Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Cashless society

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moXJO said:
No, you are not "thinking" very hard to support your argument. I was making an argument of the disadvantages of convenience tapping.Tap-and-go are about four times higher fees than EFTPOS by the way.

I'm not advocating for a return of cash. I'm saying "cash purchases stay in the local economy". Digitisation sends money offshore. Amazon, eBay, temu, shein, alibaba, etc all base their platforms around it.

People are more likely to save with cash. Know where they are at and know how much they spend. The primary beneficiaries of digital locally are generally supermarkets and restaurants/cafes. It's one of the reasons I went into restaurants given the trend of laz

Digitisation benefits are primarily of convenience due to the inherent laziness that's swept society. It does produce rampant consumerism for online behemoths.

I could argue that things like uber eats is another level of taking money from the economy.
Don't even get me started on kids buying "Robux" to buy digital clothes and avatars. Possibly the greatest scam in existence.

Letting cash die out will be a huge mistake in years to come. Letting banks ultimately decide is not the way forward. There are numerous disadvantages to digital that could also be crippling to the national interests.
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I get what you are saying, and agree digital purchases send money offshore, but so do cash purchases, because if people want an iPhone they are going to buy it regardless of whether they were paid in cash or not.

Digital purchases also bring money into local areas, for example a local people can sell on eBay or Etsy, make money of YouTube or any other thing.

And local people probably own Amazon in their super fund.
 
Well speak of the devil. EFTPOS down for 30 minutes yesterday that is a cost you never get back. For myself it's about 2/3 of total sales EFTPOS these days.

Fees are interesting I absorb all EFTPOS fees for my customers but I am no longer asked like I use to be "do you charge a fee?"
I am of the opinion that charging a fee just creates a barrier for customers but looking around I can see that this has changed in a lot of business, more so over the last 2 years. And I now see a lot more business using the EFTPOS providers that allow you to tap and they collect the fee while you take the money from your sale. Very high fees thought but all passed onto the consumer.

This would of been a loss of sales but now I just don't think people even look like they use to. People are so impatient that you can't get the amount to pay up fast enough for them to TAP! And do they look at what has been charged? Nope they just want to tap and go I could put anything up I really could. haha

Banks are being allowed to drop the ball. When I have to line up for change for over 30 minutes every 2nd day while only 1 teller is serving and 2 other people are trying to HELP people use the automatic teller machine or upsell products well.

At the end of the day cash costs me a lot more then EFTPOS. And consumers and the banks through the government in as well are all the driving force behind this.
 
bsnews said:
This would of been a loss of sales but now I just don't think people even look like they use to. People are so impatient that you can't get the amount to pay up fast enough for them to TAP! And do they look at what has been charged? Nope they just want to tap and go I could put anything up I really could. haha
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Fascinating observations there. I wonder if some of it could be due to time constraints. Cafe close to me and a primary school nearby. When I've been there I see parents dropping off their children, grabbing a coffee and then rushing off to work. Tradies too. One the phone and saying to his mate the schedule has changed as we now have to go to Bateman's Bay. So many variables I think it could be difficult to generalise what is occurring in a world of which I am removed.

Retired me is under no such pressure and can take my time.

Of course, I claim the rot started with the Bank Account Debit tax and Financial Institution Duty. Now in my day........
 
Value Collector said:
I get what you are saying, and agree digital purchases send money offshore, but so do cash purchases, because if people want an iPhone they are going to buy it regardless of whether they were paid in cash or not.

Digital purchases also bring money into local areas, for example a local people can sell on eBay or Etsy, make money of YouTube or any other thing.

And local people probably own Amazon in their super fund.
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If you buy it in store locally the money pays an Australian business, the employee who sold it, the company who transported it, all the tax along the way etc. The ecosystem spins it around. Yes the primary goes to another country though. But it creates a lot of coin here.

I'm not for abolishing digital as you would have to effectively become a Luddite (just not practical). But fully digital has a whole host of downsides that are playing out. Just the point where we are, there's a lot of negatives.

