Border Security Rudd Weak

The Once-ler · 30 October 2009

Fishbulb said:
Aid is the problem, not the solution. And that is from the mouth of an African. If you want the source, it's easy enough to find. .

I've no doubt that aid is the problem. That's pretty much what I have said in my post. I said we should be giving them contraceptives, not food.

So if aid is the problem, what is your solution then?

Fishbulb said:
There's so much misinformation in the rest of this post, I'm overwhelmed as to where to start.

Who are "they"? I mean, who are these aliens that plan on infesting our societies and bringing us to our knees? Why the fear and loathing? Help me out here, I just don't understand this sort of attitude.

What is the misinformation in the rest of what I said?
Tell me what is not correct.

There are now a billion people in Africa. A continent similar to Australia with some wet areas, some dry areas, desert, savana, rainforest. Some good soil, but mostly poor soil. The place cannot feed itself now.

I was being very conservative saying Africa will have 2 billion in 50 years. Some figures put it at just 28 years. Africa had just 200 million 60 years ago.

Are you one of these people who believe in unlimited growth? Populations just getting bigger and bigger indefinately? There are too many ignorant people who don't have any idea of what's involved in growing food, the environmental limitations, water, energy.

We must get used to turning a blind eye to what's happening in certain places in the world, and more importantly, what going to happen in a few decades. There's nothing we can do now. Nature will fix up what's happening, just like it always has.

Happy · 30 October 2009

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/10/30/2728525.htm?section=justin
CRIME CONCERN FOR MARGINALISED MIGRANTS

A refugee expert says young refugees and migrants who feel marginalised in Australian society are more likely to join gangs and turn to violence.
Speaking at a symposium on refugees, Tindaro Fallo from South Australia's Migrant Resource Centre says newcomers often withdraw when they feel unwelcome.
Mr Fallo says it is important refugees and migrants can develop a balanced identity, that incorporates their own heritage and also the Australian culture.
"I think that when young people feel marginalised, they don't feel they belong in either their own culture group or the host culture, they look to be with people that might also be marginalised," he said.
"So we look at the marginalised in the Australian host culture, they could be bikies, they could be drug users, they turn to those groups because they share similar experiences."
Mr Fallo says there needs to be a more collaborative approach between state and federal governments when dealing with new arrivals.
"I see people 10, 15 years later and I realise that in some ways, we've let them down," he said.
"We provide a lot of intense support in the early period, and then move on to the next lot of new arrivals, and of course problems don't emerge until people start to experience difficulties and stress."

I wander if the same principle could not apply to non-immigrant youth we have already and are getting wasted, just because we are too busy to : "move on to the next lot of new arrivals"?

Everything our Government does is half-hearted:
"No child in poverty"
"No hospital waiting"
"No homeless"
"bla"
"bla"..........

Fishbulb · 30 October 2009

The Once-ler said:
I've no doubt that aid is the problem. That's pretty much what I have said in my post. I said we should be giving them contraceptives, not food.

So if aid is the problem, what is your solution then?

What is the misinformation in the rest of what I said?
Tell me what is not correct.

There are now a billion people in Africa. A continent similar to Australia with some wet areas, some dry areas, desert, savana, rainforest. Some good soil, but mostly poor soil. The place cannot feed itself now.

I was being very conservative saying Africa will have 2 billion in 50 years. Some figures put it at just 28 years. Africa had just 200 million 60 years ago.

Are you one of these people who believe in unlimited growth? Populations just getting bigger and bigger indefinately? There are too many ignorant people who don't have any idea of what's involved in growing food, the environmental limitations, water, energy.

We must get used to turning a blind eye to what's happening in certain places in the world, and more importantly, what going to happen in a few decades. There's nothing we can do now. Nature will fix up what's happening, just like it always has.

Once a population gets to critical growth, it destroys itself. End of overpopulation.

I don't believe in regulation of people - full stop. Except for the obvious; don't make me go through it.

"We" are not in charge of anything. The closest that anyone comes to being in a regulatory role on this planet is the corporatocracy. They call the shots, not your or I, not the government. Governments come and go, but our financial system remains. That must say something? If there's someone around to sell a product to, what does it matter who it is? Think about it.

