Burma and Internet Freedom

[skating101]

you've got to be joking noirua

1. Telling monks to go and get a real job is like telling catholic nuns to get a real job.

2. You are obviously trying to compare this situation to Iraq where for the most part there were no mass protests in the streets, Burma is one situation where international intervention WOULD be appreciated by the local people, you wouldn't have to fight them every step of the way (as in Iraq), but as we all know the international community will do NOTHING because Burma has NOTHING to offer them. F*&k the international community, they never do anything in the pursuit of "freedom" only hidden agendas.

Bring on the pointless sanctions that merely impoverish an already impoverished general populace.

 

[noirua]

you've got to be joking noirua

1. Telling monks to go and get a real job is like telling catholic nuns to get a real job.

2. You are obviously trying to compare this situation to Iraq where for the most part there were no mass protests in the streets, Burma is one situation where international intervention WOULD be appreciated by the local people, you wouldn't have to fight them every step of the way (as in Iraq), but as we all know the international community will do NOTHING because Burma has NOTHING to offer them. F*&k the international community, they never do anything in the pursuit of "freedom" only hidden agendas.

Bring on the pointless sanctions that merely impoverish an already impoverished general populace.

Hi, Some Catholic Nuns do infact work, though their earnings have to be donated to the order they belong to. I take your point though, as most churches etc., rely on their members contributing.

The last World War showed that fighting in Burma is very difficult. Would you be ready and willing to fight and die for the cause?

 

[skating101]

Maybe I would not be willing (hence im not in the army anyway) but I would support sending troops there.

Unlike Iraq you would not have such a hard time keeping the peace once the democratic government has been establishing (especially with the HIGHLY popular Aung San Suu Kyi as president) there might be a small ex-military insurgence but remember insurgencies are generally fed by the general populace and seeing as the VAST majority of the general populace would be against any insurgence, it would not survive.

Burma is an open-shut case for a peace keeping force but as i've already stated the leaders of the western world will never think about it. China and India have too much vested interest in the country (keeping it poor helps their interests) and the rest of the world has too much vested interest in China and India.

Sorry guys but the entire "civilised" world is ruled by the dollar and hence "freedom" matters little (sorry for the cynical approach but I feel it is true)

 

[2020hindsight]

hopefully diplomatic pressure will win out - and eventually those idiots will see reason
half their budget spent on the army -
and no enemies - other than their own people

did anyone see 4 corners last night - brilliant ,
incidentally the opposition were encouraging tourists to stay away, because all the money spent ends up in the hands of the military - such horribly pathetic sights - apart from the people begging - land mines being used in the jungles against villagers - amputations being done by a band of good samaratans (roving doctors) who - sheesh - have to saw through legs with a grandised pocketknife then stitch it up best way they can - then run for their lives because the army has detected them

meanwhile a ray of hope. ... negotiations ... diplomatic action might at last be biting

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/10/09/2054203.htm?section=justin

Burma junta appoints negotiator for opposition talks
Posted 1 hour 12 minutes ago

Burma's military junta has appointed a deputy minister to negotiate with detained Opposition leader Aung San Suu Kyi on the regime's offer of direct talks, state television said.

Aung Kyi, a Major General who became deputy Labour Minister last year, would "make contact and deal with Daw Aung San Suu Kyi in the future," MRTV said, without giving further details.

After the largest anti-junta protests in nearly 20 years, Senior General Than Shwe, whose loathing for Ms Suu Kyi is well known, offered direct talks if she abandoned "confrontation" and support for sanctions and "utter devastation."

There was no reaction from Ms Suu Kyi's National League for Democracy to Aung Kyi's appointment. But NLD spokesman Nyan Win has said Than Shwe's offer could lead to talks about talks.

Analysts caution against optimism as hopes of change in the past have been dashed so often.

"It's too early to assess this gambit by the regime," a retired professor said. "It comes at a time of mounting pressure from the international community. We need to wait for further movement."

There has been no word from Ms Suu Kyi, 62, who has spent 12 of the past 18 years in detention and is confined to her house in Rangoon without a telephone and requiring official permission, granted rarely, to receive visitors.



The New Light of Myanmar, the general's official mouthpiece, suggested that Ms Suu Kyi would remain under house arrest until a new constitution was approved - a dim and distant prospect, according to most analysts.