Amazon and eBay are basically drop shipping from China. They have copied many Australian products and inventions and taken profits offshore, sending the Aussie companies broke.

So while digital is great for a lot of things. There's a lot we have lost as well. I'd argue we are hollowed out consumers in a very beige nation.
 
bsnews said:
Well speak of the devil. EFTPOS down for 30 minutes yesterday that is a cost you never get back. For myself it's about 2/3 of total sales EFTPOS these days.

Fees are interesting I absorb all EFTPOS fees for my customers but I am no longer asked like I use to be "do you charge a fee?"
I am of the opinion that charging a fee just creates a barrier for customers but looking around I can see that this has changed in a lot of business, more so over the last 2 years. And I now see a lot more business using the EFTPOS providers that allow you to tap and they collect the fee while you take the money from your sale. Very high fees thought but all passed onto the consumer.

This would of been a loss of sales but now I just don't think people even look like they use to. People are so impatient that you can't get the amount to pay up fast enough for them to TAP! And do they look at what has been charged? Nope they just want to tap and go I could put anything up I really could. haha

Banks are being allowed to drop the ball. When I have to line up for change for over 30 minutes every 2nd day while only 1 teller is serving and 2 other people are trying to HELP people use the automatic teller machine or upsell products well.

At the end of the day cash costs me a lot more then EFTPOS. And consumers and the banks through the government in as well are all the driving force behind this.
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Customers don't even check their bank balances to see how much they have spent. They only ever check to see if they can keep tapping.

The banks don't want to make cash easier. As VC mentioned "it costs them. You have the bank in store charging fees to both customers and to you. Brilliant system.
 
moXJO said:
If you buy it in store locally the money pays an Australian business, the employee who sold it, the company who transported it, all the tax along the way etc. The ecosystem spins it around. Yes the primary goes to another country though. But it creates a lot of coin here.
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Yes, but I don't think paying digital affects that at all, thats a separate topic. As I said either way people that want to shop at a local shop will, and people that want to shop on line will, regardless. they will make their choice based on price and convenience not whether they get paid in cash of not.

Sure a local worker might work at Harvey Norman, but its also a local worker delivering Amazon packages.

And, as I said basically every retiree that has super owns a piece of Amazon, it's a global economy.
 
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bsnews said:
People are so impatient that you can't get the amount to pay up fast enough for them to TAP! And do they look at what has been charged? Nope they just want to tap and go I could put anything up I really could. haha
Click to expand...
Most people don't count their change you give them when they pay cash either.

I never used to charge pass on eftpos fees either, and I used to accept American Express, where competitors didn't, some of my regulars that were big clients used to spend $1000's with me because I used to accept American Express where my closet competitor didn't.

My competitor saved 3% by not accepting American Express, but lost $1,000's of sales that would have been about 40% profit margin, not smart.

Just before I left the industry I asked him if he would give good customers a 10% discount to secure regular business with him, he said of course, I said "yet you don't want to offer them the ability to use their American express cards to get rewards that cost you only 3%" he got the picture and signed up to American Express.
 
moXJO said:
Customers don't even check their bank balances to see how much they have spent. They only ever check to see if they can keep tapping.

The banks don't want to make cash easier. As VC mentioned "it costs them. You have the bank in store charging fees to both customers and to you. Brilliant system.
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I would like to know how much the IT infrastructure for digital payments has cost thus far. Yes it is capex vs expenses an occupy different places on the balance sheet, but it is an aspect that nobody is talking about
 
My business builds up a bit of metal that we pile up at the back, every couple of years we call in one of the bigger scrap metal collectors and they take it away, weigh it and bring us an envelope of cash. When I called a few weeks ago they asked if I wanted to be paid by direct debit, which will require some paperwork and a week's delay for the office to sort, or cash and they could come in few days.

Cash of course. It makes it so much easier to share around with my staff and puts a huge smile on their face.

