Cashless society

[Value Collector]

Also if any business refuses to take cash, I walk, even if I can (and do) use a card. I'm not the only one.

Consumer activism is becoming a thing,.

It works both ways, I walk if they don’t accept a card, because often I don’t have cash on me, I only carry a $20 note or sometimes a $50.

I think it’s a generational thing, I have a niece that got some cash in a birthday card, and she asked Grandma to take the cash back and transfer it to her account instead of getting the cash.

the younger generation don’t want to carry cash, they don’t even want to carry a card, they pay with their phones.

 

[Value Collector]

Cash in shops if they charge surcharges (aldi), direct credit for rates ATO and utilities charging for credit card. CC otherwise to get a few points or advantages

It’s can still be worth paying with card even if there is a surcharge. here is the math.

lets say a shop charges a 1% fee, on a $100 sale that’s $1, So you pay $1 extra but you receive the following cash benefits.

$0.76 - interest earned for 40 days @ 7% offsetting home loan.

$2.34 - frequent flyer points based on $23.40 per 1000 points.

So paying that $1 fee ( which not everyone charges) can potentially earn you $3.10 In benefits, not to mention saving you time visiting the bank.

 

[againsthegrain]

It works both ways, I walk if they don’t accept a card, because often I don’t have cash on me, I only carry a $20 note or sometimes a $50.

I think it’s a generational thing, I have a niece that got some cash in a birthday card, and she asked Grandma to take the cash back and transfer it to her account instead of getting the cash.

the younger generation don’t want to carry cash, they don’t even want to carry a card, they pay with their phones.

what a ungrateful niece

 

[Value Collector]

what a ungrateful niece

Not at all, she is very thankful and polite, but just asked nicely if she could have the cash in a form where she can spend it. she has things that she spends money on online, and it’s not like she can easily jump in a car and go and bank the money, she a kid.

Her Grand ma was happy to oblige.

but yeah, kids her age aren’t spending cash, they use their phones or cards.

 

[farmerge]

Fair enough for a bigger business. But my view is that one should still facilitate some cash transactions for a host of other reasons, for reasons that were pretty obvious recently.

Some businesses in the Perth Hills were unable to process digital transactions for several days due to a storm taking everything out, including the internet.

Then there was the recent Optus outage.

The potential for much longer outages remains a worry.

Bang on Wayne
We had no power for 6 days, no internet for 5 days, no mob phones for 3 days and no land line for 3 days The internet is still a bit wavy and slow and tends to drop out at times.
But I guess that is benefit of modern technology
Cash was the survivor when we were hit by the tornado.

 

[divs4ever]

Bang on Wayne
We had no power for 6 days, no internet for 5 days, no mob phones for 3 days and no land line for 3 days The internet is still a bit wavy and slow and tends to drop out at times.
But I guess that is benefit of modern technology
Cash was the survivor when we were hit by the tornado.

when the NBN went down for three days earlier in the week , the kind email informed me the NBN is 'an essential service '

.... just saying ...

 

[Value Collector]

I estimate in my little one man band, just card transaction fees on both the buy and the sell side to be close to 4.5k pa. Could be more.

Some of that is shared with others businesses on the buy side for sure, but still. Then there is everything else, which probably is best left unsaid.

One other way to look at it.

The business I used to be in was a franchise, but we there was another location suburb over owned by a different guy and we had overlap in the area we serviced.

I used to accept American Express which has a high fee (2.7% at the time ) but offers high rewards to its customers. The other location didn’t accept American Express. I had many customers that would choose to come to my store, often large business customers spending $100‘s or over a $1000 at a time, simply because I accepted American Express.

2.7% was a tiny amount to give up to secure good customers, when you think about it many businesses will offer huge discounts like buy 4 get the 5th free (which is a 20% discount), or spend heaps on advertising etc etc to secure customers, when all some customers want is to be able to use their Amex which only costs you 3%.

 

[UMike]

One other way to look at it.

The business I used to be in was a franchise, but we there was another location suburb over owned by a different guy and we had overlap in the area we serviced.

I used to accept American Express which has a high fee (2.7% at the time ) but offers high rewards to its customers. The other location didn’t accept American Express. I had many customers that would choose to come to my store, often large business customers spending $100‘s or over a $1000 at a time, simply because I accepted American Express.

2.7% was a tiny amount to give up to secure good customers, when you think about it many businesses will offer huge discounts like buy 4 get the 5th free (which is a 20% discount), or spend heaps on advertising etc etc to secure customers, when all some customers want is to be able to use their Amex which only costs you 3%.

When I had my restaurant I used Tyro. Pushed all the fees onto the customer.

 

[Smurf1976]

the younger generation don’t want to carry cash, they don’t even want to carry a card, they pay with their phones.

I get the point but I'll ask a question.

Scenario being the customer has eaten the meal at a restaurant, they've had their hair cut, they've filled a vehicle with fuel or otherwise obtained something that can't be returned.

They go to pay and their phone dies / runs flat or there's some other technical failure.

What happens next?

