Buying shares with money you dont have...

[cutz]

what ya gunna do if that stocks goes into a TRADING HALT!

100K trade, ouch.

 

[jono1887]

100K trade, ouch.

true... but as we've established, it doesnt work.. comsec didnt let me place the trade in the first place without a deposit of some kind.

 

[nunthewiser]

true... but as we've established, it doesnt work.. comsec didnt let me place the trade in the first place without a deposit of some kind.

im talking ANY amount ............ if you cant afford to cover it , dont do it ..........

hey but your a grown up .good luck with it ...

 

[Kez180]

How much over your actual funds were you trading? eg say you had 5k, were you trading 100% more - 10k?

how much did you end up loosing? I was actually thinking of not in between days but just in the first 10 minutes of trading where the large fluctuations happen.

LOL, the gf banned you? sounds like you have an overpower gf ::
unless you blew the funds for your wedding or something....

I sold the car to generate some capital... then I lost that...

I had maybe $500 in the bank...

I had $2000 in 3 or 4 different shares all penny dreadfuls... (ZYL,MST,APG were among a few...)

I was buying about 10k-11k at once... if I lost I made up the difference by selling other shares as well...

 

[cutz]

true... but as we've established, it doesnt work.. comsec didnt let me place the trade in the first place without a deposit of some kind.

We’re talking hypotheticals,

It can happen say if you owned 80K of BHP no cash and tried it with RIO, don’t take offence just tossing ideas around to raise your awareness.

 

[adobee]

Commonwealth will give you the proportion of money and stocks you hold.. I am not sure of the % but if you ask them they will tell you.. I have had some recent correspondence / fights with them as I have wanted to make large trades quickly but they havent gone through for this reason which has enraged me when I have double the amount in my commbank account.. thus i have now opened a comsec cash account..

If you place the order on the phone they will usually take it..

If you place an order and dont have the funds you are asking for trouble.. As already suggested trading halt large swing etc.. Are you using a stop loss probably not .. and it can get passed.. If you are using large caps and you dont think they can get smashed your wrong and even if this was the case you are looking at what 1-4% returns max.. you would be better focusing on a trade of 10k in small caps on break outs etc..

If there is a trading halt etc and you get caught out the bank will charge you for fraud.. this will go on your criminal record and affect you should you ever plan to be a c.a , doctor, realestate agent, government employee, bank employee etc..

 

[jono1887]

Commonwealth will give you the proportion of money and stocks you hold.. I am not sure of the % but if you ask them they will tell you.. I have had some recent correspondence / fights with them as I have wanted to make large trades quickly but they havent gone through for this reason which has enraged me when I have double the amount in my commbank account.. thus i have now opened a comsec cash account..

If you place the order on the phone they will usually take it..

If you place an order and dont have the funds you are asking for trouble.. As already suggested trading halt large swing etc.. Are you using a stop loss probably not .. and it can get passed.. If you are using large caps and you dont think they can get smashed your wrong and even if this was the case you are looking at what 1-4% returns max.. you would be better focusing on a trade of 10k in small caps on break outs etc..

If there is a trading halt etc and you get caught out the bank will charge you for fraud.. this will go on your criminal record and affect you should you ever plan to be a c.a , doctor, realestate agent, government employee, bank employee etc..

well considering your making the trades out of money that is not your own... the % returns arent actually measureable - your ****ting out money out of no where if you get what i mean :

If there was a trading halt, it wouldnt last more than a week would it? all that would happen is i would get charged the $54 a day dishonour fee and interest on the amount until the halt ends and i can sell the shares.

remember, we are talking hypotheticals here... im not actually going to do it.

 

[nunthewiser]

If there was a trading halt, it wouldnt last more than a week would it? all that would happen is i would get charged the $54 a day dishonour fee and interest on the amount until the halt ends and i can sell the shares.

remember, we are talking hypotheticals here... im not actually going to do it.

ive seen trading halts turn into suspensions quite regurly actually and they can last YEARS

lol , good luck with it

another name on the asx walls of been and gone would be traders

 

[MichaelD]

ok, ive tried it and the order couldn't go through.. i need to place a deposit of some kind if i want to make a trade that large. has anyone been successful doing this with another broker?

100k, with 18k in the account

remember, we are talking hypotheticals here... im not actually going to do it.

Erm - you actually DID try to do it. Fortunately Commsec is a more prudent risk manager than you are.

 

[Chorlton]

Erm - you actually DID try to do it. Fortunately Commsec is a more prudent risk manager than you are.

Well Said..... I second that !!!!

 

[jono1887]

Commonwealth will give you the proportion of money and stocks you hold.. I am not sure of the % but if you ask them they will tell you.. I have had some recent correspondence / fights with them as I have wanted to make large trades quickly but they havent gone through for this reason which has enraged me when I have double the amount in my commbank account.. thus i have now opened a comsec cash account..