I asked the manager if they had any issues handing out thousands in cash, "no" he said. He told me that they have no problem using electronic funds, but they also will actively help keep cash alive because they have "no trust in the bastards running the world". Sounded fair to me, as I accepted the hand delivered envelope.
 
wayneL said:
I would like to know how much the IT infrastructure for digital payments has cost thus far. Yes it is capex vs expenses an occupy different places on the balance sheet, but it is an aspect that nobody is talking about
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Not to mention the ever ongoing mitigation costs of cyber and threat actor attacks. I'm sure this was the reason I was recently inconvenienced with a particular bank.

So-much-so that when trying to transfer money (600 bucks) the other week to a new Payee and after receiving the 2FA code to authorise the transfer, I was presented with a notification that "...suspicious activity" had been detected, my account was "locked" and to call the bank ASAP.

No only was my account frozen but access to all online platforms including that banks phone apps was locked as well. FFS!

Rang the bank and after the obligatory wait, I had to prove that it was me trying to perform a legitimate transfer. After the 3rd degree and SMS code authentication, got that account unlocked and working.
All to then having to be transferred to a different dept. to sort out the other locked account. Repeat and rinse.

Took a long time and eventually was given back my access but, I couldn't use the phone apps that had, up until that time been working perfectly fine. At the apps prompting to call the bank yet again and after waiting far too long on the blower I said bugger it and uninstalled/deleted the apps.
Reinstalled the apps and spent more time getting those up and running. Luckily I have the info required at hand to get everything back working again.

Then last week I upgraded my phone, more app crap, lol, by now though I was a defted hand at setting up the apps.

For the non tech savvy it can be a nightmare especially when banking apps upgrade and these no longer work like before (as my partner can attest). I shouldn't laugh but it was with some amusement listening in and watching as she struggled with the over-the-phone directions after her bank app upgraded and she need to "reset" it to have access again.

No we don't use our phones for Pay or Tap and go but we do use the apps for account management and the occasional transfer.

Like me tell you that I really do appreciate the fact that and as we are with the same bank, when I transfer urgent funds to my kids, they have it in their account within minutes.
However, the rigmarole when it all goes pear shaped, yeah, I can sure live without that thanks.
 
farmerge said:
Before the flu wog overtook me a week or so ago, I managed to get a small seeding job done.
A nice brown envelope turned at lunch time today.
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Hi There, My name is Enrico Fabriro and I an from the Tax office.
We understand you have received a number of payments in cash for serivices provided to various clients.
I would like to remind you of your obligation to declare all such income in your tax return.
You can prepay your tax obligation by sending payment to
Australian Tacsation
099 696969669
Regards,
Enrico
 
wayneL said:
Going cashless costs, well, the cash.

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no problem the UK will be 100% ruins soon enough ( the baths won't be so special then) , i hope my rellies still living in Bath avoid the tourist industry , for an income

( 3 of my grand-parents were born in the UK )

they have worked so hard to create this mess for themselves , let them enjoy it
 
divs4ever said:
no problem the UK will be 100% ruins soon enough ( the baths won't be so special then) , i hope my rellies still living in Bath avoid the tourist industry , for an income

( 3 of my grand-parents were born in the UK )

they have worked so hard to create this mess for themselves , let them enjoy it
Click to expand...
Loonies running the asylum, yet again. ;)
Wouldn't it have been just as simple to make a stainless steel basket, to fit the bottom of the baths and retrieve the coins that way? Another case of muppets running a show, or another media fabrication.
 
sptrawler said:
Loonies running the asylum, yet again. ;)
Wouldn't it have been just as simple to make a stainless steel basket, to fit the bottom of the baths and retrieve the coins that way? Another case of muppets running a show, or another media fabrication.
Click to expand...
considering the UK military( as short-handed as it is ) is elbow deep in media manipulation it could be a combined effort



but stock up on the snacks it could be real entertainment ( that isn't Woke )
 

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