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Boeing 787 (Dreamliner)

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Hi,

Having worked on some of the earliest models here in Melbourne, I was disappointed to read that the latest problems are the wings. Fortunately though the ailerons (which are built here in Melbourne) and connected to the wings, haven't caused any problems - so far.
For those who don't know what the ailerons do, can do s by clicking on this link - http://science.howstuffworks.com/transport/flight/modern/airplanes4.htm

Boeing Co said on Friday that "hairline cracks" had been discovered in the wings of about 40 787 Dreamliners that are in production, marking another setback for the company's newest jet. The cracks have not been found on planes that are in use by airlines and therefore posed no safety risk, Boeing said, adding the problem also will not alter Boeing's plans to deliver 110 787s this year. However, Boeing said the cracks, which also occurred on the larger 787-9 model currently undergoing flight tests, could delay by a few weeks the date when airlines can take delivery of their new planes. The disclosure raised questions about repair costs and a possible minor increase in the weight of the plane, but did not seem to spell major trouble for Boeing, industry experts said. Wing-maker Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd notified Boeing in February of the problem, which arose after the Japanese company altered its manufacturing process.

Boeing, based in Chicago, said it immediately notified customers of potential delays. It said none of the jets potentially affected by the problem have been delivered. "We are confident that the condition does not exist in the in-service fleet" Boeing spokesman Doug Alder said. U.S. regulators did not immediately respond to requests for comment on whether they planned to take action over Boeing's wing crack issue. These delays prompted analysts to tag the plane with sobriquets such as
7-Late-7” and “Lateliner”.

If you wish to read more about this article and the one below then just double click on this link:-
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/07/boeing-cracks-idUSL1N0M425E20140307

AIRBUS CRACKS
Boeing's disclosure comes as Airbus emerges from a painful two-year program of modifications and hundreds of millions of euros of financial charges triggered by the discovery of cracks on brackets attached to wing ribs on the A380. Reuters reported on Thursday that Airbus had once again ordered more frequent inspections of the wings of the world's largest passenger jet after discovering unexpected levels of metal fatigue, this time during testing on a factory mock-up. The planemaker has asked airlines to inspect the wing's "spars" or main internal beams during regular major overhauls carried out after six years in service, and then again at 12 years, instead of waiting for the 12-year overhaul, industry sources said. An Airbus spokeswoman confirmed the discovery of unspecified "fatigue findings" on a factory test plane. "This will be addressed during routine maintenance inspections and the aircraft remains safe to fly," she said. Most aircraft undergo a regular pattern of checks from small daily ones to heavy maintenance checks every five or six years. Aircraft industry experts have known for decades that metal fatigue cannot be eliminated, but they have worked out a system for monitoring it backed up by mandatory maintenance schedules.

DREAMLINER.jpg
 
Aircraft industry experts have known for decades that metal fatigue cannot be eliminated, but they have worked out a system for monitoring it backed up by mandatory maintenance schedules.

It's much the same in other industries too. It's known that certain problems, and metal fatigue and corrosion are among them, will occur at some point.

So it comes down to periodic inspections to check for the early signs of a problem. Once a problem is found, then you schedule the work needed to fix it.

I don't know about aviation, but certainly in other industries there are good operators and some not so good operators. Some spot a problem, assess how serious it is, then either fix it straight away if it's serious, or if it's minor then schedule it to be fixed before it becomes serious. Others pile up shipping containers as a cheap "blast wall" next to machinery spinning at 3000 RPM and known to have cracks rather than fixing it properly. :2twocents
 
Everything is fine...until it isn't.
I wonder what car the people complaining about the 787 drive, and how that cars safety record compares 😅.

Yeah, but when you have over 1,000 planes of that type in the air, and they are flying every day for 15 years, on long routes and you have no crashes, you have to begin to think they are probably a safe plane to fly.
 
I wonder what car the people complaining about the 787 drive, and how that cars safety record compares 😅.

Yeah, but when you have over 1,000 planes of that type in the air, and they are flying every day for 15 years, on long routes and you have no crashes, you have to begin to think they are probably a safe plane to fly.
Maybe they are just lucky. If insiders say they are not safe im inclined not to ignore them. They could have a grudge against the company of course, but Boeing is so big they can pressure a lot of people not too look too deeply into their operations.

The 737Maxx saga shows that there are questions over the company's culture.
 
Maybe they are just lucky. If insiders say they are not safe im inclined not to ignore them. They could have a grudge against the company of course, but Boeing is so big they can pressure a lot of people not too look too deeply into their operations.

The 737Maxx saga shows that there are questions over the company's culture.
If there was an underlying problem, they have had years to fix it, and do you really think companies like Qantas etc etc would be buying them if there was known problems with them?

Any way I have flown on both the 787 and 737 max many times
 
If there was an underlying problem, they have had years to fix it, and do you really think companies like Qantas etc etc would be buying them if there was known problems with them?

Any way I have flown on both the 787 and 737 max many times
Airlines usually buy the cheapest option and trust the manufacturers to make them to a standard.

Like all mega industries there are lots of things going on that the public don't know about until someone decides to blow the whistle.
 
Airlines usually buy the cheapest option and trust the manufacturers to make them to a standard.