If you place the order on the phone they will usually take it..

If you place an order and dont have the funds you are asking for trouble.. As already suggested trading halt large swing etc.. Are you using a stop loss probably not .. and it can get passed.. If you are using large caps and you dont think they can get smashed your wrong and even if this was the case you are looking at what 1-4% returns max.. you would be better focusing on a trade of 10k in small caps on break outs etc..

If there is a trading halt etc and you get caught out the bank will charge you for fraud.. this will go on your criminal record and affect you should you ever plan to be a c.a , doctor, realestate agent, government employee, bank employee etc..

well considering your making the trades out of money that is not your own... the % returns arent actually measureable - your ****ting out money out of no where if you get what i mean :

If there was a trading halt, it wouldnt last more than a week would it? all that would happen is i would get charged the $54 a day dishonour fee and interest on the amount until the halt ends and i can sell the shares.

remember, we are talking hypotheticals here... im not actually going to do it.

 

[jono1887]

Erm - you actually DID try to do it. Fortunately Commsec is a more prudent risk manager than you are.

I did it at a price which was 20% lower than the market price at the time, there was very little chance that it would hit in the 20 seconds it would take for me to make the order and then cancel it.

 

[trillionaire#1]

ive done this with commsec ,buying and selling on the same day
they got paid a day late and didnt call me on it.
only problem was the shares went the wrong way and i had to quickly
empty my pockets to make sure i could cover the difference between
my buy/sell price.

note: use your own money , imagine if you bought the shares and that
company goes into an extended trading halt or drops massively in SP
can you find the money in the 3 days......

 

[nomore4s]

well considering your making the trades out of money that is not your own... the % returns arent actually measureable - your ****ting out money out of no where if you get what i mean :

If there was a trading halt, it wouldnt last more than a week would it? all that would happen is i would get charged the $54 a day dishonour fee and interest on the amount until the halt ends and i can sell the shares.

remember, we are talking hypotheticals here... im not actually going to do it.

You seem intent on proving to yourself that it is a good idea.

What happens if share goes into trading halt releases bad news and drops 25%+ on open and Commsec force closes your trade out on open because you haven't paid for it?

IMO you're taking on a lot of risk for not much gain.

 

[Julia]

You cant do it with NAB online. Has saved me a couple of times when I almost used the wrong entity (I trade in 3 different ones)

I've never actually tried to do it with Etrade but had one instance where I had placed an order on, say, Monday. Tuesday I changed my mind when it hadn't filled, cancelled it and placed a different order. The second order wouldn't go through. I wasn't too worried one way or the other, but it did seem a bit unreasonable and I'd have thought their software would have sorted it out.

 

[MichaelD]

well considering your making the trades out of money that is not your own... the % returns arent actually measureable - your ****ting out money out of no where if you get what i mean :

Oh dear. This shows some of the most spectacularly dangerous ignorance of risk I have ever read.

Want to trade with money that isn't your own? Here's what to do:

1. Develop a positive expectancy trading plan.
2. Once developed, you will be able to determine your maximum drawdown.
3. Double this amount.
4. Place double this amount again into your trading account as your trading float.
5. Trade your plan.

To suggest that the % returns aren't measurable is absolutely incorrect. In your example of 100K trades - you're trading with $100,000. You can work our your % return from there on that $100,000. If you decide you're going to trade 4 positions @ $100K then you're trading with $400,000. It's irrelevant that it's not your money - that's the amount of capital that you're utilizing on leverage.

Note: without a positive expectancy trading plan, trading with other people's money is just a faster way of losing all your money (or even more).

Oh, and trading 1 position with all your capital will also blow your account up.

Risk management + position sizing: learn these or the professionals will rapidly and efficiently take all your money away from you.

 

[Timmy]

Jono - lots of advice on this thread for you, but perhaps you should be thinking bigger than mere $100,000 trades?

Remember the old axiom: If you owe the bank $1 million and can’t pay, you’re in trouble, but if you owe the bank $1 billion and can’t pay, the bank’s in trouble.

I might make up a new axiom too: Join the financial elite, default.

 

[nathanblack]

why dont we get other "investors" involved. set up a syndicate where evryone uses there comsec accounts to buy shares with money they dont have. we will guarantee 20% returns, and if the shyte hits the fan, we flee to thailand.

im in if anyones keen to orgainse.

 

[Kez180]

Lol we could get into some serious market manipulation, can you imagine ASF in its entirety short selling a small cap...

 

[mrluva]

I got fined by comsec for buying 10k MQG when I didnt have money in account and I couldn't sell same day cos MQG dropped. Still managed to sell and make money next day but comsec fined me $59 for one day late payment.
I don't know what's my buying limit, I do this a lot but its always under 25K.
I wouldn't risk 100K.