It also gave short shrift to the demands of the thousands who joined last month's protests crushed by the regime.

"The three demands of the protesters - lowering consumer prices, release of Daw Aung San Suu Kyi and political prisoners, and national reconciliation - cannot be satisfied through protest," the paper said in a commentary.

"Now, those responsible are making arrangements to draft the state constitution and collect the list of voters," it added. "When the state constitution is approved, the fulfilment of the three demands will be within reach."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/10/07/2052769.htm
Burma tries to cool international pressure
Posted Sun Oct 7, 2007 1:00am AEST

Related Story: UN draft demands Burma rulers end repression
Related Story: Burma junta releases footage of Suu Kyi
Burma's junta has tried to cool growing UN pressure over its deadly crackdown on peaceful protests, seeking talks with democracy leader Aung San Suu Kyi and relaxing its blockage of the internet.

But analysts warned that the rare gestures offered by the regime appeared to be token efforts to stave off tougher UN action demanded by the United States and other western countries.

mixed results to calls for demonstrations
better results in London than in Asia
presumably life is still "cheaper" in Asia than in the west

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/10/07/2052789.htm
World rallies against Burmese junta
Posted Sun Oct 7, 2007 7:00am AEST

Protesters have taken to the streets around the world, in an international day of action in support of pro-democracy demonstrators in Burma.

Several thousand protesters marched through central London, after a global day of demonstrations failed to take off in Asia.

A rally in Tokyo was cancelled and one in Bangkok attracted only around 100 people. Dozens of Buddhist monks and women demonstrated outside the Burma and Chinese embassies in the Bangladesh capital Dhaka.

Around 250 mainly Burmese expatriates staged a march to the Sydney Opera House and around 200 protesters gathered in Melbourne.

"We are united in opposition to the military dictatorship in Burma. It's time for the regime to start reconciliation," said Sydney organiser Maung Maung Than, who called for pro-democracy leader Aung San Suu Kyi and all political prisoners to be freed.

Mr Than said the protests were also aimed at keeping up pressure on the international community to act.

"The international response is just getting started, it must get a lot stronger."

One banner at the protest called for a boycott of the Beijing Olympics in 2008, reflecting a view that regional powerhouse China should be exerting more pressure on the junta.

In London, after a delegation met British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, campaigners waving placards and wearing red headbands to show solidarity with detained monks marched to a rally in Trafalgar Square.

Police said 3,000 took part in the demonstration, but organisers estimated the turnout at 10,000.

On the way, they dropped petals into the River Thames and tied ribbons and robes to the gates at the entrance of the road to Brown's Downing Street office. Britain is the former colonial power in Myanmar, formerly Burma.

 

[2020hindsight]

http://abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/10/09/2055210.htm?section=justin

Burmese official quits junta in disgust after monk attacks
Posted 3 hours 53 minutes ago

A Burmese Foreign Ministry official and diplomat who recently defected says he can no longer work for a government which attacks unarmed monks.

Ye Min Tun is the first government official to speak out against the crushing of the protests in Burma last month, saying it was shameful and reduced him to tears.

"The incidents that happened in September are actually horrible," he said.

"I have never seen such a scenario, such a scenery in my whole of my life, that the Government is arresting and beating the peaceful Buddhist monk."

He says he made the decision to resign on his own, without any contact with anti-government groups.

His letter of resignation has been obtained by the BBC.

 

[2020hindsight]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/10/11/2057211.htm

Bush finds her voice in Burma crisis
Posted 1 hour 54 minutes ago

United States First Lady Laura Bush, who once maintained a low profile when it came to international affairs, has stepped into the diplomatic spotlight by becoming a top critic of Burma's military junta.

Ditching her meek, schoolteacher-librarian image, the President's wife has become increasingly outspoken against Burma's crackdown on pro-democracy protesters, and delivered mounting calls for the regime to step aside.

The new role is a marked change for the 60-year-old mother of twins, who has typically clung to issues like encouraging young Americans to read books, stay away from drugs and avoid early sexual activity.

With fresh authority in her voice in a series of interviews with major US newspapers this week, the first lady blasted Burma military rulers as "friendless," and said the junta had "only days to act" before President George W Bush's administration ordered fresh sanctions.

