are paying cash please provide exact amount, we don’t carry change”

That’s got to be another sign that businesses are moving away from cash, and not many people they see each day want to pay with cash.
 
Value Collector said:
I was just in a store that had a sign that said.

“If you are paying cash please provide exact amount, we don’t carry change”

That’s got to be another sign that businesses are moving away from cash, and not many people they see each day want to pay with cash.
Click to expand...
What I read into that is this store refuses or is too lazy and can't be bothered to carry a "float" for the till.

Moreso and probably the case, young staff failing NAPLAN and need a 100 fingers and toes to calculate the correct change. :rolleyes:
I get it that processing cash is time consuming but to alienate customers, seems plain silly to me.
 

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