Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Cashless society

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fergee said:
I was talking to an ex banker here in Japan a couple of weeks ago and we were talking about the rapid adoption of mobile phone payments here like line pay and paypay. Its amazing how fast its getting adopted now I saw a lady pay for a 37yen radish with paypay today! He was saying to me that the government here is very keen to get rid of cash payments due to the amount of tax fraud here as most small business's run two sets of books. Also the banks will be better capitalised as theres a huge amount of people here who have safes full of cash in their homes. The regional banks could do with shoring up as well, from what I hear they are not very solvent.

The Japanese government is desperate for tax revenue, its the main reason for the relaxation of immigration. They need the tax revenue to pay for all the debt they have accumulated from all the older generation that they spent on white elephants. They are really stuck between a rock and hard place now its either get more tax payers through immigration or default on the debt ripping off the elderly people who basically built the modern nation. Interest rates will not rise here for another 20 years imo its just not possible without having the tax payer base to service the debt and Japanese people are not really found of immigration to be frank.
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Here is another reason the Government is pushing for cashless.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...e-life-of-andrew-mcmanus-20200311-p5495q.html
From the article:
Prominent Australian music promoter Andrew McManus was taking cocaine and sometimes a bottle "or two" of vodka a day when he agreed to lie to police by claiming a $700,000 bag of cash belonged to him, a Sydney court has heard.
McManus was later heard on phone taps telling his friend, crime figure Craig Haeusler, that he had "aced" his police interview. "Mate, I was a f---in’ Academy Award winner," he said.

The jury has heard that in August 2011 an anonymous caller claimed the occupant of room 3206 at the Hilton Hotel had a gun. Instead of a weapon, police seized an overnight bag containing $702,000 in cash in the possession of personal trainer Sean Carolan.

Amazing the amount of cash that is found alongside drug operations, even in suburban busts, there is usually a couple of hundred thousand found with the drugs.
 
.A cashless society means no cash. Zero. . It doesn’t mean mostly cashless and you can still use a ‘wee bit of cash here & there’. Cashless means fully digital, fully traceable, fully controlled. I think those who support a cashless society aren’t fully aware of what they are asking for. A cashless society means:

* Your child can’t go & help the local farmer to earn a bit of cash.
* No more cash slipped into the hands of a child from their grandparent when going on holidays.
* No more money in birthday cards.
* No more piggy banks for your child to collect pocket money & to learn about the value of earning.
* No more cash for a rainy day fund or for that something special you have been putting $10 a week away for.
* No more selling bits & pieces from your home that you no longer want/need for a bit of cash in return.
* No more cash gifts from relatives or loved ones.

What a cashless society does guarantee:

* Banks have full control of every single cent you own.
* Every transaction you make is recorded.
* All your movements & actions are traceable.
* Access to your money can be blocked at the click of a button when/if banks need ‘clarification’ from you which could take weeks, a hundred questions answered & five hundred passwords.
* If your transactions are deemed in any way questionable, by those who create the questions, your money will be frozen, ‘for your own good’.

And before anybody slams this post ... don’t go shooting the messenger .. I’m sharing it because maybe we all need to take off our blinkers. Forget about cash being dirty. Cash has been around for a very, very long time & it gives you control over how you trade with the world. It gives you independence.

If you are a customer, pay with cash. If you are a shop owner, remove those ridiculous signs that ask people to pay by card. Cash is a legal tender, it is our right to pay with cash. Banks are making it increasingly difficult to lodge cash & that has nothing to do with a virus.

Please stop believing everything you hear on the TV. Politics & greed is what is wrong with the world; not those who are trying to alert you to the reality.
Please pay with cash & please say no to a cashless society while you still have a choice.
 
Lantern said:
.A cashless society means no cash. Zero. . It doesn’t mean mostly cashless and you can still use a ‘wee bit of cash here & there’. Cashless means fully digital, fully traceable, fully controlled. I think those who support a cashless society aren’t fully aware of what they are asking for.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%, but i do think eventually it will be inevitable, it will be brought in through stages and it will change a lot of things.
 
makteb said:
We do not want a cashless society.

If we do, there needs to be a medium to allow detachment from society to give true freedom to a failed state/economy. Otherwise we are nothing but plugins to the world known as the matrix.
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Then today, you read this:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07...ons-in-cash-in-car-south-of-brisbane/12434556
From the article:
Police said Simon Andrew Cross, 37, was driving along the Pacific Motorway at Eight Mile Plains on Tuesday morning when he was pulled over.

The Brisbane Magistrates Court heard a search of his car revealed $1.75 million in cash stacked inside a suitcase and $2.61 million in a cardboard box.

Police said an investigation to determine the "origin" of the money was ongoing but they had charged Mr Cross with one count of receiving tainted property.

That is more money than most people save in their whole lives, it might be legit, but would you be carrying it around in you car if it was your life savings?
I don't think the cashless society will be brought about, by the tradie doing the cashie or mum and dad paying someone on the side, I think they are just collateral damage.
 
sptrawler said:
Then today, you read this:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07...ons-in-cash-in-car-south-of-brisbane/12434556
From the article:
Police said Simon Andrew Cross, 37, was driving along the Pacific Motorway at Eight Mile Plains on Tuesday morning when he was pulled over.

The Brisbane Magistrates Court heard a search of his car revealed $1.75 million in cash stacked inside a suitcase and $2.61 million in a cardboard box.

Police said an investigation to determine the "origin" of the money was ongoing but they had charged Mr Cross with one count of receiving tainted property.

That is more money than most people save in their whole lives, it might be legit, but would you be carrying it around in you car if it was your life savings?
I don't think the cashless society will be brought about, by the tradie doing the cashie or mum and dad paying someone on the side, I think they are just collateral damage.
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One way or another it would still get taxed and more than likely spent into the economy.