That I carry cash is substantially to avoid that risk. If the business' systems fail and they can't process a payment well nobody can reasonably accuse me of anything but if I'm the one with the card or phone that won't work well that's rather different, the business could reasonably demand that I offer a working form of payment. Cash is foolproof in that regard, it avoids a situation where I can't pay due to some technical failure.

Perhaps a reflection of my work background being well aware that electricity and communications are by no means bulletproof.

 

[Value Collector]

I get the point but I'll ask a question.

Scenario being the customer has eaten the meal at a restaurant, they've had their hair cut, they've filled a vehicle with fuel or otherwise obtained something that can't be returned.

They go to pay and their phone dies / runs flat or there's some other technical failure.

What happens next?

That I carry cash is substantially to avoid that risk. If the business' systems fail and they can't process a payment well nobody can reasonably accuse me of anything but if I'm the one with the card or phone that won't work well that's rather different, the business could reasonably demand that I offer a working form of payment. Cash is foolproof in that regard, it avoids a situation where I can't pay due to some technical failure.

Perhaps a reflection of my work background being well aware that electricity and communications are by no means bulletproof.

wouldn’t that happen just as often as some one forgetting their wallet, or thinking they had $50 in it but realising at time of payment they spent that yesterday on Kebabs?

I think the same risk level exists either way, But I have forgotten my wallet a couple of times now that had my credit card in it and been saved by pulling out my phone. You could even use your phone to do a direct deposit to the hair dresser or restaurant owner if needed Because the card terminal was down.

So I don’t think cash is fool proof, because sometimes people don’t have change to give, sometimes you forget you wallet, sometimes you aren’t carrying enough because you haven’t been to an ATM this week, there are lots of little weaknesses in both systems.

So far I prefer the pros and cons of cashless vs cash.

 

[Value Collector]

When I had my restaurant I used Tyro. Pushed all the fees onto the customer.

I agree that’s not a bad option, however Things have to be getting pretty tight if you are willing to risk losing some one not becoming a regular because you gave them a bad experience at time of payment over a 1% fee. 1% is a small discount to give to ensure a customer has a pleasant experience.

Especially because customers don’t get their cash handling costs passed on to them.

I used to work across the street from a pizza kebab shop that had a fee, but 50 metres down the road was another pizza shop that didn’t have a minimum so for 12 years I went to the other pizza shop, Also of course when my customers asked me which was better I pointed said “I always got to the Italian pizza place”

 

[JohnDe]

Cash remains king after Katter forces cafe to take $50​

Cash champion and federal MP Bob Katter has claimed a victory when paying for his lunch

Cash remains king after Katter forces cafe to take $50

Lunch is tasty but victory is sweeter for Queensland MP Bob Katter who forced federal parliament's cafe staff...

www.canberratimes.com.au

‘It’s the law’: Katter fires up in cash-free cafe stoush​

Firebrand Queensland MP Bob Katter has clashed with staff at the parliamentary cafe in an extremely on-brand – and bizarre – row.​

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Katter fired up after his crisp $50 note was rejected in payment for an order of fish, rice and vegetables on Tuesday.​

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“[The cashier] said, ‘we don’t accept cash’ and I said ‘well too bad for you, you have to, it’s legal tender and it’s illegal for you not to take cash’,” the 78-year-old independent MP told Sky News Australia on Wednesday.​

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“We’ve had a lot of anti-cashless rallies in north Queensland … it’s quite right we start the fight against cashless society; if you have a cashless society, the banks control your life.​

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“You can’t buy a loaf of bread without permission from the banks.”​

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Staff offered to give Katter his fish for free but he remained hungry for justice.​

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“I said ‘no, no no, I will stand here, and you will accept this legal tender and if you don’t you’ve broken the law’,” he said.​

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“The manager came down … and he said ‘yeah it is the law, we do have to accept cash’.”​

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An unimpressed Katter said cash was crucial when the power went out during natural disasters – as has happened across Queensland repeatedly this summer.​

 

[JohnDe]

I get the point but I'll ask a question.

Scenario being the customer has eaten the meal at a restaurant, they've had their hair cut, they've filled a vehicle with fuel or otherwise obtained something that can't be returned.

They go to pay and their phone dies / runs flat or there's some other technical failure.

What happens next?

That I carry cash is substantially to avoid that risk. If the business' systems fail and they can't process a payment well nobody can reasonably accuse me of anything but if I'm the one with the card or phone that won't work well that's rather different, the business could reasonably demand that I offer a working form of payment. Cash is foolproof in that regard, it avoids a situation where I can't pay due to some technical failure.

Perhaps a reflection of my work background being well aware that electricity and communications are by no means bulletproof.

I use both, the cashless system and cash.

The cashless system is handy and convenient, especially for large transactions, but it is a long way from perfect.

I always carry cash with me, and I have explained to my children about the benefits of being prepared. As adults, they always have a cash back up.

There have been many times when the cashless system has gone down due to an electrical issue, or a connectivity issue, or a software bug. It might not happen so often to cause major long-term disgruntlement, but when it does happen it affects thousands of people, maybe even hundreds of thousands down the chain. Whereas the person that forgets their purse or wallet can only affect themselves and the cashier waiting for payment.