The Burma regime has sparked international outcry by cracking down on peaceful protests led by Buddhist monks in Rangoon, as armed security forces wielding guns and batons attacked civilians and killed at least 13 people.

"Today, people everywhere know about the regime's atrocities. They are disgusted by the junta's abuses of human rights," she told the Wall Street Journal.

....
"The President, of course, sees Mrs Bush as a tremendous asset and a very good spokesperson on some of these issues," Ms Perino said, adding that the couple is "united on this issue."

 

[2020hindsight]

How good is Amnesty
http://abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/10/14/2058986.htm

More people have been taken into custody in the wake of last month's anti-Government protests.

Amnesty International has called for more international pressure on Burma after the arrest of more activists there this weekend.

Four people, including the prominent dissident Htay Kywe, have been taken into custody in the wake of last month's anti-Government protests.

The arrests have come despite a call from the UN Security Council for the release of all detainees and political prisoners.

Spokeswoman for Amnesty, Catherine Baber, says the arrests should be met with more international condemnation.

"The international community must insist on concrete action from the Myanmar authorities to end the arrests and to guarantee the safety of all those detained, including access to the detainees by independent observers - and of course for the immediate release of all prisoners of conscience," she said.

"Because these detentions fly in the face of promises made by the Myanmar authorities to cooperate with the United Nations."

 

[2020hindsight]

My respect for Sylvester Stallone just sky rocketed. Always assuming it's not just to hype up the publicity for this recently released movie - still - in these cases at least - perhaps the end justifies the means

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/02/03/2153023.htm?section=justin

Stallone offers challenge to Burma junta
Posted 4 hours 8 minutes ago
Updated 3 hours 56 minutes ago

Not satisfied with slugging it out with Burma's military Government on celluloid in his latest Rambo film, Sylvester Stallone wants to go there and confront the junta face-to-face over human rights.

Stallone, who said he was gearing up to make a fifth and final instalment in the blood-and-guts series, said that media reports of his film becoming a bootleg hit in Burma, and an inspiration to dissidents, was a pinnacle in his movie career.

"These incredibly brave people have found, kind of a voice, in a very odd way, in American cinema... They've actually used some of the film's quotes as rallying points," Stallone, 61, said in a telephone interview.

"That, to me, is the one of the proudest moments I've ever had in film."

Residents in Rangoon said this week that police had given strict orders to DVD hawkers to not stock the movie - named simply Rambo. Locals said fans had "gone crazy" over lines in the hero's brusque dialogue such as: "Live for nothing. Die for something."

In the film, Vietnam War veteran John Rambo - best known for mowing down enemies with an M60 machine gun in the 1980s - comes out of retirement in Thailand to save a group of Christian missionaries from a sadistic Burma army major.

Stallone said that, rather than make a film about Iraq or Darfur, he focused on a lesser-known crisis before Burma suddenly grabbed the spotlight in September when the military junta crushed a pro-democracy campaign led by Buddhist monks.

Officials put the death toll from the crackdown at 15, but diplomats and aid groups say it is much higher and some media have reported hundreds - or thousands - were killed. "People finally got the idea of how brutal these people are," said Stallone.

Invite me, please
Stallone's movie specifically focuses on the Karen tribe of eastern Burma. UK-based Christian Aid says the Karen and other groups have suffered half a million cases of forced relocation and thousands more have been imprisoned, tortured or killed.

Many ethnic rebel groups have fought Burmese governments for more autonomy since independence from Britain in 1948. Stallone said he was in communication with some, and several former freedom fighters acted in the movie.

And he hopes the film can provoke a confrontation.
"I'm only hoping that the Burmese military, because they take such incredible offence to this, would call it lies and scurrilous propaganda. Why don't you invite me over?" he said.

"Let me take a tour of your country without someone pointing a gun at my head and we'll show you where all the bodies are buried... Or let's go debate in Washington in front of a congressional hearing... But I doubt that's going to happen."

Rambo opened last month .....Stallone said he was happy with what he described as "the bloodiest, R film (for) a generation" and hoped to make another.

"It will depend on the success of this one, but right now I think I'm gearing one up. It will be quite different," he said.

"We'll do something a little darker and a little more unexpected."