The Once-ler · 30 October 2009

Fishbulb said:
Once a population gets to critical growth, it destroys itself. End of overpopulation.

.

Hmm. We seem to be agreeing now then. That's what's going to happen in Africa and a few other places in a few decades. We are better off just standing clear and letting nature do it's thing. No use letting tens of millions of refugees into this great land and stuffing us up too.

But our discussion started when you said that overpopulation was a crock?
So is it or isn't it?

Garpal Gumnut · 30 October 2009

Chris45 said:
Aiding refugees is the problem, not the solution.

If these people are such valuable assets, surely the best place for them is back in their home countries where they can work toward building better societies for their own people.

I'd agree, their own countries need more professionals, labourers and artisans.

All they do over here is fester their discontent with "the other mob" they ran away from, or with us because we don't like their particular culture or religion.

Rudd needs some cement mixture to harden himself up.

He'll be a one term PM if any more come flooding into Australia.

gg

Fishbulb · 30 October 2009

The Once-ler said:
Hmm. We seem to be agreeing now then. That's what's going to happen in Africa and a few other places in a few decades. We are better off just standing clear and letting nature do it's thing. No use letting tens of millions of refugees into this great land and stuffing us up too.

But our discussion started when you said that overpopulation was a crock?
So is it or isn't it?

Yes it is.

Because it will never happen.

No one is letting "tens of millions of refugees" into Australia. Where do you get this information from?

And, you've conveniently not addressed any of my other points.

Julia · 30 October 2009

Fishbulb said:
Yes it is.

Because it will never happen.

No one is letting "tens of millions of refugees" into Australia. Where do you get this information from?

.

Can you clarify if you want unlimited inflow of people to Australia?
i.e. that anyone who desires to come here should be allowed to come, regardless of whether they can support themselves or not, regardless of what they may or may not have to offer in terms of education or skills?

And if so, do you want to place any limit on such arrivals, or are you happy for all refugees or people who just think Australia would be more of a cool place to live than their own country to arrive with no limitation on numbers?

Further, if so, how would you suggest we accommodate and care for all these unlimited numbers, particularly if they have no means of support, do not speak English, and are not interested in working or otherwise contributing to Australia?

How will all these services be paid for?

Fishbulb · 31 October 2009

Julia said:
Can you clarify if you want unlimited inflow of people to Australia?
i.e. that anyone who desires to come here should be allowed to come, regardless of whether they can support themselves or not, regardless of what they may or may not have to offer in terms of education or skills?

And if so, do you want to place any limit on such arrivals, or are you happy for all refugees or people who just think Australia would be more of a cool place to live than their own country to arrive with no limitation on numbers?

Further, if so, how would you suggest we accommodate and care for all these unlimited numbers, particularly if they have no means of support, do not speak English, and are not interested in working or otherwise contributing to Australia?

How will all these services be paid for?

I'm not a politician. My wants and thoughts on the matter add up to nothing.

I approach this from a human to human angle. And so, turning people away that have gone through what many of them go through, seems hard hearted to me. Seems as if we're more concerned with our cushy lives, hanging onto them, and a "just us and no more" attitude, than helping out.

As for just opening the door and saying "Come on in boys" - that's not what I'm about either. I do, however, think that the very few folks that turn up on boats is nothing compared to the amount that turn up at airports and simply squat.

Here's a thought; instead of being small-minded and petty about refugees, how about changing the system instead? What if we said, okay boat people, you can stay, but here's the way it goes down.

You MUST learn our language

You cannot be a welfare recipient as a matter of course.

You must re-train if you have no skillsets that are of use to us

Etc

MrBurns · 31 October 2009

I'm sick of all this multi cultural BS, be very selective about who you let in or there will be trouble.
Try to emmigrate to Japan, no hope they dont tolerate foreigners at all.

mellifuous · 31 October 2009

MrBurns said:
I'm sick of all this multi cultural BS, be very selective about who you let in or there will be trouble.
Try to emmigrate to Japan, no hope they dont tolerate foreigners at all.