China could shut us down in a day if we went cashless.
 
moXJO said:
One way or another it would still get taxed and more than likely spent into the economy.

China could shut us down in a day if we went cashless.
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China could shut us down in a day anyway, they just buy up our companies, or pay extra and buy their resources from Africa and South America.
Having a biggest dick argument with China wont work, you might have bigger dick, but they will have a sharper knife.:D
 
sptrawler said:
It looks as though the $10k cash limit law has been put to bed, for now.

www.abc.net.au

The cash ban law is dead, but all over the world we're moving further towards a cashless society

A controversial law that would have banned payments of $10,000 and imposed two-year jail sentences on people using cash for purchases above that limit has been killed in the Senate. But it could be revived.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
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"For now" being the correct qualification.

Our dystopian comrades of the Labor Party have this policy in an iron long refusing to let die and be buried for forever.

A Labor government at the next election, should the Australian people be stupid enough to elect one, could, and probably would, resurrect this policy like a phoenix from the ashes.
 
The cashless society raises its head again, the central banks have been very quiet of late, regarding cashless.
www.smh.com.au

The future of money might be closer than we think

The Bank for International Settlements’ latest thoughts on central bank-issued digital currencies are revealing.
www.smh.com.au www.smh.com.au
From the article:
While there’s been a lot of focus on the language the Bank for International Settlements used to describe cryptocurrencies and stablecoins in a pre-released chapter of its annual report last week the more substantial take away from its paper lies not in that language but in the overall tone of its discussion of central bank-issued digital currencies.

The major central banks have generally adopted an ultra-cautious and quite leisurely approach to their investigations of the potential of central bank digital currencies (CBDCs) and have been dismissive of the implications of cryptocurrencies and other private-sector digital currency initiatives.
The BIS paper underscores how rapidly that stance is evolving as the Basel institution, sometimes dubbed the central bank for central bankers, takes stock of the acceleration in the real-world development of digital currencies
China is already running a domestic pilot project for the issuance of a digital yuan while also exploring the infrastructure requirements needed to support cross-border usage of a digital currency.

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Facebook, frustrated at the lack of progress in its attempt to obtain Swiss regulatory approval for it planned stablecoin – initially called Libra but rebadged as Diem – has abandoned that effort, shifted its operational headquarters to the US and changed the original proposal of a digital token backed by a basket of currencies to one backed by US dollars.

The Facebook-led consortium backing Diem plans to launch its digital currency, first unveiled in 2019, later this year.

A year ago bitcoin was trading at less than $US10,000. It peaked last month at $US63,000 before crashing below $US35,000. That still gives it a market capitalisation of about $US650 billion. The overall cryptocurrency market is worth about $US1.4 trillion, down from a peak of $US2.5 trillion last month.

While that volatility tends to underwrite the BIS dismissal of cryptocurrencies, and bitcoin in particular, as mere vehicles for speculation – assets so volatile can never be widely-accepted and legitimate media of exchange – they, and privately-issued stablecoins, do represent a large and growing unregulated sliver of the monetary system.

They can be used for money-laundering, tax evasion, criminal and terrorist transactions and, if not regulated and countered, could eventually have implications for the liquidity and stability of the global financial system.
The newfound seriousness with which previously-complacent central bankers are taking those threats was reinforced earlier this year when the UK announced it had created a taskforce to explore the potential of a Bank of England-issued digital currency – a “Britcoin” – to protect the pound against cryptocurrencies and improve the UK payment system.

The BIS appears particularly concerned about the potential for Big Tech to leverage their customer data and network effects to drive acceptance of their cryptocurrencies and entrench their market power.
It cites China’s experience (which led to a major crackdown on its tech sector and helped fast-track the development of the digital yuan), where two big tech companies – Tencent and Alipay – account for 94 per cent of the mobile payment market.

Having recognised that if they don’t respond to the emergence of digital currencies with their own versions and that a critical public interest issue is who will own and have access to customer data – big tech, central banks or regulated intermediaries – the BIS seems to have moved past the question of whether there will be CBDCs to one of the detail of design.

The detail is vital. There are two broad options central banks can follow in creating a digital version of their currency. They can make it available at a wholesale level – issuing it to banks and other authorised institutions – with the existing institutions retaining ownership of the customers and their data.
Another, more radical, option would be to create retail CBDCs, effectively creating a digital version of physical currencies, and issuing them directly to the public.
Retail CBDCs would remove credit risk from the financial system, given they are a direct claim on the central bank and would probably increase competition and innovation but could create existential issues for existing institutions, like banks, that are reliant on customer deposits and generate massive challenges for the central bank in trying to administer individual accounts.
There are also question of data governance and privacy that need to be resolved before a CBDC is workable, whether it’s a wholesale, retail or hybrid version.
While giving a government agency insight into individuals’ daily financial transactions might be attractive to an authoritarian regime, it wouldn’t be tolerated in most developed economies.

The privacy and financial stability issues will shape the design outcomes and probably result in wholesale CBDCs that use existing financial system infrastructure to manage customers and their data, manage the credit assessments and risk-management and comply with anti-money-laundering and other regulatory requirements.
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The BIS favours account-based, identity-linked CBDCs with protections for privacy and security, although that would require a lot of flow-on decisions about the role of banks and other intermediaries and the vexatious core issue of access to the data.
By moving on from the leisurely “should we?” discussions of the past to an acceptance of the inevitability of central bank-issued digital currencies the BIS is helping to bring the future of money and the future financial system closer and dragging its generally reluctant members along with it.
A radical redesign of an ever-evolving but centuries-old monetary system – the first central bank was created in the 17th century – is looming larger and closer as the external pressures for change from privately sponsored and issued digital currencies intensify.
 

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