Like all mega industries there are lots of things going on that the public don't know about until someone decides to blow the whistle.
There is a lot more to it than just the cheapest, they want reliability, fuel efficiency, range, etc etc

But, if they thought planes had a high chance of falling out of the sky, they wouldn’t buy them.
 
There is a lot more to it than just the cheapest, they want reliability, fuel efficiency, range, etc etc

But, if they thought planes had a high chance of falling out of the sky, they wouldn’t buy them.
The 787 is a good plane.
737 Max is the dodgy one, and they aren't selling.
 
Well, I am not sure how you figure that, the 737Max is outselling the 787 and is Boeings best selling current model.

There is a back log of 6000 on order and they produce less than 400 per year, so that’s over 15 years wait if you order one today.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boeing_737_MAX_orders_and_deliveries
There is a backlog because they are having trouble producing them safely. Compare to the Airbus 320 with a longer backlog.
Airbus has a longer backlog. The airlines have to get the planes.

Year-to-date, Boeing and Airbus have delivered 175 and 323 aircraft compared to 266 and 316, respectively, during the first half of 2023. As of June, Boeing is 91 deliveries behind compared to last year’s totals to date, while Airbus is seven deliveries ahead. In 2023, in total, Boeing and Airbus delivered 528 and 735 aircraft compared to 480 and 663, respectively, in 2022. In 2023, Airbus won the deliveries crown for the fifth consecutive year.

The truth is that they can't supply the market. It is getting back on track but I will never go on a flight that uses the Max. Plenty of us around. If you are flying within the USA they are hard to avoid.
 
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There is a backlog because they are having trouble producing them safely. Compare to the Airbus 320 with a longer backlog.
Airbus has a longer backlog. The airlines have to get the planes.

Year-to-date, Boeing and Airbus have delivered 175 and 323 aircraft compared to 266 and 316, respectively, during the first half of 2023. As of June, Boeing is 91 deliveries behind compared to last year’s totals to date, while Airbus is seven deliveries ahead. In 2023, in total, Boeing and Airbus delivered 528 and 735 aircraft compared to 480 and 663, respectively, in 2022. In 2023, Airbus won the deliveries crown for the fifth consecutive year.

The truth is that they can't supply the market. It is getting back on track but I will never go on a flight that uses the Max. Plenty of us around. If you are flying within the USA they are hard to avoid.
They have delivered more 737max than 787 and have more 737Max on order, that’s my point.

The 737Max isn’t going anywhere, it’s just had teething problems, but they will work it out, it’s not getting canned.

Will the airbus competitor out sell it? Who knows, probably, I don’t really mind I own both airbus and Boeing and precision cast parts that makes the parts for both manufacturers. All I am saying is that the 737Max isn’t going anyway, and it doesn’t have to beat the Airbus to be successful.
 
Will the airbus competitor out sell it? Who knows, probably, I don’t really mind I own both airbus and Boeing and precision cast parts that makes the parts for both manufacturers. All I am saying is that the 737Max isn’t going anyway, and it doesn’t have to beat the Airbus to be successful.

Good that you eventually disclosed your interests, it gives us more idea of your potential biases.
 
Good that you eventually disclosed your interests, it gives us more idea of your potential biases.
Hang on I said I own both Boeing and Airbus, that basically means I don’t really care which planes sell better. I am just pointing out to you that the 787 is a very safe aeroplane, with a great record, and the 737Max will likely also develop a very good record.

Also, it’s cute for you to think that my comments here could influence the global airline industry 😅.

(But the way, my investment in Boeing and Airbus are just through VGS, so make up less than 1% of my portfolio, my larger investment in this sector comes from my investment in precision cast parts through Berkshire Hathaway, and they sell part to both manufacturers , So I really have no dog in the fight, I am just pointing out facts)
 
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@Knobby22
If you do want to see what a failed aircraft program looks like, look no further than the Airbus A380, the last one was produced in 2021.

The program as a whole only made 251 aircraft, and lost $ Billions. it’s a great aircraft to fly in, and impressive to look at, but didn’t fit the market.
 
Hang on I said I own both Boeing and Airbus, that basically means I don’t really care which planes sell better. I am just pointing out to you that the 787 is a very safe aeroplane, with a great record, and the 737Max will likely also develop a very good record.

Also, it’s cute for you to think that my comments here could influence the global airline industry 😅.

(But the way, my investment in Boeing and Airbus are just through VGS, so make up less than 1% of my portfolio, my larger investment in this sector comes from my investment in precision cast parts through Berkshire Hathaway, and they sell part to both manufacturers , So I really have no dog in the fight, I am just pointing out facts)
Well you are correct in some things. Boeing has a backlog of over 4,000 orders for the Max, so they have obviously convinced the customers that they are safe, unless they are selling them dirt cheap to get rid of them.
 
Well you are correct in some things. Boeing has a backlog of over 4,000 orders for the Max, so they have obviously convinced the customers that they are safe, unless they are selling them dirt cheap to get rid of them.
I don’t think any airline would buy a plane it didn’t think was safe just to save 10% off its purchase price.

But, we will just wait and see, there are over 1500 737Max aircraft in operation, and about 30 New ones delivered every month, if they are unsafe, they will show that, if the are safe, we will see that also.

It’s easy to see some negative headlines and let that taint your view for decades, but the facts will evolve over time and the track record is what counts.
 
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