Maybe nationalism might be dealt a death blow by multiculturalism.

http://www.multiculturalaustralia.edu.au/

Could multiculturalism be the work of those who wish to dominate the world?

Could it be that 'boat people' are really welcomed by those who rule?

Could it be that us 'ordinary citizens' really don't have the control over our government that we think we have?

Is our government no more than a hand puppet for the world's ruling elite?

Heck no, not possible, just another 'conspiracy theory'.

Fishbulb · 31 October 2009

It's too late to be concerned with issues like multi-culturalism. We have to deal with it. You may not like it, but it is happening.

mellifuous · 31 October 2009

Fishbulb said:
It's too late to be concerned with issues like multi-culturalism. We have to deal with it. You may not like it, but it is happening.

I don't have a problem with multiculturalism at all - I just love indian food,
and thai, and mexican... can't handle that chinese stuff though.

Where would we be without multiculturalism?

Australia needed the whites to make australia what the original inhabitants couldn't, and multiculturalism will make australia what the whites couldn't.

Life has to go on.

Fishbulb · 31 October 2009

mellifuous said:
I don't have a problem with multiculturalism at all - I just love indian food,
and thai, and mexican... can't handle that chinese stuff though.

Where would we be without multiculturalism?

Australia needed the whites to make australia what the original inhabitants couldn't, and multiculturalism will make australia what the whites couldn't.

Life has to go on.

Agreed....

Except for the Chinese food bit

mellifuous · 31 October 2009

Fishbulb said:
Agreed....

Except for the Chinese food bit

haha... but, our views might diverge on the outcome of multiculturalism.

Sadly, the whole thing can't taken too serous.

This is one of those issues that has the potential to pit race against race, or religion against religion ... and there will be fracture lines and there will be conflict - that's why I just love living in the country.

My nearest of four neighbors is a km away, and quite frankly I don't care where he/she comes from.

It certainly won't be a case of everyone walking hand-in-hand through paradise.

Have a good one.

noco · 31 October 2009

MrBurns said:
I'm sick of all this multi cultural BS, be very selective about who you let in or there will be trouble.
Try to emmigrate to Japan, no hope they dont tolerate foreigners at all.

HEAR, HEAR Mr. Burns they are more trouble than they worth. The conflict of various religions around the world is the cause of many problems throughout the World and in Australia in the near future. Why do some religious fanatics try force their beliefs on the rest of the world. If you are not a Muslim, you are an Infidel and according some, you should be eliminated.

Pauline Hanson hit the nail on the head years ago and John Howard took up a lot of what she said.

I say put up the "FULL HOUSE SIGN", no more Muslims.

Garpal Gumnut · 31 October 2009

While I do not agree with many of the above posters' sentiments, I do respect their concerns and believe that they are shared by a majority of Australians.

Rudd has unleashed a torrent of refugees on our shores by his wishy washy policies.

The people smugglers are like snakes and impossible to eliminate.

The only way to eliminate them is by an assertive no nonsense approach by the Australian Government to the defence of our northern approaches, thus destroying their trade.

Oh if the capital were not in Canberra, but in Darwin, how easier would not it be for the proper course of action to be adopted?

Muppet politicians and basket weavers in the south have no idea of the proximity of Indonesia, Papua and PNG to Australia.

gg

Wysiwyg · 31 October 2009

noco said:
I say put up the "FULL HOUSE SIGN", no more Muslims.

What's with the religious bigotry pal. No more Christians, Buddhists or Hindus too or does that mean you have to get out of the country?

MrBurns · 31 October 2009

Wysiwyg said:
What's with the religious bigotry pal. No more Christians, Buddhists or Hindus too or does that mean you have to get out of the country?

You mean bigotry from from some elements of the Muslim faith ? Yes I agree it's terrible isnt it, they should leave.

MrBurns · 31 October 2009

Wysiwyg said:
What's with the religious bigotry pal. No more Christians, Buddhists or Hindus too or does that mean you have to get out of the country?

No , I think what he means is no religions that don't tolerate the Western lifestyle and have a propensity for violence.

MrBurns · 31 October 2009

Ths is all just talk, nothing will change, They could blow up the Harbour Bridge and some toss pot would say "now we mustn't overreact"

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