Cash is King, not because of the number of people that use it but because when all else fails cash is real and visible.

“The meaning of cashless society is more about the way that we transact, it adds to the convenience of our day-to-day lives.​

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“There is always a place for cash but the majority will be making payments with digital wallets.”​

MP Bob Katter strikes a blow against Australia’s move to a cashless society

In a bold stand against the growing trend toward a cashless society, Federal MP Bob Katter has refused to stand down when his $50 note was rejected at a cafe in Parliament House.

Katter, the founder of Katter’s Australian Party, was left fuming after a staff member at the Parliament House cafe refused to accept his cash for lunch. Undeterred, he promptly demanded the manager review the legalities of such a refusal, insisting that it was illegal not to accept cash as it is considered legal tender.

The incident has reignited the debate surrounding the decline of physical money as a preferred method of payment and the potential ramifications of a cashless future.

Speaking to Sky News Australia on Wednesday, February 7 Katter recounted the confrontation, stressing the broader issues at stake.

“She (staff member) said ‘we don’t accept cash’ and I said ‘well, too bad for you, you have too, it’s legal tender, and it’s illegal for you to not accept cash’,” Katter said.
“We’ve had a lot of anti-cash rallies in Queensland… If you have a cashless society, the banks control your life.”
Katter went on to express concern over the increasing reliance on digital transactions
“You’re not able to buy a loaf of bread without permission from the bank, it is bad enough now but it will be infinitely worse,” he said.

“If you have a cashless society, you’re in big trouble.”

Despite initially refusing to accept his cash, Katter stood firm, demanding that the café adhere to the law.

“I said ‘no I will stand here and you’ll accept this legal tender, if you don’t you’re breaking the law’ and so the manager came down, he ran off and came back and said ‘yeah it is the law, we do have to accept cash’,” he said.

While some such as Katter are still pushing back against the move to a cashless society, the shift is seemingly happening much faster than expected with RMIT associate professor in finance, Dr. Angel Zhong pointing out that we could be doing away with cash by the end of the decade.

“The shift towards a cashless society in Australia isn’t just a possibility, it’s already well underway,” Zhong explained in a piece for The Conversation.

“The convenience of digital transactions has become irresistible for consumers and businesses and has led to the sector eclipsing traditional payment methods.”

A recent report from the Australian Banking Association shed light on the fast-growing popularity of digital payments.

Payments through digital wallets on smartphones and watches have surged from $746 million in 2018 to over $93 billion in 2022. Cash now makes up only 13 per cent of payments in Australia, down from 70 per cent in 2007.

Digital wallets are a hit across age groups, with two-thirds of Australians aged 18 to 29 making purchases using them. Surprisingly, about 40 per cent of Australians feel comfortable leaving home without physical wallets or cards, as long as they have their mobile devices with digital wallets.

Despite the digital shift, some reassurance comes from experts like Zhong, who emphasises that cash won’t vanish entirely.

“It doesn’t mean that there’s no bank notes at all. No one should be panicking that your banknotes will no longer carry value,” she told Nine News.

“If you look at the statistics about banknotes in circulation, it actually remains at around 20 per cent, according to the report, over the years.

“The meaning of cashless society is more about the way that we transact, it adds to the convenience of our day-to-day lives.

“There is always a place for cash but the majority will be making payments with digital wallets.”

 

[JohnDe]

PS. I've never been offered a discount for paying with a credit or debit card.

 

[wayneL]

To @Smurf1976 's point, Vodafail was apparently down all of yesterday.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

‘Fake’ cash warning for expected influx during Lunar New Year celebrations | Australian Federal Police

A cash resurgence in coming weeks may not be all it seems, with the AFP warning retailers to be alert to a potential surge of counterfeit currency in the lead-up to Chinese New Year celebrations. *** Audio from from AFP Detective Sergeant Peter Comatas available via Hightail ***

www.afp.gov.au

 

[divs4ever]

‘Fake’ cash warning for expected influx during Lunar New Year celebrations | Australian Federal Police

A cash resurgence in coming weeks may not be all it seems, with the AFP warning retailers to be alert to a potential surge of counterfeit currency in the lead-up to Chinese New Year celebrations. *** Audio from from AFP Detective Sergeant Peter Comatas available via Hightail ***

www.afp.gov.au

makes a change from scam electronic invoices and straight blackmail via the web

 

[farmerge]

makes a change from scam electronic invoices and straight blackmail via the web

No doubt many will be caught out.

 

[divs4ever]

No doubt many will be caught out.

lucky for me , i don't have many of the accounts they try to block me out of

and the 'i known what you do on when watching the computer ' one ... well the second thing i do with every new laptop , six inches of heavy cloth tape across the camera , not even one of those fake-face thingys

 

[JohnDe]

From a young age I was taught that nothing is free in this world, someone or something must pay the price in the end.

Credit cards and loyalty programs that offer free and discount are lies.

The Cost of Loyalty Programs - ABC listen

How airlines have transitioned to financial institutions and data gathering businesses that just happen to have planes.

www.abc.net.au